Fatherland - HBO movie from the 90s

[sakula]

Hey Folks,
I just watched a movie from the 90s called Fatherland.. It has rutger hauer and the premise is that Germany won the war, at least with the US (they are still fighting russia, in the 60s).. It was somewhat interesting as the producers did well in setting up a 1960s third reich, including Albert Speers huge buildings. However, the movie follows the holocaust script to the letter, except since Germany won, they were never caught, until the 60s.

Anyone else see this movie?

[Hannover]

Hey Folks,
I just watched a movie from the 90s called Fatherland.. It has rutger hauer and the premise is that Germany won the war, at least with the US (they are still fighting russia, in the 60s).. It was somewhat interesting as the producers did well in setting up a 1960s third reich, including Albert Speers huge buildings. However, the movie follows the holocaust script to the letter, except since Germany won, they were never caught, until the 60s.

Anyone else see this movie?

This exemplifies the contradictory nature of the entire scam, they can't keep their lies straight.

The film indicates Germany was never caught until the 60s, yet it's claimed the so called 'holocaust' is "most documented event in history". Even the Zionist dominated media started it's propaganda campaign before the war's end.* Judeo-supremacists even claim Heinrich Himmler made 'secret speech' about it in front of a large audience, and had it recorded.

It's the "most documented event in history", but then the Germans supposedly "tried to keep it secret", they supposedly used laughable "code words", "destroyed the evidence", "murdered all the sonderkommandos who supposedly assisted in the gassings", etc.

But now these sonderkommandos have written books, and still today, there's supposedly hundreds of thousands of Jewish 'survivors' ... which completely contradicts the storyline which says the Germans tried to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.

What a mess the 'holocaust' nonsense is.

This is too easy.

* Actually, the '6,000,000' scam was started long before Hitler and WWII.

- Hannover

[Lupa]

Hey Folks,
I just watched a movie from the 90s called Fatherland.. It has rutger hauer and the premise is that Germany won the war, at least with the US (they are still fighting russia, in the 60s).. It was somewhat interesting as the producers did well in setting up a 1960s third reich, including Albert Speers huge buildings. However, the movie follows the holocaust script to the letter, except since Germany won, they were never caught, until the 60s.

Anyone else see this movie?

Yes , I saw the movie , but better:

I have read the book!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel)

The book describes the intrigue much better than the movie.

Its pure historical fiction , tipical for Robert Harris, with a pretty well documentation.

[ASMarques]

It's the "most documented event in history", but then the Germans supposedly "tried to keep it secret", they supposedly used laughable "code words", "destroyed the evidence", "murdered all the sonderkommandos who supposedly assisted in the gassings", etc.

Back in 1997, in a newsgroup that concerned itself with fictional AH (Alternative History), I once offered the following comment on Robert Harris's "Fatherland" (slightly edited to correct the quicker improvised language one used in the Usenet):

(Addressing another poster entranced with what he called the plausibility of the novel)

History is no different from other fields of human inquiry, and the method to approach truth is called scientific skepticism. Before one makes sweeping theories of History, one should examine in depth his own society's most dearly held "historical truths," and go on from there.

Let me elaborate on this. You find "Fatherland" one of the two most plausible AHs (alternative histories). Yet the whole plot rests on one of the most stupendously improbable premises I can remember. Just think of it this way: in the book the whole plot revolves around small pieces of information which, like the Sesame door, introduce the characters to the amazing world of the great nazi gas chambers.

How about the known historical facts in OTL (our time line)? Well, you won't believe this if you're not familiar with the revisionist debate, but the defenders of the "exterminationist thesis" actually tell us (try reading the books by J.-C.Pressac) that in OTL no single piece of hard evidence of the supposed mass murder of six million people on the scale of the whole European continent survives, except for precisely the same small pieces of evidence referred to in the "Fatherland" book!

You'll find good discussions of those items in the works of Wilhelm Staglich, Arthur Butz and Robert Faurisson (try looking for them in your usual bookshop...), but I won't go into that, because it has nothing to do with my point. My point is the following: in OTL the German archives fell in Allied hands, all sorts of information were squeezed out from their captured leaders, Germany was wide open and defenseless against hordes of Western Allied and Soviet inquisitors in the immediate aftermath of the war; and yet, in 1997, we are told that the only pieces of "hard evidence" we have are precisely the same ones that survive in a world where the Germans are in control and totally free to hide their dark secrets as best they can.

In the book-based film they actually do this in a very funny way by falsifying postcards and sending them from the eastern labor camps in the name of all those people who have actually gone to the gas chambers (this truly gives you the Zeitgeist of OTL's present day). They apparently hope to go on with this sort of thing forever, to avoid anybody noticing that an entire race has vanished from the surface of the planet. I only mention the film in order to call your attention to our own time; the book was better, but not much.

If you find the book plausible AH, then you must agree that our own official "history" is very implausible. No other way out. But then what's the use of figuring out plausible past AHs, if we won't dare to look into the present day AH we live in?

Should interest the What-If people: what if they have been lied to?

Of course, all hell broke loose and a long running battle with the local newsgroup folks was launched...

By the way, does anybody know what happened to the Finnish site that used to be found here:
http://www.valtakunta.eu/

"Valtakunta" means Empire / Reich in Finnish, and, although I don't understand the language, this looked to me like a first-class AH site, postulating a German victory in WW2 (or rather a "stalemate" road to peace, with Germany equipped with nuclear weapons, Italy divided in two states, the USSR beaten back beyond the Urals, but not quite destroyed) and describing a fascinating alternative present, with a lot of maps, imaginative imagery (if you'll excuse the pleonasm) and what looked to me like a suspiciously revisionist outlook. Then it suddenly went out and can no longer be found anywhere.

[sakula]

The film indicates Germany was never caught until the 60s, yet it's claimed the so called 'holocaust' is "most documented event in history"

HAHA! The 'documents' used to get the 'truth' out in the movie, was a simple manila folder of papers/pictures no more than 2 inches thick... you'd think there would be more 'papers'.

[Hektor]

The film indicates Germany was never caught until the 60s, yet it's claimed the so called 'holocaust' is "most documented event in history"

HAHA! The 'documents' used to get the 'truth' out in the movie, was a simple manila folder of papers/pictures no more than 2 inches thick... you'd think there would be more 'papers'.

That seems to be more then we are usually offered .

But it demonstrates how ridiculous the whole thing is. A couple of unverified pages are supposed to be proof for a monstrous genocide of millions of people. And of course one needs some detectives to even raise the question. If wasn't for the Holocaust lobby, most people would think that any major shift in demography was merely due to migration. i.e. everyone knows that Palestine has got a couple of millions of Jews more then before.

Given the nature of the camps - keeping a genocide via gassing secret is actually really a bad idea.

[ASMarques]

HAHA! The 'documents' used to get the 'truth' out in the movie, was a simple manila folder of papers/pictures no more than 2 inches thick... you'd think there would be more 'papers'.

In the book you get a few more "traces" of exactly the same sort we get in the real world of complete Allied victory, total exposition of the German secret archives etc.

In a final note the author mentions the "authentic documents" from the real world quoted in the novel, and they are the Wansee Conference Minutes, a memorandum on the use of prisoner's hair (big deal; doesn't he know that during the war hair for industrial uses was collected at British barbershops as well?), railway timetables, the "order from the Auschwitz Central Construction Office," and so on.

How very imaginative. He then assures us that "Hitler did -- notoriously -- avoid putting his name to anything like a direct order for the Final Solution, but almost certainly issued a verbal instruction in the summer of 1941."

Sure thing. And then the verbal order trickled down the whole range of military and political levels, from the Fuehrer to the lowly executioners, always by word of mouth, and it never occurred to a single soul being required to perform the outlandish illegal acts to ask for written orders...

[Mannstein]

The bottom line is not a single autopsy report exists showing the cause of death for a single inmate to have resulted from gas poisoning. Such an incriminating document is lacking among the hundreds of thousands preserved at the Bad Arolsen archives.

Yet with so little evidence the 'causters would have us believe their fairy tale is the most documented mass murder crime in all of history.

The power of propaganda is truly remarkable.

[Goethe]

The bottom line is not a single autopsy report exists showing the cause of death for a single inmate to have resulted from gas poisoning. Such an incriminating document is lacking among the hundreds of thousands preserved at the Bad Arolsen archives.

Yet with so little evidence the 'causters would have us believe their fairy tale is the most documented mass murder crime in all of history.

The power of propaganda is truly remarkable.

And Bradley Smith asks the world:

Can anyone provide me with the name of one person, with proof, who was killed in a gas chamber at Auschwitz?

http://bradleysmithsblog.blogspot.com/