Report: Auschwitz blueprints 'found' in Berlin apartment

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Inquisitive
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Report: Auschwitz blueprints 'found' in Berlin apartment

Postby Inquisitive » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sat Nov 08, 2008 12:58 pm)

There now, "proof" DOES exist of gas chambers!

Original plans for the construction of the Nazi extermination camp of Auschwitz, including a gas chamber and crematorium, have been found in a Berlin apartment, a newspaper reported Saturday.

The daily Bild published copies of some of the 28 plans, which the head of Germany's federal archives, Hans-Dieter Krekamp, called "authentic proof of the systematically planned genocide of the Jews of Europe.


more proof:
One plan, drawn by a detainee as early as November 1941, when experiments in eliminating prisoners were already under way, had a gas chamber clearly labelled, Bild said.


Bild gave no indication of where, when or by whom the plans were found.


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035393.html

If it's so "evident" why do they keep coming up with "more" proof? It's documented, right?


I believe that adds up to "I made it up but you'd better believe it or else."

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Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:26 pm)

As far as we can tell from this article it is not clear if what is labeled as the Gaskammer was intended for homicidal purposes or delousing.

It would also be of interest if this gas chamber is the one that is shown to tourists at Auschwitz as being used for killing prisoners.

Should that be the case then we already know it to be a fake based on the results of Rudolf's forensic investigation.

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Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sat Nov 08, 2008 8:55 pm)

Just laying around a Berlin apartment for the last 67 years unnoticed, eh? Would those be the convenient Plans found in a no name apartment, the ones not yet authenticated or would they be the real fake ones? “Auschwitz, including a gas chamber and crematorium.” [Where 1.5 million Jews [a day?] were gassed by super duper Nazis…]

Just like the Niger Uranium documents, and Saddam letters to al Qaeda, and the missile gap documents with USSR.

This is in the long line of connivances to get the morons to toe the line, whatever that it maybe, based on the imperatives of the moment.

Undoubtedly, the drawings had been kept under the bed of this Nazi, very Nazi, extremely Nazi, very very extremely Nazi, civil engineer who had direct orders from Darth Vader to go and build another one, with the funds from the gold that was extracted from the teeth of the first lot of Jews.
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sat Nov 08, 2008 11:37 pm)

see:
http://www.bild.de/BILD/news/vermischte ... urden.html

Image
Where in Auschwitz is this supposed to be?

Notice the incongruous text that has obviously been added over the plan.

And if these plans are supposed to range from 1941-43, then where are the alleged 'gas chambers' supposedly made from crematoriums II & III?

One plan, drawn by a detainee as early as November 1941, when experiments in eliminating prisoners were already under way, had a gas chamber clearly labelled, Bild said.

Drawn by an inmate? Laughable. Since when did they get mechanical drawing materials. How would this go unseen by the SS? How would it have gotten out of Auschwitz?

Notice the included report comments from Untersturmführer Kurt Gerstein, on the so called 'gas chambers'
[he] stated that one- fiftieth of the prisoner-total would have to be deloused every day
.
More on the debunked claims about Gerstein:
'Acclaimed "eyewitness" Kurt Gerstein said that?'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=1220

To call this an act of desperation by The Industry would be an understatement. But oh how predictable given the debunking done by Revisionists.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sun Nov 09, 2008 3:20 am)

Hannover wrote:Where in Auschwitz is this supposed to be?


Apparently nowhere. It's obviously none of the five alleged homicidal gas chambers: not the alleged one at the Auschwitz main camp they exhibit to the naive tourists, not the by now familiar design of the Birkenau "Epicenter of the Holocaust" (to paraphrase Van Pelt) at Krema II and its inverted twin at Krema III, and not the smaller Krema IV and V design either.

Of course, all of those "gas chambers" were, in fact, morgues to their respective crematories. Newcomers to this forum may watch Faurisson's excellent exposé of the authentic morgue blueprints here:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tyMQHd9C2sU
[1st of 7 segments]

It's spoken in French, but you'll be able to see the blueprints for all the morgues allegedly functioning as homicidal gas chambers in clips 3 to 5. I think a German dubbed version can also be found on-line.

Notice the incongruous text that has obviously been added over the plan.


Not so sure about that.

One result of the inability of "Holocaust" peddlers to nullify the revisionist onslaught on the gas chambers myth is the need to resort to increasingly preposterous material, quite possibly authentic (what you might call scrapping the reality barrel) but presented in such devious ways that a child could discern the humbug if the whole data was made available. It's the only way to keep the myth alive, thanks to the ignorance and naiveté of the public, thanks in turn to the nearly universal censorship on the topic, as well as the human propensity to unreasonable religious belief.

The document may well be authentic and represent a delousing chamber. In fact, if it is authentic, it can't be anything else, unless you add more homicidal gas chambers to the "alleged five." I certainly would like to know what do the usual "Holocaust scholars" have to say about any new homicidal gas chambers at Auschwitz...

On the other hand, completely ignorant tabloid articles capitalizing on the words "gas chamber" and presenting delousing installations as mass chain-murder sites can only, in the long run, bring water to the revisionist mill.

To call this an act of desperation by The Industry would be an understatement.


Agreed on that one, though "desperation" may in fact be too much to expect. This whole gas chambers business has receded from incongruous mystery full of logical holes, to idiotic comedy, to outright farce, to plain raving lunacy, to babbling tabloid nonsense, and, well, it's still here to stay...

Sooner or later it's going to go the way of UFOs. You know, the evil gas chambers as immaterial things that haunt the spiritual landscape, that sort of thing. But, of course, blind belief will still endure, and so will thoughtful denial...

One really needs a lot of patience.

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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:05 am)

Mannstein wrote:As far as we can tell from this article it is not clear if what is labeled as the Gaskammer was intended for homicidal purposes or delousing.



It clearly does not resemble any of the homicidal "gas chambers" that have so far been described to us. The size of the "found" chamber is 11.66 meter by 11.20 meter. Can you imagine trying to pack 2000 people into such a space?

Thats over 15 people per square meter!! These very clearly were delousing chambers.

Reuters has even come around to the fact:

The daily printed three architect's drawings on yellowing paper from the batch of 28 pages of blueprints it obtained. One has an 11.66 meter by 11.20 meter room marked "Gaskammer" (gas chamber) that was part of a "delousing facility."
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/ ... me=topNews

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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sun Nov 09, 2008 4:40 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Image

Where in Auschwitz is this supposed to be?


It's the delousing chamber in BW 5a / BW 5b in Birkenau (where Germar Rudolf has taken his mortar samples in September 1991 to compare it with those from the alleged homicidal gas chambers in the morgues of Krema II/III).

Hannover wrote:Notice the incongruous text that has obviously been added over the plan.


The plan is certainly genuine, but it has already been known for decades.

Pressac has published it in his book "Technique and Operation...." in 1989.
The plan is in the polish PMO-Museum in Auschwitz Ref-No: Bauleitung drawing 801 of 8/11/1941 [PMO neg. No. 209321/I ]

Germar Rudolf has published it in his 1993 book "Vorlesungen über Zeitgeschichte":


Image

Concerning this "Bild"-story see also:

http://de.altermedia.info/general/lange-nicht-gehabt-auf-exkursion-nach-ravensbruck-021108_18713.html#comment-392460
and the following comments there.

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Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sun Nov 09, 2008 6:01 pm)

Notice the gas chamber doors swing open toward the inside of the room.

Not the best design if one is going to pack it with victims to the maximum.

Incidentally, the article was published first in the German Bild newspaper. It's reputation and reporting quality are just about on par with the Enquirer here in the US.

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Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sun Nov 09, 2008 10:11 pm)

The plans that appear in the Bild story are of a delousing station. Those facilities included gas chambers for fumigating clothing and other articles--and NOT for killing people at all. Jean-Claude Pressac has an entire chapter devoted to such facilities in Birkenau.

http://veritas3.holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/pressac/technique-and-operation/pressac0057.shtml

I discussed similar delousing stations at length in several of my essays even earlier. and they are thoroughly discussed in a number of German wartime essays in Gesundheits-Ingenieur and elsewhere.

The Germans routinely referred to the gas chambers used for delousing as "Gaskammern" and rightly so. There is nothing sinister about that at all. Only a number of hopelessly misguided revisionists, like Robert Faurisson and Mark Weber, have insisted that those gas chambers were not really gas chambers and could not have been used for mass murder. They certainly were real gas chambers--and they could have been used for mass murder easily enough if some of the internal equipment had been protected from the intended victims (easy enough to achieve)--but those chambers have never been implicated at all until now. Instead, what is, or are, implicated are totally different rooms which do not have the same essential features that the delousing gas chambers have. Those essential features are the means to expel cyanide gas from Zyklon-B rapidly with warmed air, circulation fans, and exhaust ductwork for venting.

The delousing gas chambers would have been ideal working models for building large gas chambers for mass murders like those alleged in the holocaust hoax. But what we are, in effect, told with the hoax is that the very same people who were fumigating with Zyklon-B ignored everything they would have known about gas chambers to keep people alive and, instead, built totally non-functional gas chambers for mass homicide. It makes no sense at all.

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Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 9 months ago (Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:33 pm)

Mannstein wrote:Notice the gas chamber doors swing open toward the inside of the room.


This fact only, is enough to certify that this is NOT a gas chamber. 8)

Mannstein wrote:Not the best design if one is going to pack it with victims to the maximum.


Not the best design if you are talking about operating at a 30% capacity or less. :wink:
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Postby Riley DeWiley » 1 decade 9 months ago (Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:33 am)

The blueprints are likely of delousing chambers. As has been noted, they are copies of documents existing in other archives.

Moreover, the Pygmy On Feet Of Clay, Robert Jan Van Pelt, has debunked at least one of them as likely fake, which either means it is fake, or it is genuine and undercuts his case.

Not much to this story after all.

Riley

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Postby kk » 1 decade 9 months ago (Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:13 am)

It's just another shot in the exterminationist foot:
Van Pelt, an architectural historian, said that copies of the plans of the stages of the camp's construction were also in the archive of the Polish National Museum at Auschwitz and in an archive in Moscow. He said that the source of the new copies was unclear since, according to Bild, the plans were found in an apartment in Berlin, whereas copies that were in the SS offices in Berlin were destroyed by Allied bombing in 1944. Van Pelt said he also doubted the authenticity of the signature of the SS chief, Heinrich Himmler, since such a high-ranking officer would not have signed such plans, and none of the copies he had ever seen bore such a signature.

Van Pelt also said the words "gas chamber" on one of the drawings meant a room in which disinfection of clothing was done by means of gas, and that the sketch is not of an extermination camp established in 1942, but rather of earlier plans for a huge concentration camp in which a force of 130,000 slave laborers was intended to work.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035958.html
:lol:

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 9 months ago (Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:44 pm)

Here's another spin on this pathetic attempt to buttress the impossible story line.

Notice reference to the thoroughly debunked 'Wannsee Conference', it's stated:
The decision to kill Europe's 11 million Jews was made at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942.
A copy of the minutes, known as the "Wannsee Protocol," is one of the most important documents from the war.
The questionable Wannsee 'document' says nothing of the kind. See here as the liars can't keep their lies straight:
'Wannsee Conference: Deborah Dwork versus USHMM'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3122

Notice that the liars refute themselves by now admitting that the plan refers to a "delousing facility", of which there were many. But still we read such nonsense like:
"These documents reveal that everyone who had even anything remotely to do with the planning and construction of the concentration camp must have know that people were to be gassed to death in assembly-line fashion,"
Oh really? How is that?

Only the most uninformed would find this sinister:
The plans .... also include a crematorium and a "L. Keller" -- an abbreviation for "Leichenkeller" or corpse cellar.
Yes, a place to put the dead typhus victims. Typhus was the purpose of the stated "delousing facilities".

Bizarre and irrational 'Holocaust' logic lives on.

- Hannover

Blueprints for Auschwitz camp found in Germany
By Erik Kirschbaum Erik Kirschbaum
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081110/wl_ ... _auschwitz

BERLIN (Reuters) – The original construction plans believed used for a major expansion of the Nazi death camp at Auschwitz in 1941 have been found in a Berlin flat, Germany's Bild newspaper reported on Saturday.

The daily printed three architect's drawings on yellowing paper from the batch of 28 pages of blueprints it obtained. One has an 11.66 meter by 11.20 meter room marked "Gaskammer" (gas chamber) that was part of a "delousing facility."

No one from the federal government's archives was immediately available for comment on the authenticity or importance of the documents.

The plans, published ahead of the 70th anniversary of the "Kristallnacht" or the Nazi pogrom that was a harbinger of the Holocaust, also include a crematorium and a "L. Keller" -- an abbreviation for "Leichenkeller" or corpse cellar.

A drawing of the building for Auschwitz's main gate was also found in the documents that Bild said were believed to have been discovered when a Berlin flat was cleaned out.

The mass-circulation newspaper quoted Hans-Dieter Kreikamp, head of the federal archives office in Berlin, as saying the blueprints offered "authentic evidence of the systematically planned genocide of European Jews."

There were mass killings of about one million Jews before the Nazi's "Final Solution" was formulated in late 1941. The decision to kill Europe's 11 million Jews was made at the Wannsee Conference in January 1942.

A copy of the minutes, known as the "Wannsee Protocol," is one of the most important documents from the war.

The newly found Auschwitz blueprints are dated October 23 1941 and could offer historians earlier evidence of Nazi plans to kill Jews on a mass scale, Bild said.

"These documents reveal that everyone who had even anything remotely to do with the planning and construction of the concentration camp must have know that people were to be gassed to death in assembly-line fashion," Bild wrote.

"The documents refute once and for all claims by those who deny the Holocaust even took place," it added.

The concentration camp at Auschwitz-Birkenau in Poland was the largest -- at least 1.1 million Jews were killed there.

Auschwitz I was set up in May 1940 in an old Polish army barracks. The first victims were gassed in September 1941. Auschwitz II, or Birkenau, opened in October 1941. Four large gas chambers were added to the camp in January 1942.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 9 months ago (Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:23 pm)

This was forwarded to me by Dr. Ingrid Rimland.

Again, the 'holocaust' liars can't keep their lies straight.

- Hannover
Below, a brief comment from Dr. Arthur Butz, as well as some
backpeddling by Haaretz.

First, Dr. Butz:
Friends:

Robert Faurisson has circulated his comments on the current Bild
story about the "Gaskammer" under the heading "Encore un serpent de
mer à Auschwitz", which translates literally to "another Auschwitz
sea serpent". However this is an idiom that is better translated
"again an old Auschwitz story".

I was disappointed to realize that an idiom was involved because the
"sea serpent" idea is good provided one understands that the sea
serpent is of the sort that children have, easily inflated and more
easily deflated.

The current story uses the oldest hokey "Holocaust" trick, going back
to 1945 at least with that picture of an American soldier standing at
the door of a delousing gas chamber at Dachau. I reproduced and
discussed the picture in Chapter 2 of my now-ancient book "The Hoax
of the Twentieth Century".

This story is another instance of a supposed discovery that will
conclusively refute the "Holocaust deniers", implying that till now
we have not been conclusively refuted. After 63 years, and despite
massive persecution!

The story will enjoy a brief existence and then fall away, to await
the next inflatable sea serpent that we will see bobbing its silly
way toward us, with another buffoon of a hero astride.

A.R. Butz

Here is the write-up from Haaretz:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1035958.html
10/11/2008

Auschwitz expert: Blueprints found in Berlin not of death camp

By Assaf Uni

A leading expert on Auschwitz on Sunday denigrated the importance of
the finding of plans for the construction of the extermination camp,
which was reported this weekend in the German tabloid Bild. He said
the documents have been known to scholars for many years and that
they were not plans to build the extermination camp of
Auschwitz-Birkenau, but rather earlier plans for the building of a
forced labor camp.

Prof. Robert Jan van Pelt, a internationally acknowledged expert on
the planning and construction of Auschwitz, said that based on what
he had seen on the Internet, there seemed to be nothing new about the
documents. He was one of several scholars who expressed doubts about
the significance of the Bild story.

Van Pelt, an architectural historian, said that copies of the plans
of the stages of the camp's construction were also in the archive of
the Polish National Museum at Auschwitz and in an archive in Moscow.
He said that the source of the new copies was unclear since,
according to Bild, the plans were found in an apartment in Berlin,
whereas copies that were in the SS offices in Berlin were destroyed
by Allied bombing in 1944.

Van Pelt said he also doubted the authenticity of the signature of
the SS chief, Heinrich Himmler, since such a high-ranking officer
would not have signed such plans, and none of the copies he had ever
seen bore such a signature.

Van Pelt also said the words "gas chamber" on one of the drawings
meant a room in which disinfection of clothing was done by means of
gas, and that the sketch is not of an extermination camp established
in 1942, but rather of earlier plans for a huge concentration camp in
which a force of 130,000 slave laborers was intended to work.

Van Pelt suggested the plans might be fakes, motivated by the
lucrative market in Nazi memorabilia and documents.

Ralf Georg Reuth, the historian who wrote the piece in Bild, told
Haaretz yesterday that the existence of such plans in Russian
archives was known, "but German institutions have no originals, and
therefore the importance of the finding of such original material is
very great." Reuth would not elaborate on where and when the plans
were discovered, or whether they had been submitted to experts for
study.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 9 months ago (Mon Nov 10, 2008 6:42 pm)

Posted by someone else on a different forum:

CR: "460 square feet, or 11,500 cubic feet. Seems like you'd need a lot of gas to poison large numbers of people and then you'd have to vent it without killing all of your own people."


I suggest this is dubious reasoning.

First, if I remember correctly, the concentration of gas must have been relatively weak, because it took relatively long to "delouse" one batch of people. I forget – 20 minutes? In any case, the venting of the gas into the outdoors does not need to be a major problem, with or without forced-air circulation.

Second, the "deloused" victims were emptied from the shower-rooms by sondercommandos – groups of Jews that were executed every 3-4 months anyway -- so I don't think that their health was major concern for those that ran the "delousing" operation. Anyway, that's all to the extent that those sondercommando Jews could be considered the Nazis' "your own people."

I'm speaking in general terms, of course (not addressing differences between Auschwitz I and Auschwitz-Birkenau, etc. -- I think that's secondary as far as the issue that you've raised.)
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