Historians lower death toll in Dresden bombing

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Historians lower death toll in Dresden bombing

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:16 am)

Historians lower death toll in Dresden bombing
Published: 2 Oct 08 08:54 CET
Online: http://www.thelocal.de/14651/20081002/


Far fewer people than previously thought may have died in the infamous
Allied firebombing of Dresden at the close of World War II, according
to a new assessment by historians.


Until now, the number of dead from the February 1945 attack on the
eastern German city has swung wildly from 35,000 to half a million
victims. But a panel of historians commissioned by the city’s former
mayor in 2004 has just determined it was likely far smaller.


“The results of the commission determine that 18,000 died in Dresden
from the air raids,” daily Die Weltquoted an official statement on
Thursday. “The commission assumes a maximum of 25,000 people lost
their lives in the February attacks on Dresden.”


The British and American air raids on the city once known as “Florence
on the Elbe” are widely considered to have been unnecessary and
responsible for the deaths of innocent civilians. The city has rebuilt
much of its historic centre and long since moved on, but the bombing
continues to stoke controversy.


Neo-Nazis have repeatedly used it for propaganda purposes and members
of the far-right NPD party in the Saxon parliament have scandalized
the city by referring to it as the “Bombing Holocaust.”

Found it here:
http://groups.google.co.za/group/alt.re ... l=en&pli=1

Now I wonder, when will there be a such a commission to investigate the death toll by gassing in Auschwitz :wink: .

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 9:33 am)

Now I wonder, when will there be a such a commission to investigate the death toll by gassing in Auschwitz


They have already had numerous 'commissions' into the industry...Exactly like this. Where I come from they are commonly referred to as bullshit.
I mean, who are these 'historians'? What did they do to come to this conclusion?

It's just another attempt at damage control, and to assure everyone, it is nothing to concern themselves with. And to just carry on worshiping the fraudulent holocaust, instead of real ones.

grenadier
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:07 am

Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:19 am)

“The results of the commission determine that 18,000 died in Dresden from the air raids,” daily Die Weltquoted an official statement on
Thursday.


The figure of 18.000 certainly stems from the report of Colonel Thierig, which was only a PRELIMINARY report. Until early March 10, 18.375 dead people, mostly women and children had been counted. The report also noted there were probably many thousands buried under the ruble and that there were some 35.000 people missing.
The most likely death toll for Dresden is what the German historian Jörg Friedrich stated in his detailed book about the allied bombing campaign, "Der Brand", around 40.000 dead. Possibly more, given that there were perhaps more than 400.000 refugees in the city, besides the city population. Plus the city had few air raid shelters and was virtually undefended. It's hard to believe the Dresden raids would have killed less people than the raids on Hamburg in 43, a city much more well prepared, and where over 40.000 souls lost their lives.
It's a good thing though, that those figures of 100.000 to 200.000 were incorrect. Jews should feel good that there were no homicidal gas chambers and that a lot less of their people lost their lives during the war.
Strangely, they feel angry about it. :lol:
Btw, Jörg Friedrich is hardly exagerating the death toll in the Dresden raids, what with his impeccable credentials denouncing Nazi crimes and as a contributor to the famous anthology " Encyclopedia of the Hoaxoco$t, er Holocaust". :wink:

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 978
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:40 pm)

You know, this article is altogether quite disgusting actually. This is why I cannot stomach reading these poisonous rags, because they leave me quite sickly. The underlying tones and message are typical of the hate ridden journaille.
The cities that were destroyed; cannot ever be replaced with modern, non-descript, chuck-up, pre-fabricated muck. They are not in the same league as the masterpieces that Winston Jerome and his handlers destroyed. A great many were medieval and are totally irreplaceable.

As usual, the notorious Marxist scum have a stab at the ‘Neo-Nazis’ and ‘far-right’. These extreme left-wingers and Marxist Jews that control Germany are terrified, that as the industry lies which they feed off; start to be exposed, the ‘real’ crimes they perpetrated will start to take precedence. Who are these ‘far-right’ people? Anyone who doesn’t want a load of Jews running their foreign policy?

Btw, Jörg Friedrich is hardly exagerating the death toll in the Dresden raids, what with his impeccable credentials denouncing Nazi crimes and as a contributor to the famous anthology " Encyclopedia of the Hoaxoco$t, er Holocaust".


Well that’s mandatory before you even put pen to paper nowaday’s..Have good arse-lick to let them know you’re a good guy.. But for the life of me I cannot think of crimes that equal what the Marxist's did at Dresden and numerous other German cities, with their purposeful targeting of civilians, their phosphor, the timers on the bombs, designed to kill the fire brigades, so the civilians could get no help . Neither can I think of anything to compare to Nagasaki or Hiroshima.

These people purposely target the heritage and heirlooms of countries; they detest culture and ties to the past. Take the calculated destruction of the Russian churches, all blown to pieces by the thousands. Iraq was another example. One of the first things to be destroyed were the museums, pillaged and smashed to pieces, containing some of the oldest artefacts known to man. They even levelled the ancient city of Babylon, and built a football field on it ….I mean who wants to be anything to do with that?

Anyway Iran next …Talking to Uncle Sam, the Cat’s-paw!

The enemy I see, wears a cloak of decency

Heydrich
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:26 am

Postby Heydrich » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 4:08 pm)

Please do not fall for this anti-German propaganda. It is consensus between especially "German" historians to lower German suffering whenever possible and to maximise German guilt whenever they can.

It is fact though that 12.000 multi-storied homes have been destroyed during the Dresden bombing raid. Next to 600.000 inhabitants more than 600.000 refugees were flooding the city. It can be assumed that at least 30 to 60 persons were staying in one of those houses.

The Chief of Police in Dresden reported on March 22nd 1945 in his daily order no. 47 that 202.041 death have been recovered and that this number is assumed to rise to 250.000. Only 30% of those murdered were identified.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 5:03 pm)

But a panel of historians commissioned by the city’s former mayor in 2004 has just determined it was likely far smaller.

questions to be asked:

- Who comprised this 'commission'?
- What were the required qualifications?
- How much were they paid?
- What was their backgrounds?
- Who actually made the selections to this 'commission'? The "former" mayor, or some committee? And then who comprised the appointing committee? How much were they paid?

It's odd that in 2008 it's said that a 'commission appointed in 2004' by a "former" mayor has any relevance. Why the delay? Four years seems to simply equate into more income for those involved.

neo-Nazi / antisemitic:
any person or thought that a Jew doesn't like

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

grenadier
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:07 am

Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:30 pm)

Heydrich:
Please do not fall for this anti-German propaganda. It is consensus between especially "German" historians to lower German suffering whenever possible and to maximise German guilt whenever they can.


I'm aware of that and agree with you. However, in this case I must say
that I doubt the numbers given in this daily order number 47 for several
reasons:
1. As far as I know the original of this order has not been found.
2. No authenticating stamps or signatures.
3. It does seem to have been based on the Thierig report.
4. Comparing with the fire-bombing of Tokyo by the Americans, the worst
of its kind as far as I know, over 83.000 died. Most Japanese buildings
were wooden structures which added to the fire storm. Therefore, I
doubt that in Dresden more than double the figures for Tokyo were lost.

Personally I believe between 40.000 and 60.000 were killed in Dresden.
We'll never know for sure but whatever the real death toll, the totally
unnecessary bombing of Dresden ranks high among World War II war crimes.

Heydrich
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:26 am

Postby Heydrich » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:27 pm)

@ grenadier

Your guessing and assuming of the total death toll is just based on your believe. As a revisionist, you should know better and consider other sources, especially reports close to the event:

Report of the joint Relief 1941-1946 of the International Red Cross:
275.000 death

German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer (DEUTSCHLAND HEUTE, issued by Presse- und Informationsamt der Bundesregierung, Wiesbaden 1955, Seite 154):
250.000 death

As per former General Staff member of the Dresden defense area, Mr. Matthes (retired Lieutenant Colonel of the later Bundeswehr) 35.000 dead have been completely identified, 50.000 dead were partially identified and 168.000 murdered could not have been identified.

In basements 3 metres below the city centre of Dresden (Altmarkt) discoloration of the sandstone from white/beige to red occured.
The stone was partially vitrified.
The Berlin Archeologist Uwe Müller says that temperatures from 1300 to 1600 degrees celsius must have occurred above ground in order to achieve something like this. In combination with lack of oxygen, many of the victims have been burned to ashes alive.

Only in April of 1946 (!) discovered air raid shelter with 243 dead:

Image

Dead body discovered in 1947 in a Dresden air raid shelter:

Image

Paul der Cherusker
Member
Member
Posts: 22
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 6:53 pm

Postby Paul der Cherusker » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:38 pm)

Adenauer believed the death toll was 250,000?

I guess he must have been a neo-Nazi too. :roll: :wink:

grenadier
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:07 am

Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:54 pm)

@ Heydrich

Thanks for your input Heydrich. Would you be so kind as to furnish me with sources regarding the casualties claimed by Mr.Matthes? It's ok if it's in German. Also I'd appreciate if you could provide sources for the basement photo/story and 1947 corpse photo/story. Since this might be considered off topic, send me a pm please.

Thanks in advance and best regards.

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3449
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:18 pm)

grenadier wrote:@ Heydrich

Thanks for your input Heydrich. Would you be so kind as to furnish me with sources regarding the casualties claimed by Mr.Matthes? It's ok if it's in German. Also I'd appreciate if you could provide sources for the basement photo/story and 1947 corpse photo/story. Since this might be considered off topic, send me a pm please....
I'd consider them highly on topic and yes, Heydrich should provide the sources. This should include documents relating to the Mathes claims and additionally I would be interested into location and verifyable of possible mass-graves of Dresden victims.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10034
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Oct 10, 2008 12:35 pm)

Hektor wrote:... and additionally I would be interested into location and verifyable of possible mass-graves of Dresden victims.

Those mass graves would be called Dresden cemeteries, which do exist.

The 'holocaust' fraud says that millions of Jews were dumped in enormous mass graves, but not a single mass grave as alleged in the 'holocaust story can be shown.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

friedrich braun
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:40 am

Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:13 pm)

Our political opponents revise history (including unofficial death tolls) all the time. It’s only a question of who and what is subjected to re-examination.

Not much chance of a two-year commission into the Shoah. Doubtless, it could establish a definitive figure for camp deaths and their causes, establish the whereabouts of the missing bodies and ashes, etc. The revisionists would not protest whatever the outcome, providing the process was transparent and free from Jewish pressuring. But the keepers of the flame are locked into a process of outright warfare, and they can’t back away from it.

They probably can’t win it, either. The moral courage of the revisionists is unbreakable, and the day will come when every thinking man will ask himself what is really going on here.
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."

"The Seven Sermons to the Dead"

C.G. Jung

friedrich braun
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:40 am

Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Oct 26, 2008 11:44 am)

But for the life of me I cannot think of crimes that equal what the Marxist's did at Dresden and numerous other German cities, with their purposeful targeting of civilians, their phosphor, the timers on the bombs, designed to kill the fire brigades, so the civilians could get no help .

"Marxists"? What Marxists? Marxists didn't do anything at Dresden, rather it was the Anglo-American butchers.
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."



"The Seven Sermons to the Dead"



C.G. Jung

friedrich braun
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 619
Joined: Wed Nov 26, 2003 4:40 am

Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:10 am)

Survivors of the Dresden bombing were machine-gunned by low-flying U.S. aircraft on strafing missions targeting the columns of dazed, injured refugees trying to get away from the city on the third day:

http://www.timewitnesses.org/english/%7Eangela2.html
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."



"The Seven Sermons to the Dead"



C.G. Jung


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests