Treblinka

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Greg Gerdes
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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon May 05, 2008 8:47 pm)

Oooops, sorry about that mods, I kept getting an odd screen.

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Postby catleugh » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon May 05, 2008 11:53 pm)

grenadier - Hannover
I overlooked your answers. I was too busy answering questions, to notice that you had been trying to answer mine. Grenadier, your answer about the testimonies seems to ring a bell. I *think* it is basically what David Irving said about the trials in Nuremberg in his book on that subject. You have given me a lot to think about.
Greg Gerdes
I hadn't looked for a thread on here about the Hoefle Telegram, but think I might check that out next.

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 12:13 pm)

catleugh, check these out: (via Hanovers post)

- see here for a thorough debunking of the Hoefle Telegram:
'Irving's 'holocaust' lite / but what '2.4 million document'?'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4548

and

'Grubach's Letters to David Irving on the Hoefle telegram'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4563

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 1:03 pm)

catleugh, the following is a list of the questions that you didn't answer and/or answered in such a way that it damands a followup question(s)


* Why do you think the jews haven't gone to Treblinka and carried out their own GPR examination of Treblinka?

I don't know


Would you care to make a guess?

* Why do you think the alleged "huge mass graves" of Treblinka have never been found?

no answer


Would you care to make a guess?

* Why do you think Shermer refuses to publish the results of his Treblinka investigation?

I don't know


Would you care to make a guess?

* The "eyewitnesses" say that they didn't need hardly any fuel to "burn the bodies." Do you believe that you can cremate jews by simply "stacking them just right?" That all you need to do is put some kindling under them and they will "catch" fire and burn all by themselves - just like fire logs?

No, I think you would need some sort of fuel, I believed they used wood to burn some of the air raid victims in Dresden.


So did the "eyewitnesses" who said that the key to "burning" the bodies wasn't in how much fuel was used, but whether or not the bodies were "stacked" right? (i.e. - "the bodies of women, particularly fat women - FACE DOWN on the grill had to be placed first) were lying? That their (and the current official story endorsed by Arad), is a physical imposibility?

* Do you believe Edi Weinstein is a legitimate Treblinka survivor / eyewitness? http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?news ... 8976&rfi=6

no answer


I think this is an important question because his testimony is of the same type as those lying jews who's "testimony" is the basis for the Treblinka holocaust lie.

* We know that "at least one solidly documented proof exists" for the fact that Treblinka was a transit camp. Can you give me "at least one solidly documented proof" of the existance of Shermer's "huge mass graves" or Grossman's "huge furnace pits?"

No.


Why not?

* "Eyewitnesses" have claimed numerous killing methods allegedly employed by the Germans at Treblinka. Do you actually believe that any or all of these diabolical methods of murder were used?

I believe that some of them are theoretically possible.


Do you believe that any of them were actually used?


* I asked numerous questions about a mythical Gregyhound bus mass murder / cover-up. A person doesn't even need to know the word Treblinka to answer them. I will not repeat all of them, but I do expect you to answer them.

I wouldn't be thrown in prison for five years, I live in a civilized country (England), where I am allowed to decide for myself what to believe.


That is an evasive answer. Please answer the questions

* Do you think Michael Shermer is a fraud? A coward?

I don't know


Let me give you some information to help you answer that question. Look at this montage of quotes from Shermer’s spurious novel-as-true-history - Denying History:

“The purpose of this book is to… show precisely, with solid evidence, how we know the Holocaust happened… we must obey the rules of reason and apply the tools of science… Historians both discover and describe the past, just as natural scientists… we can use the methods of science to… marshal the evidence and apply tight logic… This process is practiced by all scientists… historical scientists, geologists, paleontologists and archaeologists, to prove that anything in the past happened… We must review the physical evidence in conjunction with written documents and eyewitness testimonies… As historical scientists, however, we realize that… when the participating scholars play by the rules of science, logic, and reason… hypotheses can be weighed against the evidence… We know that the Holocaust happened through the tried and true method employed by all historical scientists… our book clearly presented the convergence of evidence for how we know the Holocaust happened.”

Here’s another montage of Michael Shermer quotes from Denying History: “The culmination of years of research… our purpose… to present the historical facts that refute Holocaust denial… To debunk the deniers can’t we just go there and see them for ourselves? The answer, of course, is “yes.”… We can no longer ignore the deniers, calling them names and hoping they will go away… We cannot remain silent anymore. It’s time to respond… Not only is it defensible to respond to the deniers, it is, we believe, our duty… Many of our arguments draw on specialized research into the claims of the deniers that took us… to the Nazi extermination camps themselves… we went to Europe to conduct research at the camps, in particular at… Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec… We wanted to see for ourselves just what evidence there is at the camps and to take the opportunity to examine firsthand the claims… Much of the research is the type of work professional historians normally do… analyzing ground and aerial photographs… in order to make proper interpretations, we must review the physical evidence… Like criminologists solving a crime, we piece together the myriad bits of evidence until a conclusion emerges from the morass of data… How is it that so much physical evidence can come to be doubted?”


So if Shermer refuses to answer my questions, if he refuses to reply to my emails, if he refuses my challenges to debate, if he refuses to disclose what methods he allegedly used while "reviewing the physical evidence in conjunction with written documents and eyewitness testimonies," and while "conducting research at the camps, in particular at… Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec," and while "examining firsthand the claims," and while "reviewing the physical evidence… Like criminologists solving a crime," if he refuses to publish the results of his findings, if he refuses to publish so much as a single photo of himself proving that he ever set foot in Belzec, Sobibor or Treblinka, then isn't that evidence of fraud?

Remember, he also said this:

“We must be forthright and honest about what we know and do not know about the holocaust… It is the duty of informed experts on a subject to share their knowledge… Truth will always win out when the evidence is made available for all to see.”


Is Michael Shermer a fraud? Is he a coward?

* Do you believe that the Germans had a plan to exterminate the jews?

I don't think that that has been proved, but think it possible that *some*
Germans would have liked to have seen as many die as possible.


Evasive answer. I asked what you believed, not what has "not" been proven.


* How many jews do you think are buried at Belzec? Chelmno? Sobibor?

I don't know.


Do you believe the figures cited in Arads novel? Do you beleive that there are at least 64,000 buried at Sobibor?

I don't suppose you could ask me one question at a time, or start paying me an hourly rate?.


Well, let's just keep knocking them off as best as we can.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 2:04 pm)

Gerdes:
Why do you think Shermer refuses to publish the results of his Treblinka investigation?
catleugh:
I don't know

Gerdes:
We know that "at least one solidly documented proof exists" for the fact that Treblinka was a transit camp. Can you give me "at least one solidly documented proof" of the existance of Shermer's "huge mass graves" or Grossman's "huge furnace pits?"
catleugh:
No.

Gerdes:
Do you think Michael Shermer is a fraud? A coward?
catleugh:
I don't know

etc...

Now read this excellent example of the nonsense that Michael Shermer tries to pass off. Read carefully as Shermer is taken to school with his 'open letter to Germar Rudolf'.
see replies from:
Germar Rudolf
ASMarques
Matt Giwer
David Thomas
C. Zaverdinos
at:
http://www.codoh.com/bt/

more on shyster Shermer:
'Paul Grubach shows hypocrisy of Industry's Michael Shermer'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3767

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby catleugh » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 3:45 pm)

Greg Gerdes
You'll have to make do with the answers I gave you for now. I mean, come on, I started this off by asking just *two* questions, and never thought it would cause me so much bother. I have no intention of spending a large percentage of my limited spare time (you know what it's like, work, family, hobbies) undergoing a third degree. Anyway, when you get to my age it is difficult to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. Tell you what, I'll start off by reading up on Shermer, who I had never heard of before this week, and come back and give you an opinion, which you can then tear to pieces, and grill me on. Then I will pick something else to look at, and so on , and so forth.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 6:44 pm)

Here is Roberto's take on Treblinka:

"Actually the truth becomes apparent from reasonable assessment of the known evidence, without further site investigations being required to ascertain it. "

What an idiot!
The Holocaust hoaxsters exaggerate and embellish a 60+ year old event in order to abuse the Palestinians and rob them of their land, while claiming a free pass for their barbaric conduct on account of the "holocaust".

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 8:10 pm)

Sailor:

Here is Roberto's take on Treblinka:

"Actually the truth becomes apparent from reasonable assessment of the known evidence, without further site investigations being required to ascertain it. "


Apparent for those with magic glasses, seer stones and holocaust decoder rings.

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 8:58 pm)

catleugh:

You'll have to make do with the answers I gave you for now. I mean, come on, I started this off by asking just *two* questions, and never thought it would cause me so much bother. I have no intention of spending a large percentage of my limited spare time (you know what it's like, work, family, hobbies) undergoing a third degree. Anyway, when you get to my age it is difficult to concentrate on more than one thing at a time. Tell you what, I'll start off by reading up on Shermer, who I had never heard of before this week, and come back and give you an opinion, which you can then tear to pieces, and grill me on. Then I will pick something else to look at, and so on , and so forth.


Gee catleugh, those are all softball questions and I'm only asking you to get an assesment of your knowledge and understanding of Treblinka and the people who claim to have proven the legend via "eyewitness testimony" and alleged on-site investigations. And for most of them, I'm only asking you to venture a guess or what you believe based on your current level of understanding. I never intended to cause you any bother. I have a wealth of informatin that I would like to share with you. I'm just trying to learn more about you so that I can help you to learn.

For instance, I asked:

* "Eyewitnesses" have claimed numerous killing methods allegedly employed by the Germans at Treblinka. Do you actually believe that any or all of these diabolical methods of murder were used?


You respoded evasively by saying that some of the alleged methods were theoretically posible. But that is not what I asked. The question, again, was to assertain how much jewish propoganda you've fallen for and how many of the "eyewitnesses" tall tales you've swallowed - if any. I don't know how that question could be any easier to answer - either you beieve that some of them were used or you don't.

Let me be more direct. Please give a yes or no answer to the following question:

Do you beleive jews were gassed to death at Treblinka in homocidal gas chambers using the exhaust fumes of a diesel engine?


Yes or No?

BTW catleugh, if you really do want to read up on Shermer, I strongly suggest you read the http://www.nafcash.com/ site. I will be more than happy to answer any questions you have as you read through it. And if you would like to just concentrate on Shammer, here are all the relevent links I have on him in the nafcash site:

http://www.codoh.com/viewpoints/vppgsherm.html

http://www.vho.org/tr/2001/4/tr08nodebate.html

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/3/tr11shermer.html

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/1/tr09denyhist.html

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/1/tr09irving.html

http://www.vho.org/tr/2002/1/tr09irving.html

http://www.geniebusters.org/915/04g_jumping.html

And if that isn't enough info on the low-life for you, just google - michael shermer liar coward fraud - and see how many articles you will have to read about the puke.

Let me leave you with this tidbit of info about his fraudulent claim of being an unbiased "historian." (sic)

And speaking of deliberate omissions, there are a few more important things to know about Shermer’s deluding novel Denying History and his bogus claim that he’s an unbiased historian. Shermer’s co-author, Alex Grobman? Jew. The book’s forward author, Arthur Hertzberg? Jew. The book’s cover endorsement author, Jared Diamond? Jew. The six people prominently thanked in the book’s acknowledgments section, Samuel Goetz, Herbert Gelfand, John Fishel, Avner Shalev, Motti Shalem and Marcia Reines Josephy? Jews all. The well over fifty others who were thanked in the book’s acknowledgments section? The list may not be comprised entirely of Jews, but it reads like a Tel Aviv phone book. The three organizations under whose auspices the book was written, The S. Mark Taper Foundation, The Jewish Federation Council of Greater Los Angeles and The Leslie and Susan Gonda (Goldschmied) Foundation? Jewish organizations all. And get this! The organization that shares the novel’s copyrights with Shermer and Grobman? The Los Angeles Museum of the Holocaust!

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue May 06, 2008 10:04 pm)

BTW catleugh, let's not forget about Treblnka and Arads trashy novel. If you haven't got that far yet, let me share with you what I found in chapter 23 - THE REASURE OF THE CRIMES

About Chelmno:

"The ashes of the bodies and small fragments of bones were buried in the pits from which the bodies had been removed."

About Sobibor: (quoting a Becker Warner)

"The ashes and the remains of the bodies were buried in a specially designated place, and later a forest was planted there."

About Belzec: (citing an official Polish committee investigating German crimes in the Lublin area)

"The ashes from the burned corpses were put through a screening machine... subsequently, the ashes were buried."

About Treblinka:

"The camp comand was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained after the prosess was completed... Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt."

and he quotes an Abraham Goldfarb:

"we secretly placed in the walls of the graves whole skeletons and we wrote on scraps of paper what the Germans were doing at Treblinka. We put the scraps of paper into bottles, which we placed next to the skeletons. Our intention was that if one day someone looked for traces of the Nazis’ crimes, they could indeed be found.’”

and later writes:

"The mass graves, emptied of the victims bodies and refilled with the victims ashes and bits of their bones, were covered with a thick layer of earth.

and he ends the chapter with:

"By using... simply built, huge open-spaced crematoria... the Operatiion Reinhard staff was able to complete its mission of creamation and the erasure of their despicable crime."

So is there any doubt as to what Arad means by "the erasure of their despicable crime?" Is there any doubt about what he believes happened to the ash and bones of the alegedly murdered and subsequently cremated jews at all four camps? Is there any doubt that he is trying to claim that the Germans committed the perfect crime by simply covering up millions of pounds of crushed bone, tens of millions of teeth and tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings with a layer of soil? Do you believe it's possible to commit the perfect crime while murding 870,000 people catleugh?

Do you understand the insanity of that? If burning the bodies and crushing the bones doesn’t “obliterate all evidence” of mass murder, then how can the simple act of covering the remains with dirt do the trick? It’s understandable when a toddler believes that he’s made himself invisible while playing peek-a-boo by covering his eyes, but how do you explain the insanity of the holocaust “scholars” who believe that a layer of soil can make millions of pounds of evidence magically disappear? Do you think that Arad has the same magic glasses, seer stones and holocuast decoder rings as the fraud Michael Shermer and those losers over at holocaustian controversies?

So what do you think catleugh? Do you understand now how these cognitive illusions work? Do you see how the holocaust industry uses half-truths, FRAUDULENT “EYEWITNESS” TESTIMONY and emotionally charged photographs to short-circuit your ability to reason? Remember, holocaust “$cholar$hip” isn’t designed to get you to think - it’s contrived to make you believe - and REVERENTLY so! (This is exactly what is happening in our public schools via holocaust “education” classes.) The orthodox version of the holocaust is filled with nonsensical atrocity propaganda based on half-truths and lies and the impossible tall-tales of “eyewitness” testimony, forced “confessions” and counterfeit “investigations.” In fact, the fraudulent claims that it’s been scientifically proven are as laughably transparent as the original big-lie that over two million Jews were murdered in the “pure extermination centers” and the subsequent magically disappearing Jew excuse used in lieu of corpus delicti in the show trials.

The maliciously fabricated cognitive illusion of the officially sanctioned (and Jewish sanctified) holocaust / final solution story is so vacuous, that one has to question the intelligence, courage, character and sanity of those who, after being exposed to the truth, continue to believe, espouse and teach the orthodox version of “the holocaust.” It’s analogous to someone still believing the big-lie / cognitive illusion that Iraq really did have “Weapons of Mass Destruction.”

The illusionary “pure extermination centers” were simply the WMDs of WWII.

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Postby Vlad » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 07, 2008 1:48 am)

Would there be a way to detect buried teeth without digging them up?

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Postby J William » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 07, 2008 4:36 am)

Vlad wrote:Would there be a way to detect buried teeth without digging them up?


Be careful what you say. All those teeth supposedly buried there coupled with the high price of gold is liable to start the "great Polish gold rush of 2008". Of course this might be good as a search for gold ladened teeth would settle for once and all the non-existence of alleged mass graves at the sites of these camps.

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Postby Vlad » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 07, 2008 5:28 am)

Okay, I'll rephrase the question. Assuming any gold fillings have been extracted, would there be a way to detect buried teeth without digging them up?

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 07, 2008 1:46 pm)

Vlad:

Would there be a way to detect buried teeth without digging them up?


Vlad, I think the forensic experts who belong to the American Board of Fornesic Odontology would be an excelent source of information to help you answer that question. The following link contains the names of the ABFO Mass Fatality Dental Identification Team Leaders:

http://www.abfo.org/

Click on the - ID Teams - link on the left - under the red ABFO letters
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Wed May 07, 2008 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 07, 2008 2:15 pm)

On the subject of locating the "huge mass graves" of Treblinka, let us not forget what Robin O'Neil said about his so-called investigation at Belzec:

From the evidence uncovered by the 1997-98 investigations, the camp SS could not possibly have destroyed all traces of the extermination camp. Their purpose was to disguise the enormity of the numbers buried in Belzec. In the clear-up operation after burning the corpses, the cremated human remains, as well as the remnants of the burnt-down wooden barracks and demolished solid structures, were simply dumped into the pits and covered over... It was concluded that the nature of this task was so gruesome, and had become so unacceptable, that collusion to cover-up and not to complete the task as ordered was probably (without authorisation) agreed between the SS and members of the Jewish ‘death brigade’ engaged in this task... Perhaps after five months of supervising day and night the gruesome work of exhuming and cremating the hundreds of thousands of rotting remains the SS had simply had enough, and against orders, abandoned the task... The opened and partly emptied graves were refilled with the fragments of burnt human bones and pieces of carbonised wood from the bone mill, mixed with sand... From the wealth of evidence uncovered by the 1997-98 investigations it is obvious that the camp SS did not by any means erase all traces of the extermination camp, as hitherto believed.

The author was present throughout and carried out daily a video and photographic record of proceedings and findings.


http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... eview.html

Of course, all this begs at least three questions - 1) If the Belzec graves were so easy to find, then why hasn't this crack team of forensic archeologists even looked for the "huge mass graves" at Sobibor and Treblinka? 2) When is Robin O'Neil going to release the video that he claims he took of the "investigation?" and 3) When is Robin O'Neil (or anyone else for that matter) going to use the results of this "investigation" to lay claim to nafcash's $80,000.00 Final Solution Forensic Challenge?

Care to anwer any of those questions catleugh?
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Wed May 07, 2008 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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