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Mythos
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Postby Mythos » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:43 pm)

Yep yep. Pretty hard to try to prove propaganda.

This is another topic but I say few words about it here anyway. As we "all" know, all this got started from Soviet and Allied atrocity propaganda during WW2, in (Ilya Ehrenburg's Soviet War News, 22.12.1944). I dont know how many of you have read Dr. Joachim Hoffmann's Stalins War of Extermination, but in his book he documents how the Soviets and Ehrenburg made similar atrocity propaganda charges against the Finnish and the Romanian people as well, in the same propaganda medias (p. 200-202). Being a Finnish, I really laughed my head off when I read that we ["Finnish butchers":D ] were accused of a planned genocide against the Soviet people in the territories we occupied during WW2. :lol: :lol:
This was propably too ludicrous to be written in history books, which is why we dont hear about it. But anyway, this is another topic.

In this topic I have yet another "documentary" about the Nazis and Auschwitz that I watched recently.
If an 'alien abductee survivor' said it, it must be nonsense.
If a 'Holocaust Survivor' said it, it must be true!
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#ftnref355
http://moranen.blogspot.com/2008/02/aus ... leiri.html

Mythos
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Postby Mythos » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Apr 05, 2008 10:15 am)

Auschwitz, The Nazis And The Final Solution - E04 - Corruption

http://www.torrentportal.com/torrents-d ... filelist=1

Dario Gabbai – Jewish prisoner, Auschwitz, 1944-45 – described the dead victims after a gassing:
”And when everything stopped you know and they opened the doors, and I see these people I saw few minutes half an hour later before that they were going in, I see them all standing up some black and blue from the gas, no place where to go, dead.” (5:15 – 5:40)

Narrator:
”The ready availability of foreign currencies and valuables to pilfer was just one the reasons that Auschwitz was a surprisingly attractive posting for many members of the SS. Auschwitz was not just a profitable place to be for them, it was also a good deal more comfortable than fighting with their comrades against the Red Army on the Eastern front.” (12:15 – 12:40)

Oskar Gröning – SS garrison, Auscwitz – described the main camp:
”The main camp of Auschwitz was like a small town with its gossiping and chatting. There was a grocery ... There was a cantine, there was a cinema, there was a theater with regular performances, there was a sports club of which I was a member. It was all fun and entertainment, just like a small town. Alcohol played a big role there.” (12:45 – 13:22)

Józee Paczynski – Polish political prisoner, Auschwitz – described the brothel at the Auschwitz main camp:
”And so in 1943, I and many others were living in block 24 a. The block eldder came in and said 'We are moving out because there is going to be a brothel here'. We all started laughing.”
Narrator continued:
”But it wasnt a joke. It was bizarre but true. Block 24, just beside the main gate of Auschwitz was to become brothel. And the decision to make it happen had become from the very top of the SS. Heinrich Himmler had been considering for some time how to provide incentives to prisoners within the concentration camp system.” (41:24 – 42:17)

Among others, Christopher Browning, Robert Jan van Pelt and Franciszek Piper were listed as historical consultants for this documentary (miniseries).
If an 'alien abductee survivor' said it, it must be nonsense.

If a 'Holocaust Survivor' said it, it must be true!

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#ftnref355

http://moranen.blogspot.com/2008/02/aus ... leiri.html

Wahrheit
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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:30 am)

Very interesting batch of posts, Mythos.

Always nice to see when the documentaries on the "gas chambers" bring in their "eyewitnesses". For some reason, we learn things from those witnesses that were somehow skipped over (or ignored) by the peddlers of the myth. Of course, these new items don't mesh well with the physical sciences (bodies become red from cyanide exposure, and cannot hold it's own weight when dead, no matter how tightly packed), but such comes with the Holocaust territory.

Mythos
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Postby Mythos » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:03 pm)

Yes, exactly these kinds of testimonies I was hoping to find. :)

There are more episodes concerning the latter documentary miniseries I cited. That one was 4 of 6, titled "Corruption". I might assume that episode 5 of 6 titled "Frenzied killing" should be at least as interesting.
If an 'alien abductee survivor' said it, it must be nonsense.

If a 'Holocaust Survivor' said it, it must be true!

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#ftnref355

http://moranen.blogspot.com/2008/02/aus ... leiri.html

Mythos
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Postby Mythos » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:39 pm)

Although you should propably see the documentaries I cited fully yourselves, since many of these were isolated quotations. Some of these people being interviewed later told (of course) the usual atrocity tales and were sorry and terrified of being there, etc. So if a holocaust believer would watch these documentaries, he would simply cite other quotations elsewhere or from other people who were interviewed to demonstrate the usual atrocity propaganda claims (the less ludicrous and the ones written as 'holocaust historiography).

But anyway, when one has read much of the revisionist litterature and realises this being a hoax, then one reads these quotations with an open mind and sees the alternative (the real) viewpoint.

That information about the brothel was new to me. I didnt realise that it was Himmler himself who authorised it and I didnt know that it was an admitted fact.
Last edited by Mythos on Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If an 'alien abductee survivor' said it, it must be nonsense.

If a 'Holocaust Survivor' said it, it must be true!

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#ftnref355

http://moranen.blogspot.com/2008/02/aus ... leiri.html

Mythos
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Postby Mythos » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Apr 05, 2008 12:42 pm)

Hannover wrote:But the ever changing storyline says:

- bodies were piled high outside ... right, some 'trap of misconception'

- SS men beat & cut off breasts of jewish women as they were forced into the laughable 'gas chambers' ... right, some 'trap of misconception'

[...]

- depending on which forced confession or liar you read about, it's claimed that cyanide used for 'extermination' was: sent through showerheads, was in granule form, was a black tar-like mass, was a liquid, and now we have 'crystals' ... my my, so many contradicting, out of control stories for which there is no proof


Sounds familiar. :) However, I dont remember these claims... Where are these cited?
If an 'alien abductee survivor' said it, it must be nonsense.

If a 'Holocaust Survivor' said it, it must be true!

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndvalue.html#ftnref355

http://moranen.blogspot.com/2008/02/aus ... leiri.html

J William
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Postby J William » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:26 am)

Wahrheit wrote:
Of course, these new items don't mesh well with the physical sciences (bodies become red from cyanide exposure, and cannot hold it's own weight when dead, no matter how tightly packed), but such comes with the Holocaust territory.


I am aware that persons that die as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning turn a reddish color but I am not aware that HCN poisoning causes bodies to turn red. Is the above quoted red color actually a symptom of HCN poisoning? Thanks.

Wahrheit
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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:57 pm)

J William wrote: I am aware that persons that die as a result of carbon monoxide poisoning turn a reddish color but I am not aware that HCN poisoning causes bodies to turn red. Is the above quoted red color actually a symptom of HCN poisoning? Thanks.


Absolutely. You can check online for more references to it, mostly found in MSDS sheets on cyanide. Rudolf also mentions this, IIRC.

Here is one example.

Hazmat 101 News - August 2004

Hydrogen Cyanide Clouds from Cacao Beans Fire - an Urban Legend?
By Jetty Middelkoop
[...]

What is hydrogen cyanide (HCN)?


Where does the name "cyanide" come from? Its name does not
come from its color. Hydrogen cyanide is colorless--not cyan. Nor is it true
that persons exposed to it turn blue. What happens: their lips and nails
may turn a bit blue-ish, but their skin will turn red.
These symptoms are
caused
by an excess of oxygen in the blood--and oxygen rich blood is red. The
cyanide
(CN) in the hydrogen cyanide binds to iron, manganese and copper in
important
enzymes in the body to develop "iron blue"- a blue colored bond between
cyanide
and iron, manganese or copper. Hence, the name "cyanide".


http://groups.google.com/group/alt.supp ... d4f2594e21


Another area where the descriptions postulated by the "witnesses" simply are not supported by the sciences.

Laurentz Dahl
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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:06 am)

Wahrheit wrote:Here is one example.


Nice find.

I suspect the bluish and blackened corpses may derived from some real observations - but sights of decomposing corpses stacked up in morgues, rather than of victims of alleged Zyklon B gas chambers.

J William
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Postby J William » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:19 am)

[

Hazmat 101 News - August 2004

Hydrogen Cyanide Clouds from Cacao Beans Fire - an Urban Legend?
By Jetty Middelkoop
[...]

What is hydrogen cyanide (HCN)?


Where does the name "cyanide" come from? Its name does not
come from its color. Hydrogen cyanide is colorless--not cyan. Nor is it true
that persons exposed to it turn blue. What happens: their lips and nails
may turn a bit blue-ish, but their skin will turn red.
These symptoms are
caused
by an excess of oxygen in the blood--and oxygen rich blood is red. The
cyanide
(CN) in the hydrogen cyanide binds to iron, manganese and copper in
important
enzymes in the body to develop "iron blue"- a blue colored bond between
cyanide
and iron, manganese or copper. Hence, the name "cyanide".


This is , of course, a newspaper article and we all know about the veracity of some newspaper articles. After a definitive statement "their skin will turn red" the author goes on to explain about the blue colored bond of cyanide. Confusing to say the least.
A search brought up some information on HCN. In the first the author suspects the cherry red coloration is due to concomitant carbon monoxide poisoning . The statement about cyanosis( a bluish coloration of the skin, caused by the lack of oxygen in the blood) also fogs up the topic. The next link states bluntly that the skin is red.

Excerpts from www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic909.htm

Physical
Physical findings are nonspecific and are similar to those of severe hypoxemia.
• Altered mental status
• Convulsions
• Hypotension
• Transient hyperpnea
• Bradypnea followed by apnea
• Cardiac dysrhythmias followed by cardiac arrest
• Severe respiratory distress in an acyanotic patient suggests possible cyanide toxicity.
• When observed, cherry-red skin suggests concomitant carbon monoxide poisoning or high venous oxygen content from failure of tissues to extract oxygen. Arterialization of the venous blood may also be noted during phlebotomy or examination of the retinal veins.
• Bright red skin and absence of cyanosis seldom are described in patients with cyanide poisoning, most likely because of concomitant cardiovascular collapse. Patients may also present cyanotic after prolonged respiratory failure and shock.



Excerpts from http://www.emedicine.com/EMERG/topic118.htm

Physical: Physical findings are generally nonspecific, yet the onset of illness may be dramatic.
• Vital signs are variable.
o Initial bradycardia and hypertension may rapidly give way to hypotension with reflex tachycardia, with resulting final bradycardia and hypotension.
o Tachypnea may generally precede apnea.
o Pulse oximetry may be high and falsely reassuring (oxygen is present in blood as oxyhemoglobin but cannot be effectively used in oxidative phosphorylation).
• General
o Cherry-red skin color (reflecting absent tissue oxygen extraction)
• HEENT
o Soot in the mouth and nose after smoke inhalation, particularly if altered mental status and/or hypotension are present, suggests the possibility of cyanide poisoning.
o Bright red retinal arteries and veins (due to absent tissue oxygen extraction)
o The smell of bitter almonds on the breath suggests exposure (cannot be detected by 60% of the population).

Wahrheit
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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Apr 08, 2008 10:19 am)

J William:

The reason for your confusion is that the body color depends on the circumstances (lack of oxygen, physical injury, amount of cyanide, etc.) leading up to the death. Blue can occur, just like from certain instances of Carbon Monoxide poisonings, but generally the body will turn red from cyanide exposure.

From a MSDS on Acetonitrile:

In most cases, cyanide poisoning causes a deceptively healthy pink to red skin color. However, if a physical injury or lack of oxygen is involved, the skin color may be bluish. Reddening of the eyes and pupil dilation are symptoms of cyanide poisoning. Cyanosis (blue discoloration of the skin) tends to be associated with severe cyanide poisonings.

http://www.atmos.umd.edu/~russ/MSDS/acetonitrile.htm



On the newspaper, I don't see much wrong with his statement. Obviously if he didn't know, he would go to the correct sources to find out.


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