Treblinka

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
catleugh
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:06 pm

Treblinka

Postby catleugh » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 02, 2008 2:06 pm)

I have just finished a couple of books on Treblinka, one by Jean-Francois Steiner, and the other by Samuel Willenberg. I had difficulty in taking either of them seriously. I am now half way through another book, called Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka by Yitzhak Arad, which gives a very believable account of what he calls "The Operation Reinhard Death Camps". Has anybody got any views on this book? Also, if Treblinka was a Transit Camp, where are the people that passed through it?

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 02, 2008 2:36 pm)

catleugh,
There's tons of material here which debunks the absurd claims about Treblinka and the Reinhardt camps. Use the search function here and see. Try 'Arad', 'Treblinka', 'Reinhard*, etc.

ex:
'Arad's intellectual dishonesty - the smoking gun'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4447

'Yitzhak Arad's 'Killing Operations' in Treblinka'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4382

But for starters you must ask why can't they show us the alleged mass grave for the alleged 900,000 Jews?

note: After some discussion, it is now known to be spelled Reinhardt. Others often still refer to it as 'Reinhard'.

Welcome to The CODOH Revisionist Forum.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 02, 2008 5:49 pm)

catleugh:

I have just finished a couple of books on Treblinka, one by Jean-Francois Steiner, and the other by Samuel Willenberg. I had difficulty in taking either of them seriously.


Yawn - I wonder why? Oh, maybe for this reason:

“An article re-evaluating Steiner's book Treblinka recently appeared in the French journal Revue d'histoire de la Shoah. There it was made abundantly plain Treblinka was nothing less than a deliberate attempt to hoodwink the reader into believing the book was a real work of history… Other readers, including many formerly sympathetic and supportive scholars and journalists now complain bitterly of having been intentionally deceived by Steiner and his novel-as-true-history on the Treblinka concentration camp… What he and others insisted in the book's Introduction, Preface, and Afterword was a scholarly chronicle of certain tragic events had, in fact, been a melodramatic novel… When he wrote the most important part of his book… Steiner had finally to confess that he relied almost solely on his own imagination.”


Read the whole article here:

http://www.vho.org/tr/2001/3/tr07steiner.html

catleugh:

I am now half way through another book, called Belzec, Sobibor, Treblinka by Yitzhak Arad, which gives a very believable account of what he calls "The Operation Reinhard Death Camps".


Yawn - "a very believable account?" Really? The basic storyline of Arad's novel is almost identical to Steiner's and Willenbergs trash. How can you have "difficulty in taking either of them seriously," and at the same time beleive that Arad's trash is "a believable account?" Can you say doublethinking? BTW catleugh, have you gotten to this yet in Arad's novel?

The following is from holocaust “scholar” Yitzhak Arad’s deluding novel (which was written to rectify the damage that was done to the Treblinka holohoax by Steiner’s embarrassing confession of fraud / forgery) BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA, chapter 23 - The Erasure of the Crimes: “The camp command was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained… Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt… [“Eyewitness”] Abraham Goldfarb relates: …’we secretly placed in the walls of the graves whole skeletons and we wrote on scraps of paper what the Germans were doing at Treblinka. We put the scraps of paper into bottles, which we placed next to the skeletons. Our intention was that if one day someone looked for traces of the Nazis’ crimes, they could indeed be found.’”


Yes, they could be found indeed - IF the story was true.

Why do you think that these alleged "huge mass graves" have never been found catleugh? Of course Michael Shermer claims that they exist, but then again he refuses to publish the results of his alleged "firsthand investigatin of the claims." Why do you think Shermer refuses to publish the results of his Treblinka investigation catleugh?

catleugh:

Has anybody got any views on this book?


Yawn - Try here:

http://www.nafcash.com/

You'll get all the "views" you can handle.

catleugh:

Also, if Treblinka was a Transit Camp, where are the people that passed through it?


Yawn - If Treblinka wasn't a transit camp, then where are the "huge mass graves?"

If my local Greyhound bus station isn't a transit center, then where are all the people that have passed through it? If you can't locate them catleugh, then is that proof that they have all been murdered? If I did in fact make such a claim - that not only have they all been murdered, but the total number murdered is about a million people, who's responsiblity is it to prove such an extrordinary claim? Would your inability to locate them be evidence that they were in fact murdered? What if I told you that I knew the EXACT location where all the murder victims were buried, but I'm just toooo busy to be bothered with showing you were this mass grave site is - what would you think of my extrordinary story of mass murder? Wouldn't you insist on seeing the mass graves before you could believe such a far-fetched tale? What would you think if I told you that it was your responsiblity to prove that they weren't murdered? Or how about this: What if I told you that I couldn't show you where the "huge mass graves" are because the murderers were evil geniuses who had figured out a way to "utterly eradicate" all evidence of their monsterous crime? What would you think of my "perfect crime" story? And what if a major part of my Greyhound bus mass murder story was that the murder weapon was the exhaust from the bus itself? That the people thought that they were just going to go for a bus ride, but they ended up dead 10 minutes later from the exhaust fumes of the diesel bus engine?

Here's another question for you catleugh:

If Westerbrook was a transit camp, where are the people that passed through it? Here is a little help for you in answering that question:

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... ictoc.html

The Germans had dozens of transit camps catleugh, If the final solution legend is true, then why didn't they kill jews in the vast majority of them? Why would they have orchestras in Westerbrook and homicidal gas chambers in Treblnka?

Oh, and one more question for you catleugh:

What if I actually made the claim that my story of the Greyhound bus station mass murders really were true, and you dared to publicly say that you were skeptical of my claim and demanded to see the "huge mass graves" of the Greyhound bus murders before you believed my extrodinary story, and you ended up being arrested, fined and thrown in prison for 5 years for your thought crime of rational disbelief - what would you think of such a scenario? What would you think of the filthy scoundrels who persecuted you for the "crime" of being skeptical of nonsensical physical impossibilities?
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Fri May 02, 2008 9:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 02, 2008 9:29 pm)

Catleugh, here's some more information from the nafcash site - http://www.nafcash.com/ - that you won't get from any of the trashy novels that you're reading:

“You testified that there was no forensic evidence of Treblinka… However, there appears to already exist considerable forensic evidence of Treblinka… the excavation… failed to discover any residue of human bones… Thus, given all of the above, it seems inconceivable that you were unaware of the existence of the two forensic investigations of Treblinka that appear to have been conducted… Or did you suppress it?”

NOTE: For a more thorough treatise on the early forensic examinations at Treblinka, click HERE: “After the liberation of the Treblinka II Camp in early August of 1944, investigations of the camp were conducted immediately, first in mid-August 1944 by a Soviet-Jewish commission and then by a Polish-Jewish commission in the fall of 1945. Over three dozen testimonies taken under oath from Jewish ex-prisoners of the Treblinka II Camp were compiled in 1944 and 1945 by these commissions… Survivors alleged that 50,000 people were executed by shooting in this [the Lazaret] pit… [However] the thorough forensic exploration failed to discover any of the 50,000 (at least) reputed execution bullets, or any of the 50,000 spent cartridges… [The eyewitnesses] purpose was to point to the locations of the unforgettable installations which allegedly they had had a chance to observe daily for about a year… [However] only two years after the supposed events of the alleged extermination, the four survivors were unable to recall the location of these gigantic [burial] pits.”

RECAP: The entire Treblinka holocaust legend is based entirely on nonsensical “eyewitness accounts,” yet when the golden opportunity arose for these same “eyewitnesses” to help forensically prove the “history” that they claimed to have witnessed; they were unable to locate so much as a single “huge mass grave!” This is why Shermer intentionally tried to suppress the fact that there have been numerous on-site investigations conducted at Treblinka that conclusively refute his alleged (and unpublished) “findings,” which oh-so conveniently parrots the most recent official story. With the help of shameless professional liars like Shermer, all previous on-site investigations of Treblinka have been put down the memory hole.

Do you now understand the Orwellian machinations that have been required to maintain the ever-changing Treblinka holohoax story? Sophistic propaganda, exemplified by the so-called “science of history,” is utterly devoid of any tangible physical evidence that supports the deluding claim that the latest version of the Treblinka holocaust has been scientifically proven. It’s a vacuous mix of propaganda by omission, rehashed “eyewitness accounts” and new big-lies which the Jews / holocaust industry is now using to rectify THE ORIGINAL BIG-LIE:

“In late 1943, Grossman joined in a project to document Nazi war crimes… It was his fate once again to be with the Soviet troops who discovered Treblinka… His report, based on relentless interviewing of survivors… was eventually cited at the Nuremberg Trials… as there were already millions of corpses in the ground… The huge excavators operated day and night… The excavators dug… [3] furnace pits, 250-300 meters long, 20-25 meters wide and 6 meters deep... but could not cope with the millions of buried bodies… At the lowest estimate, even if we cut the figures cited by the witnesses in half, the number of people would amount to something like three million.”

Millions of corpses already in the ground? Three huge pits - 300 meters long, 25 meters wide and 6 meters deep? At the lowest estimate - three million victims? All based on relentless interviewing of survivors? What utter nonsense! Now you know why the Jews want to silence and persecute holocaust skeptics who wish to investigate and expose this historical fraud.

Vlad
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 6:25 am

Postby Vlad » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 1:47 am)

Westerbork, not Westerbrook.

vincentferrer
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 362
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: Zionist country

Postby vincentferrer » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 2:15 pm)

Jean steiner admitted in 1985 that his book, Treblinka, was a hoax.

I bought 2 copies of the Sat Evening post, ( 1967 editions) which each contain 20 page excerpts from the book.

I knew when reading it, it was all BS.

Those magazine editions can still be found on ebay for a few dollars.

FWIW
The very word holocaust is a pejorative to every German citizen. There was no holocaust,
just lies from the abandoned race.

catleugh
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 4:06 pm

Postby catleugh » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 4:28 pm)

I am still not convinced either way. I know that a lot (some of you would say all) of the "evidence" is suspect, e.g. , documents or testimony from Nuremberg, or "eyewitness" accounts. But what about the testimonies from the trials of the 1960's, or the "Hoefle Telegram", i.e. if it is a genuine document, what happened to the (700,000 ?) people that were sent to Treblinka?. I would have thought that a few survivors would have talked about passing through it. Do you think that the defendants in those trials were tortured in some way, and that the Hoefle Telegram is a fake?
Greg Gerdes, yes, I have read the bit about burying the ashes in the pits the bodies were taken from, but that is the account of one eyewitness, and I believe it has been suggested elsewhere that the ashes were removed from the camp, and used as fertilizer. Of course if that ground survey of a few years ago was properly carried out, it takes a bit more explaining.
Having read some more of Arads' book, I have no faith whatsoever in what Willenberg says. He gives different accounts of the same stories in two of his books. One example is, in the book quoted by Arad he tells of the time he was flogged by the SS, and how it aggravated an old wound. In another book published about twenty years later he expands on that to explain that the old wound was caused by a ricocheting tank shell! In the first book he says he was too ill to work the next day, and managed to hide, while in the second he says that he worked erecting poles for a new fence the next day.
Oh, Westerbork. apparently about 60000 ended up in Auschwitz, 34,000 were sent to Sobibor, 5,000 to the Theresienstadt ghetto, and roughly 4,000 to Bergen-Belsen, so we have at least a story of what happened to its inmates.
[/quote]

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 6:45 pm)

Yawn - It doesn't matter what anyone thinks or says about what happened to the remains. Even if "the perfect crime / magically disapearing jew" theory was true, the location of the "huge mass graves" could still be found today.

Arad says that 700,000 jews were already in the ground before the "burning operation" commenced. So it matters not whether the alleged "huge mass graves" contain the remains of 870,000 jews, canned hams or are filled with dirt, their exact locations and their exact dimensions could still be found today.

But of course, anyone who beleives that it's possible to dig 700,000 jews out of the ground, and not leave a single trace of such a monsterous crime is delusional. Have you ever heard of a little thing called forensic science catleugh? How abour archeology? Criminology? The scientific method? Or how about this, have you ever heard -

If it couldn’t have happened - as alleged, then it didn’t happen - as alleged.


Just what part of physically impossible do you not understand catleugh? Do you really believe that it's possible to bury and later dig up 700,000 people and not leave so much as a fingernail behind? And again, even if it was possible to accomplish such a miraculous feat, and reguardless of what happened to the alleged remains, the original grave would be possible to detect.

And speaking of "the original graves" - How many were there catleugh? And what about the gassing method - was it steam or diesel exhaust? BTW catleugh, could you provide us with some photographs of this alleged murder and cover-up operation?

catleugh:

yes, I have read the bit about burying the ashes in the pits the bodies were taken from, but that is the account of one eyewitness, and I believe it has been suggested elsewhere that the ashes were removed from the camp


So you admit that someone has to be lying then - correct? And no catleugh, it's not "ashes" - it's bones. You do understand that even modern cremation technuques don't reduce bodies to "ashes," but rather to bones, right catleugh? I'm not saying that there wouldn't be any ashes if such an operation had occured, in fact there would be tons of them, but the bulk of the remains would be bones - TEETH and bones.

Which reminds me catleugh, the "eyewitnesses" say that they didn't need hardly any fuel to "burn the bodies." Do you believe that you can cremate jews by simply "stacking them just right?" That all you need to do is put some kindling uder them and they will "catch" fire and burn all by themselves - just like fire logs?

But it's only the account of one eyewittness you say? Arad himself espouses what that "one eyewitness" says:

BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA, chapter 23 - The Erasure of the Crimes: “The camp command was confronted with the problem of disposing of the large piles of ash and bits of bone that remained… Ultimately it was decided to dump the ash and bits of bone into the ditches that had previously held the bodies and to cover them with a thick layer of sand and dirt…


Who are you to doubt the worlds foremost expert on the Operation Reinhardt camps catleugh? Arad himself based his "findings" on the "eyewitnesses accounts."

“All we do have is survivors' evidence and testimony… this is the main source for our information about the camp… No trace of the extermination operation remain.” (Arad’s testimony at the trial of John Demjanjuk.)

And if the remains were removed from the camp, then where are they?

But you are correct catleugh, that many of the alleged eyewitnesses did claim that the remains were taken from the camp. At least that is what Grossman claims the "eyewitnesses" told him. Of course, those same "eyewitnesses" said that millions - "at the lowest estimate" THREE MILLION - jews were killed at Treblinka. And what about the huge trenches that Grossman's "eyewitness" said they dug at Treblinka? Three of them - 300 meters long, 25 meters wide and 6 meters deep? These were Grossman's alleged "furnace pits." Remember now catleugh, the same "eyewitnesses" that claimed that the remains were taken from the camp, are the same "eyewitnesses" that claim they dug the "furnace pits." That was the original story. Have you gotten the ever-changing Treblinka holocaust story mixed up? But of course, if the "eyewitnesses" huge trench story is true - do you know how easy it would be to find those "huge trenches" today, if they actually existed?

Oh, and please comment on what this "eyewitness" said:

“survivor / eyewitness” Szyja Warszawski claims: “The ashes that remained after the burning were thrown back into the pits where the bodies had been dug out earlier… For some pits only the top layer of bodies was dug out. The rest of the bodies were covered over with soil…” (Warszawski’s “eyewitness testimony” to the Main Commission for the Investigation of the Hitlerite Crimes in Poland.)

Oh what a tangled web you weave catleugh.

But enough of your jewish shellgame. Let's quote the world famous archaeologist Robin O'Neil:

“Using forensic tools common to all criminal investigations today, Mr. O'Neil's scrutiny gives clear proof of the killings despite the attempts to destroy this evidence… ‘It does not matter how big the crime is as such - it could have been 800,000 people or one person - the detection, or forensic investigation, is exactly the same as long as the correct procedures are adopted,’ he said… By using the archaeology of the Holocaust excavations at Belzec… O'Neil discovered that the Nazis had dug up all the bodies, burnt them and ground the bones down and put them back in 33 pits… ‘Not only did they dig up all the bodies, burnt them and ground the bones up, but they then put them all back and grassed the graves over. So they have been intact there for the last 60 odd years.’”


Full story here: http://www.le.ac.uk/press/press/holocaust.html

Yes catleugh, it could have been one or 700,000 or 870,000 or three million - "the detection, or forensic investigation, is exactly the same as long as the correct procedures are adopted" Why didn't the USHMM send the O'Neil / Kola team to Treblinka catleugh? And if the alleged remains of the alleged 870,000 jews who were allegedly murdered at Treblinka were "taken from the camp" as some alledge, then why did the Germans leave their evidence behind at Belzec?

And speaking of O'Neil, do you know when he's going to release the video that he claims he shot during his Belzec "investigation"? Isn't it strange, he's a close personal friend of Steven Speilberg, and he claims he can't find anyone to edit his films of the investigation. Can you explain that catleugh?

catleugh:

Of course if that ground survey of a few years ago was properly carried out, it takes a bit more explaining.


Can you explain why the jews haven't gone to Treblinka and carried out their own GPR examination of Treblinka? Now THAT is something that needs splainen. And what about Shermers claim that he Analyzed ground and aerial photographs? You did read the nafcash site - didn't you catleugh?

Michael Shermer accuses real skeptics of “denying history” because they refuse to share his delusional belief that the Germans were able to murder millions of Jews without leaving a trace! In his sophomoric and sophistic attempt to “prove” this accusation, he not only had to turn the scientific method on its head, but the fundamental principles of skepticism as well. For proof of this, let’s again look at his own words from Denying History: “The best way to beat a lie detector is to believe the lie yourself… Deception becomes self-deception.” Really? Well then, let’s use the alleged Treblinka holocaust as a case study in denial and self-deception. Here’s another montage of Michael Shermer quotes from Denying History: “The culmination of years of research… our purpose… to present the historical facts that refute Holocaust denial… To debunk the deniers can’t we just go there and see them for ourselves? The answer, of course, is “yes.”… We can no longer ignore the deniers, calling them names and hoping they will go away… We cannot remain silent anymore. It’s time to respond… Not only is it defensible to respond to the deniers, it is, we believe, our duty… Many of our arguments draw on specialized research into the claims of the deniers that took us… to the Nazi extermination camps themselves… we went to Europe to conduct research at the camps, in particular at… Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec… We wanted to see for ourselves just what evidence there is at the camps and to take the opportunity to examine firsthand the claims… Much of the research is the type of work professional historians normally do… analyzing ground and aerial photographs… in order to make proper interpretations, we must review the physical evidence… Like criminologists solving a crime, we piece together the myriad bits of evidence until a conclusion emerges from the morass of data… How is it that so much physical evidence can come to be doubted?”

Reviewing the physical evidence? Analyzing ground and aerial photographs? Like criminologists solving a crime? Well now Michael, real skeptics and legitimate scholars have been waiting for years for you to publish the results of your alleged firsthand examination of the physical evidence and analysis of AERIAL PHOTOGRAPHS of Treblinka. If you’re so incredulous that people can come to doubt so much physical evidence and photographic proof, then why do you refuse to publish the results of your alleged research? If there’s so much physical evidence – then let’s see it! What happened to your “duty to respond” Michael? (After all, you do want to put an end to holocaust denial – don’t you?)


Yes, Shermers refusal to publish the results of his alleged on-site investigations of Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka needs some splainen, doesn't it catleugh?

catleugh:

Oh, Westerbork. apparently about... 34,000 were sent to Sobibor...


And of course, since Sobibor was also one of the "Operation Reinhardt camps," you will of course show us the "huge mass graves" that these jews are buried in?

Yawn, well, I must run catleugh. You will answer ALL the above questions in your next post, wont you? Especially this one:

Do you really believe that it's possible to bury and later dig up 700,000 people and not leave so much as a fingernail behind?


Where are the "huge mass graves" catleugh?
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Sat May 03, 2008 6:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 6:49 pm)

And another thing catleugh, you never answered my questions about the mythical Greyhound bus station. Please answer the questions.

If my local Greyhound bus station isn't a transit center, then where are all the people that have passed through it? If you can't locate them catleugh, then is that proof that they have all been murdered? If I did in fact make such a claim - that not only have they all been murdered, but the total number murdered is about a million people, who's responsiblity is it to prove such an extrordinary claim? Would your inability to locate them be evidence that they were in fact murdered? What if I told you that I knew the EXACT location where all the murder victims were buried, but I'm just toooo busy to be bothered with showing you were this mass grave site is - what would you think of my extrordinary story of mass murder? Wouldn't you insist on seeing the mass graves before you could believe such a far-fetched tale? What would you think if I told you that it was your responsiblity to prove that they weren't murdered? Or how about this: What if I told you that I couldn't show you where the "huge mass graves" are because the murderers were evil geniuses who had figured out a way to "utterly eradicate" all evidence of their monsterous crime? What would you think of my "perfect crime" story? And what if a major part of my Greyhound bus mass murder story was that the murder weapon was the exhaust from the bus itself? That the people thought that they were just going to go for a bus ride, but they ended up dead 10 minutes later from the exhaust fumes of the bus's diesel engine?

Oh, and one more question for you catleugh:

What if I actually made the claim that my story of the Greyhound bus station mass murders really were true, and you dared to publicly say that you were skeptical of my claim and demanded to see the "huge mass graves" of the Greyhound bus murders before you believed my extrodinary story, and you ended up being arrested, fined and thrown in prison for 5 years for your thought crime of rational disbelief - what would you think of such a scenario? What would you think of the filthy scoundrels who persecuted you for the "crime" of being skeptical of nonsensical physical impossibilities?

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 6:53 pm)

You know catleugh, you never commented on this either. I'll repeat if for you because I know you didn't intentionaly ignore it. (go to the nafcash site to click on the links)

“You testified that there was no forensic evidence of Treblinka… However, there appears to already exist considerable forensic evidence of Treblinka… the excavation… failed to discover any residue of human bones… Thus, given all of the above, it seems inconceivable that you were unaware of the existence of the two forensic investigations of Treblinka that appear to have been conducted… Or did you suppress it?”

NOTE: For a more thorough treatise on the early forensic examinations at Treblinka, click HERE: “After the liberation of the Treblinka II Camp in early August of 1944, investigations of the camp were conducted immediately, first in mid-August 1944 by a Soviet-Jewish commission and then by a Polish-Jewish commission in the fall of 1945. Over three dozen testimonies taken under oath from Jewish ex-prisoners of the Treblinka II Camp were compiled in 1944 and 1945 by these commissions… Survivors alleged that 50,000 people were executed by shooting in this [the Lazaret] pit… [However] the thorough forensic exploration failed to discover any of the 50,000 (at least) reputed execution bullets, or any of the 50,000 spent cartridges… [The eyewitnesses] purpose was to point to the locations of the unforgettable installations which allegedly they had had a chance to observe daily for about a year… [However] only two years after the supposed events of the alleged extermination, the four survivors were unable to recall the location of these gigantic [burial] pits.”

RECAP: The entire Treblinka holocaust legend is based entirely on nonsensical “eyewitness accounts,” yet when the golden opportunity arose for these same “eyewitnesses” to help forensically prove the “history” that they claimed to have witnessed; they were unable to locate so much as a single “huge mass grave!” This is why Shermer intentionally tried to suppress the fact that there have been numerous on-site investigations conducted at Treblinka that conclusively refute his alleged (and unpublished) “findings,” which oh-so conveniently parrots the most recent official story. With the help of shameless professional liars like Shermer, all previous on-site investigations of Treblinka have been put down the memory hole.

Do you now understand the Orwellian machinations that have been required to maintain the ever-changing Treblinka holohoax story? Sophistic propaganda, exemplified by the so-called “science of history,” is utterly devoid of any tangible physical evidence that supports the deluding claim that the latest version of the Treblinka holocaust has been scientifically proven. It’s a vacuous mix of propaganda by omission, rehashed “eyewitness accounts” and new big-lies which the Jews / holocaust industry is now using to rectify THE ORIGINAL BIG-LIE:

“In late 1943, Grossman joined in a project to document Nazi war crimes… It was his fate once again to be with the Soviet troops who discovered Treblinka… His report, based on relentless interviewing of survivors… was eventually cited at the Nuremberg Trials… as there were already millions of corpses in the ground… The huge excavators operated day and night… The excavators dug… [3] furnace pits, 250-300 meters long, 20-25 meters wide and 6 meters deep... but could not cope with the millions of buried bodies… At the lowest estimate, even if we cut the figures cited by the witnesses in half, the number of people would amount to something like three million.”

Millions of corpses already in the ground? Three huge pits - 300 meters long, 25 meters wide and 6 meters deep? At the lowest estimate - three million victims? All based on relentless interviewing of survivors? What utter nonsense! Now you know why the Jews want to silence and persecute holocaust skeptics who wish to investigate and expose this historical fraud.


Why do you think Arad and Shermer tried to suppress the fact that there were earlier Treblinka Investigations? Is that evidence of fraud catleugh? And do you know how easy it would be to locate the alleged Lazarate pit? All you would need is a cheap metal detector!

Just think catleugh, an $80,000.00 reward, and all you need to lay claim to it is a cheap metal detector and a plane ticket to Poland!

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 7:21 pm)

I just found something else I thought you might be interested in catleugh, since you're such a big believer in the "eyewitnesses" tall tales (do you still believe in santa catleugh?)

Tell me what you think of this "eyewittness account."

"On Aug. 22 1942 we were force-marched 32 kilometers to Siedlce. Two days passed before the cattle train arrived to transport us to Treblinka. We were among the first ones to get into the train."
The boys, aged 16 and 15, soon realized they must extricate themselves or be suffocated by the press of humanity. "The cattle cars were so overcrowded that the people were passing out because of lack of air," he wrote. "... We pushed ourselves on the peoples' heads and with a super-human effort managed to get out. Better to be killed from a bullet than suffocate."
Hundreds of people remained on the platform and the SS troopers continued to pack them into the cattle cars. More than half would die during transport. Those that survived were so overcome by thirst that when the train pulled into Treblinka they tore open the windows, jumping out and running toward a water pump. The Germans opened fire, killing many.
Mr. Weinstein was struck in his right chest, the bullet piercing a lung and exiting his back. Within minutes his brother found him and, with the help of a cousin, dragged the wounded boy into a nearby building. The building was full of bundles of clothing and his brother found a bottle of iodine hidden in a pocket. The boys poured the iodine into his wound and bandaged him with a towel. They then covered him with bags of others' belongings and went in search of water. Mr. Weinstein never saw Israel again and never learned his fate.
Mr. Weinstein stayed in the building for several days without water before he forced himself up and out into the camp. He sidled into a group of Jews that were busy dragging bodies to the cremation pits. Gradually, he integrated himself into the workers assigned to clean the transport trains that arrived and to load the large bundles of clothing from the murdered Jews.
"There was so much clothing from the dead," he remembers. "They would take them into a big building where they were told to undress and go into showers for disinfection." There the Jews were poisoned and the designated Jewish workers made bundles from their clothing.
Although still weak from his wound, Mr. Weinstein was determined to live. The Germans running the camp were totally capricious and workers were pulled daily from the ranks and killed for no reason. On two occasions Mr. Weinstein was selected to be murdered, but on both occasions managed to elude his captors.
Soon, Mr. Weinstein was back loading bundles of victims' clothing onto the empty trains.
"We knew that the goods were going to be shipped to the central warehouse in Warsaw, or perhaps to Germany," he wrote. "Several times I tried to enter a car and hide under the suitcases, but the loaders working in the train did not let me in. ... When the car was partially filled, I carried a bundle inside. But instead of going back out, I hid in a corner near the window. When the car filled up halfway, Michael Fischmann and Gedalia Rosenzweig climbed in and joined me ... . Michael was the oldest of us, about 24. Evidently anticipating our future needs, he had concealed several belts filled with gold coins that he had taken from corpses."
The boys lay there, anxious and tense, while their comrades added more bundles. At the end, the SS men inspected the car, rummaging through the bundles. "[Finally,] he said, 'in Ordnung'-everything's OK-and jumped onto the platform. ... Some time later, we heard the heavy door being slammed shut and locked. We lay in total darkness for about half an hour more until the locomotive lurched into action and the cars began to move. I climbed up a bit and peered through the slats of the grate. The platform began to fade into the distance. .... Suddenly I realized that I was outside. I had escaped from Treblinka."
The boys later jumped from the moving train and made their way back to Losice. The people in the small ghetto could not believe the tale they told of mass deaths. "How could they believe that-especially from Germany, the most civilized country in Europe?" he asked.
He did not know where to go, but eventually decided the safest thing to do would be to join his father in the forced labor camp. "I was with my father in one day."
The two escaped together and went into hiding for the next two years. "We made a hiding place in a pig sty," he recalled. "After about three weeks the poor farmer was afraid and chased us out. My father sent me to a friend who was head of fish hatcheries on big estates. ..."


source: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?news ... 8976&rfi=6

User avatar
Haldan
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: <secret>
Contact:

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 8:03 pm)

I often find myself asking the question why believers in the "holocaust" don't find it troubling that it only exists on paper, isn't that alarming enough?

-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

User avatar
Rapier
Member
Member
Posts: 58
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 5:59 pm

Postby Rapier » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 9:55 pm)

Haldan wrote:I often find myself asking the question why believers in the "holocaust" don't find it troubling that it only exists on paper, isn't that alarming enough?

-haldan


Why?

Because they don't read ANYTHING about the Holocaust other than propaganda and hate about those who don't believe.

If you don't read the "testimonies" you can't dismiss them as dark farce.

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 03, 2008 10:44 pm)

Rapier:

Why? [don't holocaustians find it troubling that the holocaust only exists on paper] Because they don't read ANYTHING about the Holocaust other than propaganda and hate about those who don't believe.


Aint that the truth. Did you notice our recent guest's claim that he's recently read three trashy novels about Treblinka, yet he couldn't even bring himself to look at the nafcash site? He couldn't even bring himself to answer the most basic questions for fear that he would commit a thought crime. That's the power that holocaustianity has over peoples minds - that is of course if our recent "guest" wasn't someone out for a troll.

Why do people continue to believe in physical impossibilities even after being confronted with incontrovertible facts that refute them? Because you can’t convince a true believer of anything, for their beliefs are not based on science and reason, they’re based on faith and a deep-seated NEED to believe. Hence, most propaganda isn’t designed to fool the critical thinker, but rather;

Only to give self-deceiving cowards an excuse not to think at all.


Why are people so afraid of the truth?

Greg Gerdes
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 411
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:03 pm

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun May 04, 2008 1:02 pm)

catleugh:

what happened to the (700,000 ?) people that were sent to Treblinka?. I would have thought that a few survivors would have talked about passing through it.


First off, how did you determine the figure of 700,000? What happened to Grossman's - "At the lowest estimate, even if we cut the figures cited by the witnesses in half, the number of people would amount to something like three million?”

Who are you catleugh, to challenge Grossman's figures? He conducted a firsthand investigation of the Treblinka site. His report was cited in the Nuremberg show trial. His report was - "based on relentless interviewing of survivors." I notice catleugh that you use use a very deceptive trick in your arguments. You cherry pick your "eyewitness" statements. This is a trick used by all true believers of holocaustianity. They use a statement by an alleged "eyewitness" as a basis for an argument, but totally ignore the most asine other parts of the same "eyewitnesses" testimony. (Do you believe the "eyewitnesses" who claim they saw German guards tear jewish children in half with their bare hands catleugh?) They pick and choose statements from the original story and pick and choose statemenst used in the revised (rectified in Orwell speak) version. Your tricks work on the ignant, but why would you come here and try to use them? Are you just practicing your sophistry catleugh?

And why do you reject Shermers claim that the figure is 900,000? His claim is also based on an alleged "firsthand investigation" of the camp. Of course, this begs the question: What evidence did Michael Shermer find at Treblinka that led him to claim such a figure? Why do you think Michael Shermer refuses to publish the results of his study of Treblinka catleugh? And how in the hell can two people conduct two seperate onsite investigations, and come to such incongruent figures? Of course, if Michael Shermer would only let us know what forensic methods he employed at Treblinka, if he would only share with others the alleged ground and aerial photographs he claims he studied that prove his claims...? (Odd behavior for a “scientist” who claims he wants to put an end to holocaust denial – isn’t it?)

Second, about those who passed through Treblinka:

That Treblinka served, among other things, as a transit camp to Majdanek and other work camps in the Lublin area is admitted even by the Jewish historians Tatiana Berenstein and Adam Rutkowski. In the verdict of the Demjanjuk trial in Jerusalem certain former Jewish deportees were named who arrived in Majdanek after a short stay in Treblinka. It is more difficult to prove that Jews were deported from Treblinka to the occupied Soviet areas, but at least one solidly documented proof exists. On July 31, 1942, one week after the opening of Treblinka, the Reichskommissar for White Russia, Wilhelm Kube, excitedly objected to Reichskomissar for the Eastern territories Heinrich Lohse against the transportation of 1,000 Jews from Warsaw to Minsk, on the grounds that these Jews represented a danger as potential carriers of epidemics and as supporters of the partisans. At that time all deported Jews from Warsaw arrived in Treblinka, so that those 1,000 Jews must have been sent through that camp to Minsk. This one transport already is enough to shake the foundations of the story of the "pure extermination camp," in which every Jew except for a handful of "work Jews" was immediately murdered. Whoever objects that this transport is merely an exception must ask himeself how many other such "exceptions" existed.


Read the whole article here:

http://vho.org/tr/2004/1/Graf97-101.html

So catleugh, we know that "at least one solidly documented proof exists" for the fact that Treblinka was a transit camp. Can you give me "at least one solidly documented proof" of the existance of Shermer's "huge mass graves" or Grossman's "huge furnace pits?"

And what about the killing method catleugh? "Eyewitnesses" have claimed numerous killing methods allegedly empleyed by the Germans at Treblinka. There are at least 12 different methods that certain jews have claimed to have "witnessed with their own eyes." Here is the list -

Exhaust fumes from an unspecified engine, with poison added to the fuel.

A mobile gas chamber that traveled along the mass graves and unloaded the corpses into them.

Gas chambers with delayed reaction gas, which enabled the victims to walk to the mass graves, where they lost consciousness and fell into the graves.

Quicklime in trains; according to this version Treblinka served only as a burial place.

Boiling water.

Steam.

Electric current.

Shooting with machine guns.

Suffocation by vacuum pumping of the chambers.

Chlorine gas.

Zyklon B.

Diesel exhaust fumes.


So which "eyewitness" was telling the truth and which "eyewitness" was lying catleugh? Or do you actually believe that all of these diabolical methods of murder were used?

Let me suggest something to you catleugh. Read the nafcash site

http://www.nafcash.com/

then read - Treblinka Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?

http://vho.org/GB/Books/t/

There was no Treblinka holocuast catleugh. And there were no extermination centers. And there was no German policy to exterminate the jews. Why are you so afraid of accepting these facts catleugh? Why must you cling to your belief in this absurd fairy-tale filled with physical impossibilties? Just what part of physically impossible do you not understand catleugh?


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests