Comments on Sanning and Nazi atrocities against non-Jews

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montague
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Comments on Sanning and Nazi atrocities against non-Jews

Postby montague » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Sep 06, 2003 10:07 pm)

Hi all

I thought I'd raise the topic of several anti-Nazi atrocity stories from Soviet-era communist propaganda, which are still - from my experience at message boards - widely believed by Russians and Belarusians today. Then I'll give Walter N. Sanning's account of why they aren't to be believed.

1. The deaths of 2-3 million Russian POWs in German captivity. Germany captured an enormous number of Russian prisoners - mainly in the Ukraine - at the start of Operation: Barbarossa. Most of them died in starvation. Stalinists allege that the Germans killed them deliberately.

2. The deaths of 19 million Soviet civilians at the hands of the Germans. An extraordinary allegation, but one which is still current.

3. The deaths of 5 million Ukrainians as a result of the brutal Nazi occupation.

4. The destruction of Belarus and the Ukraine. During the German occupation, the Germans went on a rampage and destroyed factories, monuments, etc, causing extraordinary property damage.

Walter N. Sanning has debunked all of the Stalinist allegations, but he's the only Revisionist that I know of to have tackled them.

Sanning's account goes like this: before and during the German invasion of the USSR, Stalin deported some 25 to 30 million Soviets to Siberia, including 5 million from the Ukraine. His retreating troops blew up everything left behind in Belarus and the Ukraine, causing a famine in the latter, and destroying the industrial capacity of both countries. They also destroyed railway lines so that the Germans couldn't send supplies through. As a result, the Germans couldn't feed their 2 to 3 million Russian POWs (who were already starving at the start of the war). As for the 25 to 30 million Soviets in Siberia, most of them ended up dying there or en route. At least 10 to 15 million died, in what has to be the greatest mass murder of the century.

The strange thing is, the Soviet propaganda stories are half-true - after all, 2 to 3 million POWs really did die in Nazi captivity, whereas 6 million or even 1 million Jews didn't. You'd think, then, that these stories would be exploited by the Holocaustians to the hilt...

Unfortunately, of all the Revisionists, only Sanning has tackled these stories. Most other Revisionists are tied up with Treblinka, Auschwitz, etc. That's a shame, as the survival of these allegations prevents, I think, the building of bridges between today's Germans and Russians, the majority of whom believe all that 'Great Patriotic War' guff.

Rupert.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Sep 07, 2003 4:14 am)

Rupert, Welcome to the Forum.

You raise interesting points. The problem is that you seem to ignore the 'holocaust' as alleged. It IS the '6,000,000 Jews', 'gas chambers', 1-2 million Jews allegedly shot by the Einsatzgruppen, and the alleged 'state planned genocide of Jews'. And they're all frauds.

Auschwitz & Treblinka are the very symbols of the myth, hence Revisionists have cut them to shreds....among the many equally absurd sub-plots in the story.

While the fate of POWs on all sides is interesting, it is certainly not the 'holocaust' as it is marketed. And yes, there is propaganda aplenty about the POW issue that is used by the 'holocau$t' Industry as bait. So, in that regard there is a bit of a tie-in.

Did some Russian POWs die? You bet. "2-3 million" in German hands? I have not seen verification.
Remember the Allies forcibly returned huge numbers of Soviet POWs (Operation Keelhaul, I believe it was called) to the USSR after the war which resulted in massive executions and shipment to Siberia of these Soviet POWs (a slower death, but death nonetheless); the Communists didn't think too highly of those that were captured....they demanded that they fight to the death. This Allied operation undoubtedly resulted in many of these deaths being blamed on Germany.

Let's not forget the vast numbers of German POWs who died while in Allied hands. The Allies certainly do not have the moral high ground in regards to the treatment of POWs. Not in the slightest.

Having said all of this, I do agree with you that German/Russian bridge building could prove useful in further demolishing of the 'holocau$t' as alleged.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby SergeyRomanov » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Sep 10, 2003 3:10 pm)

before and during the German invasion of the USSR, Stalin deported some 25 to 30 million Soviets to Siberia


And what is the evidence for this?

most of them ended up dying there or en route


And for this.

Evidence, please.

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Postby montague » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:46 am)

Read the book.

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Postby SergeyRomanov » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:20 pm)

Read the book


Nope, that's not the evidence. Provide the evidence, please. I challenge you to do so. No dodging.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:46 pm)

montague:

You stated:

Sanning's account goes like this: before and during the German invasion of the USSR, Stalin deported some 25 to 30 million Soviets to Siberia...


Please provide the citation as requested, book title & page number would be helpful.

Thanks, Moderator
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Sep 12, 2003 11:36 am)

The early chapters in Sanning's 'Dissolution of European Jewry' deal with the massive Soviet deportation numbers. I assume this is where the numbers came from. There are tables galore available for perusal.

- H.
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Postby SergeyRomanov » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Sep 17, 2003 5:31 pm)

Since Hannover has the book, I challenge him to provide the proof for the initial claim and to defend the numbers, not just cite them.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Sep 17, 2003 6:20 pm)

Montague posted the numbers, I simply stated where I assume his numbers came from.....see the original post in this thread.

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Postby SergeyRomanov » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 2:47 am)

Dodging is not allowed here. Either you think Sanning's numbers are correct or not. If yes, defend them. If not - good :lol:

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:40 am)

Please, no distortions, I have dodged nothing as I did not post the numbers, Montague did. Again, I refer you to the 1st post in the thread.

I'll let Montague speak for himself, but it's possible that he added up various tables that Sanning has given which show Soviet deportation numbers from various regions of their Communist empire to the interior of the USSR.

Any numbers that Sanning uses are thoroughly referenced in his book: 'Dissolution of Eastern European Jewry'. In fact, Sanning states that most of his numbers are from Jewish sources. :P

- Hannover
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Postby SergeyRomanov » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 10:10 am)

I did not post the numbers


Nobody said you did. But I challenge you to prove the numbers correct or to state that they're incorrect. You're dodging. Where's Moderator when he is needed?

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 11:27 am)

Sergey Romanov,

Hannover did not post the numbers you wish to challenge. He is not responsible for defending someone else's post. Your accusations of 'dodging' are unfounded.

You seem to be obsessing over Hannover, please cease.

Thanks, Moderator
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Postby montague » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:35 pm)

Sergey, I can't "prove" that millions died in Siberia during wartime. Indeed, how does one prove such a thing? I certainly don't have it in my capacity to dig up 10-15 million corpses there for examination.

You can find Sanning's book online at a Revisionist site. Unfortunately, it's in French and German - languages I can't read. So I had to undertake the task of feeding the text into one of those online translation machines. Is it possible I got my account of Sanning wrong? Not really.

You can find the gist of Sanning's work in this PDF chapter from 'Dissecting the Holocaust':

http://vho.org/GB/Books/dth/7.pdf

Also, this excellent essay by Sanning:

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v06/v06p-91_Sanning.html

Nikolai Tolstoy has written a book called 'Stalin's Secret War' (1981) which details the deportations. I haven't read it yet - it's too depressing.

The Soviet casualties of WWII, in Sanning's work, come to:

Servicemen: 13 million

Civilians: 19 million

Which adds up to 32 million, or 25% of the Soviet population.

Rupert.

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Postby montague » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 12:44 pm)

Sorry, the last line should read 25% of the Soviet male population had died, and that this is included in the 32 million figure.

Rupert.


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