Strange article on David Irving, quasi-Exterminationist

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montague
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Strange article on David Irving, quasi-Exterminationist

Postby montague » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Sep 16, 2003 3:03 am)

Hi all

I thought I’d draw my attention to an article by John ‘Birdman’ Bryant on Irving. It’s a disgusting and libelous article which is based on a pamphlet by an Englishman called Alexander Baron, who has written some Revisionist-sounding things but is generally regarded by all as a weirdo. I have to apologise to all in advance for its content.

Baron, who is preoccupied with the subject of homosexuality - although claiming not to be one himself - claims that Irving tried to seduce him; but that’s not what concerns me here. What does is his claim that Irving is really a double agent for Exterminationism. Jewry pretends to despise Irving, and touts him as Revisionist no.1: but that’s just a ploy to get Revisionist-minded people to read Irving’s books and believe what’s written there about alleged Nazi atrocities against Jews.

Irving bases many of his atrocity stories on the transcripts of ‘overheard’ conversations by Nazis in British captivity. Hannover’s comments on them here at the forum - which point out a few internal contradictions in those accounts - have really got me wondering about Mr Irving.

Anyway, here’s the relevant part:

http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/NetLoss ... rving.html

(d) Another important function which Irving might be performing for Organized Jewry is discussed by Baron on the last page of his book:

"Why should Zionists want Irving to deny the Holocaust, the reader might ask? They don't, but they can read the writing on the wall, and they are desperate men. Not only is their wire-pulling becoming increasingly obvious, even to the people who cannot be any conceivable stretch of the imagination be branded anti-Semitic, including ordinary Jews, but their wailing and whining is finally beginning to piss people off as well. It's no longer sufficient for them to pull out the photographs of the mass graves at Belsen and scream 'Isn't six million Jews enough?' every time their murdering co-racialists perpetrate another Sabra and Shatilla, or gun down a young Palestinian girl on her way to buy milk. They know their lie is crumbling, and with it both their ill-deserved sympathy and the stranglehold they have over both the Western media and the minds of their own people, so what they have done is build up Irving into some kind of super-Holocaust Denier, the Godfather of Holocaust Revisionism ... And, when he announces that he was wrong, as he did, pragmatically, with the Hitler diaries (he [first declared them false, then later] claimed that they were genuine, knowing them to be false, but hoping to stay in the limelight and pocket a few more bucks), that he has been led up the garden path, conned, or even that he has been a willing tool of the mythical international Nazi conspiracy, Irving will say the Holocaust is true, and, whatever the academics think, whatever the laws of physics [that render the Orthodox Jewish Version of the Holocaust impossible], the public, gullible goyim and paranoid Jews alike, will believe."

The facts which have emerged since the publication of Baron's book which offer at least some support for his theory are the following:

* In the 2002 edition of _Hitler's War_ (pp 447-58), Irving states that there was some mass killing of Jews by the nazis 'in the east', mostly by shooting, but in some cases accomplished by 'gas vans', in part as a preemptive effort against the eastern (Soviet) Jews, who were notorious for turning into 'partisans'. In addition, Irving argues that Hitler had no responsibility for these killings, which were in the hands of Goebbels, Himmler and other lesser figures; and in fact he quotes Hitler as saying that he did not wish to deal further with the Jewish Question till after the end of the war. This is apparently as close as Irving gets to embracing the Orthodox Jewish Version of the Holocaust which alleges the killing of 'six million Jews' in 'gas chambers', but it does represent a certain degree of backtracking on revisionism's claims, and thus could be seen as support of sorts for the Orthodox Jewish Version. It also opens the possibility that Irving will make 'further discoveries' which will confirm the OJV.

[...]

Rupert.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Sep 16, 2003 9:57 am)

I'm not sure if I completely agree with Birdman, but Irving does seem to 'pull his punches'....to say the least. In the long run it just doesn't matter. Revisionists have the 'holocau$t' Industry in a stranglehood which cannot be broken (regardless of the desperate, dead-give-away tactics by the Industry) and the public is getting wise.

Below are examples of Irving's 'inconsistencies' which could lead to certain conclusions about him:

====================================
- A fake 'document' which Irving curiously accepts:

This piece of paper is pushed off as 'evidence', but upon inspection we see that it is nothing more that a piece of paper. It's a crude fake attempting to claim that 363,211 Russian Jews had been executed.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/Meldung291242.html
and
http://vho.org/VffG/1999/2/Image24.jpg

This alleged "document" is particularily clumsy, and quite absurd.

take note:

- no official stationary
- no signatures
- initials that could be easily added
- no indication of typist...standard procedure
- no forensic/physical confirmation via mass graves for numbers given
- could have been typed by anyone
- completely unverifiable
====================================

discussions on examples of alleged recorded conversations which do not stand up to examination, yet Irving curiously accepts them:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=15

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=366

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=345

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=228

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Temporary on hold » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Sep 16, 2003 4:08 pm)

I don't buy it. Irving is idiosyncratic but he knows who are the traditional enemies of freedom.

During the Lipstadt trial he repeatedly tried to show that he was a reasonable person by giving a little ground here and there. Admitting a little gassing, etc. This was a disastrously wrong tactic as it turned out and it left him with a number of things to explain. But he is no secret agent for the traditional enemies of freedom.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Sep 17, 2003 1:44 pm)

I agree with Temporary on hold. Irving is beyond redemption now. He has decided to confront Jewry and the Industry it promotes, and the scorn and contempt that the confrontation is emitting, is without doubt genuine. There is simply no way that Irving could ever be rehabilitated (Even by scum like Bronfman, Hammer and Murdoch) this clash is from the heart.

I think you will find Irving's place of residence in Key west is a friends.

To fly from London to America is only £250,00. Big deal ! He only goes once a year, or maybe twice. £250.00 is peanuts. Obviously he has financial backers, but they will pale in comparison compared to the ADL and similar trash.

Irving's Family tree goes back to 'Robert the Bruce', hardly a Jew. When he said he was half Jewish, that is known as English Sarcasm, i.e 'Taking the piss.'

No, whoever the weirdo Baron is, it seems like he is the Jew, and a shit-stirring viper at that.

I would say Irving has sacrificed a tremendous amount for his beliefs, maybe not as much as poor old Zundel, but the man has had a lot of vile hate campaigns aimed at him, and I do not believe, that this is some sort of friendly game.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Sep 18, 2003 9:47 am)

Montague introduced:

I thought I’d draw my attention to an article by John ‘Birdman’ Bryant on Irving. It’s a disgusting and libelous article which is based on a pamphlet by an Englishman called Alexander Baron, who has written some Revisionist-sounding things but is generally regarded by all as a weirdo. I have to apologise to all in advance for its content.

===============================================

Baron is a total wing nut. After reading some of his stuff in my first encounters with alt.revisionism some ten years ago I realized not to read any more would result in no lose whatsoever.

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Re: Strange article on David Irving, quasi-Exterminationist

Postby Turpitz » 6 years 11 months ago (Fri Oct 26, 2012 12:28 pm)

I have to eat my words and bow to this 'Birdman' as he certainly had Irving's number a long time ago and I was totally in the wrong. Most of what he prophesied about Irving has borne fruition, so I take my hat off to you.


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