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ASMarques
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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 7:44 pm)

Halo wrote:How about abe foxman and his claw of justice :lol:


Less apropriate IMO, since he is not so narrowly connected to the "Holocaust" scam as to the general Jewish lobby thing.

I think depicting the faces of jailed revisionists is important, and your first image depicting Zündel is perfect for that purpose: concise message, name, face and that's all. One for each would be nicely effective IMO.

Image

For a whole line of them, you could diminish the size of the image and shorten the names, in order to be able to use the same type for them as you do for the "crime" and keep them legible. Thus, simply "Zündel," "Rudolf," etc.

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:04 pm)

The problem with changing the head in the backround is: Its very, very hard to get such an "noise" effect of a bad TV signal as seen on the pic´s backround... these pink interferences are hard to imitate.
At least for me its a hard thing to do at the moment (needed to find and read a tutorial on such an effect first).

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:08 pm)

Halo wrote:The problem with changing the head in the backround is: Its very, very hard to get such an "noise" effect of a bad TV signal as seen on the pic´s backround... these pink interferences are hard to imitate.
At least for me its a hard thing to do at the moment (needed to find and read a tutorial on such an effect first).


But the image above looks quite adequate to me. It should be easy to do the same for the others, i.e. keep the purplish background shadow of BB's head and superimpose a black & white new head. After all the images are supposed to be used in a small non-printable size.

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:13 pm)

Ah now I get it, you mean replacing zundels head with rudolf´s for example? Yeah thats an easy thing to do, but first i wanted to try another scene... I am currently working on it :D

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:13 pm)

Image

Image

Image sizes, correct drop shadows... both pics the same frame and such will be fixed.

Just to give an idea now. I think they work well together.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:03 pm)

Halo wrote:Just to give an idea now. I think they work well together.


To be honest, I don't like the second one at all. Why? Not because it is not graphically well rendered, but because it doesn't deliver an immediately clear coherent message. How would you try to describe the scene? Rudolf in jail being informed that he is jailed for thoughtcrime (not "mindcrime" BTW)? Or perhaps, in order to make a little more sense, the average citizen at large -- but really in jail himself -- being informed of the same? It's not as clear as the very simple Zündel message that you immediately understand and can describe thus: "The Party broadcasting a new triumph to the average passive man in the street: the arrest of a criminal whose guilt consists in having indulged in anti-Party thought."
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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:37 pm)

ASMarques wrote:... he is jailed for thoughtcrime (not "mindcrime" BTW)...


The Newspeak word "crimethink" may also be used. In Orwell's 1984, as you know, Newspeak was a further linguistic step the Ingsoc Party was developing as a means to deprive people of the ability to think and express themselves in non-conformist individualist terms.

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 6 months ago (Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:46 pm)

I have a suggestion.

Perhaps the big boss will take some time to think about all the distantly related topics that may have a bearing on the subject of the Hoax, and may throw upon it a greater light, yet cannot be said to directly relate in time or space to the hoax.

For example; We are necessarily dealing with the lies, deceptions and delusions and agenda, of a peculiar age old religion and it's followers. Or is it a religion? What do Jews believe, that they should try to profit off such slander and deceit?

Sometimes staying on topic is in the mind of the scribe and is not immediately seen or appreciated, but long before then, the scribe is usually toast!

Like I say, I only have a suggestion. I don't have any solutions and I know what a can of worms looks like.

PS. Whatever you do, remember it's all about debate. Keep it textual and fast, don't go toooo graphical, I'm on dial up.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:36 am)

This is status quo so far. We have 1 (admittedly big) graphic (=header) then the forums start. Not 3, 4 or 5 segments as it is now.

I agree with marques´criticism, that its still almost a full page to scroll down, but you dont get confused with an "information overflow" as it is now- its just a single graphic- we can handle that.

Image


On the bottom we have a kind of "graphics section". All these graphics do not show up during your travels through the "'Holocaust' Debate / Comments / News"- section, they pop up only on the "index" page. So I guess, the bottom of the site can be a bit "graphical"... without endangering the site to be missunderstood as a "myspace" marketplace :P
Also you need to purposefully scroll down to see them- its not like they were in the way of something...

If they are too big in the current state, downsizing them a bit is no problem (not every of the graphics works in thumbnail size, please keep that in mind though)

@Marques: You propose to use the same pic i used for Zundel for Rudolf aswell? But that looked a bit like "cloning" wouldnt it? I agree that the current Rudolf backround isnt the best, but I hesitate a bit to use the same again. Another scene where a guy is standing in front of a telescreen would be perfect. I am gonna search youtube for such a scene... And the community is free to help me with that aswell^^

The "Questionmark" spaceholder, I am uncertain of what to do with it. It could be used for an entirely new link or it could be used for Dresden.
Feel free to give input and feedback ;)

Halo


P.S.: The shadow of the yellow sign and the text will be reworked.
I still need a good text proposal for it. The current shadow doesnt match the light source of the VHO sign- this will be adressed.


another option would be, to srew the 3D Graphics on the bottom, and replace them with with the same effect that I used for zundel and rudolf--> retangular image, white frame, drop shadow. In case you find the 3d and drop images wouldnt fit together.


Image

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:20 am)

Halo wrote:@Marques: You propose to use the same pic i used for Zundel for Rudolf aswell? But that looked a bit like "cloning" wouldnt it?


I see no problem with that, since the situation is the same. And, of course, the individual faces and names would be there anyway. I imagine the names would be reduced to one word and enlarged (see my other posts), and I don't like very much the enormous image with the handcuffs and the judge etc., but I explained that previously.

Actually I had some difficulty understanding it, because I didn't immediately decipher the somewhat obscure hammer and didn't get the notion that a judge was intended. I would have preferred a 1984 style imagery. If you're going to use it, I think it should be made much smaller, in order not to take so much vertical space, but that would make it even more difficult to immediately understand the small figure (good face, unfriendly but with no racial stereotyping present).

You should understand I'm criticizing because I give great importance to the immediacy of the message. This is an entry point and people are not supposed to spend much time here, catching semi-occult nuances.
Last edited by ASMarques on Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Halo » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 1:31 am)

Image

I made it in a hurry, its a sloppy job. I mirrored the scene and changed the guy´s clothing color and hair color.

Do you like it Better?
I really dont wanna simply clone the pic. This is the best attempt so far I think, Id propose I make the rudolf pic like this once I have more time.
The zundel pic will get a pimp also (no changes in context, just cosmetics).

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:06 am)

Halo wrote:I made it in a hurry, its a sloppy job. I mirrored the scene and changed the guy´s clothing color and hair color.


No problem. One sketches in order to explain concepts, not to present finished jobs.

Do you like it Better?


I told you about my opinion. I don't know if others will agree, but I would prefer this kind of scheme:

1) First horizontal level: the large "Justitia" horizontal box you designed, with the scales brought into prominence, wording to be discussed but the original words look quite good to me.

2) Second horizontal level (not taking too much vertical space): the "revisionists in jail" faces, with the links to Zündel and Rudolf, and some sort of central design under the message "TRUTH MATTERS" (this is the sort of emphasis I prefer) that could use your "Holocaust curtain & judge" image, perhaps with some alterations (aesthetic, not conceptual).

3) Extensive third horizontal level: the topics of the forum themselves, leading to which the page's purpose it is.

4) Fourth level: other links etc.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 2:46 am)

ASMarques wrote:2) Second horizontal level (not taking too much vertical space): the "revisionists in jail" faces, with the links to Zündel and Rudolf, and some sort of central design under the message "TRUTH MATTERS" (this is the sort of emphasis I prefer) that could use your "Holocaust curtain & judge" image, perhaps with some alterations (aesthetic, not conceptual).


I meant this 2nd level, beneath the FAQ, Search etc. links, should be predominantly horizontal, and could be organized along the following lines:

LEFT: the Zündel "thougthcrime" image, linking to the Zundelsite, and the words "FREE ZÜNDEL" under the image.

CENTER: the central design I mentionned above, with the words "TRUTH MATTERS" under the image.

RIGHT: the Rudolf "thougthcrime" image, linking to VHO, and the words "FREE RUDOLF" under the image.

If any space is left without loss of visibility, pictorial mention should be made to other jailed revisionists such as Mahler and Stolz.

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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 5:46 am)

Great work again, Halo!

Halo wrote:The "Questionmark" spaceholder, I am uncertain of what to do with it. It could be used for an entirely new link or it could be used for Dresden.


ASMarques wrote:...and some sort of central design under the message "TRUTH MATTERS"


I think we should in some way make use of the 1984-quotation you have mentioned above:


»He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past.«

George Orwell, »1984«


because this is exactly what it is all about.


ASMarques wrote:...but an adequate face for the "Watching you" bill would be that of Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Wiesenthal Center, a regular inciter to persecution of revisionists. Of course, another photo where this guy wouldn't be smiling his silly Hollywood smile would be much better.


What about Szymon Wizenthal, aka Simon Wiesenthal?



Image


ASMarques wrote:If any space is left without loss of visibility, pictorial mention should be made to other jailed revisionists such as Mahler and Stolz.


I've looked for some pictures of them:

Horst Mahler:

Image



Sylvia Stolz:

Image


Image



Gerd Honsik:

Image


There are also some great cartoons, which could be used:


Image



Image



Image

[»The sarkophage is collapsing!«] :D


I particulary like this one:

Image

[»Who has overthrown it?« »Faurisson!«] :D


Greetings

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 6 months ago (Wed Apr 01, 2009 7:34 am)

Reinhard wrote:
ASMarques wrote:...and some sort of central design under the message "TRUTH MATTERS"


I think we should in some way make use of the 1984-quotation you [Halo] have mentioned above:

»He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past.«

George Orwell, »1984«


because this is exactly what it is all about.


The quotation in itself is great from the literary standpoint and indeed very accurate, but in our context it leaves an undertaste suggestive of a struggle for the same kind of power, i.e. as if we wished we -- not the other guys -- were the ones controlling the present in order to control the future through our version of the past etc.

In my humble opinion, more than a few modern-day NSists would go along with that. Though they will not clearly state as much, and possibly not even be conscious of it, it's a built-in feature of their much admired nationalistic brand of authoritarian socialism (i.e. collectivism driven from above, with patriotic fetishism as both a means and an end).

The message I prefer is the one that seems to me to best condensate the purpose of revisionism. I'm very used to hear the reply "what do I care whether the correct figure was 6 million or not." The reply one gets when one tries to make folks like, say, Justin Raimondo of Antiwar -- himself a very effective demolisher of the falsehood in traditional wisdom -- understand the aims of WW2 revisionism is something along these lines: "I'll never understand why revisionists make such a fuss over such trifles; since the Nazis are bad guys, what's the importance of the matter anyway?" (not a literal quote, but that's the gist of his argument).

So, my first choice for a slogan would be the reply to that question: "THE TRUTH MATTERS," period.

Reinhard wrote:
ASMarques wrote:...but an adequate face for the "Watching you" bill would be that of Rabbi Marvin Hier of the Wiesenthal Center, a regular inciter to persecution of revisionists. Of course, another photo where this guy wouldn't be smiling his silly Hollywood smile would be much better.


What about Szymon Wizenthal, aka Simon Wiesenthal?


Even better, but unfortunately he also seems to have spent most of his time smiling, with good reason, no doubt. An odd sort of incomplete smile, but not the sort of intimidating stance Big Brother would adopt.

I developed this weak spot for Rabbi Hier since I heard him claiming on TV that the Swiss (at the time being held up for money) had "large camps where they put the fugitive Jews with big dogs that ate them (sic)." I mean, he got so carried away that he actually said that, while white spots of saliva were forming at the corners of his mouth, and, if I'm not mistaken, even repeated it without correcting: the Swiss dogs did not not only bit, but actually ate the Jews, in his opinion. Obviously the intoxicating odor of money was in the air and it was opening everybody's appetite. Since then, I couldn't let go of this mental image of Swiss St. Bernards feasting on Jews instead of giving them a drink.

Wiesenthal, of course, is equally ridiculous, but in a less obvious, nastier, way. And besides, he is no longer alive.

As for the pictures of revisionists, they look good to me. Preference should go to serious-looking ones, like Zündel's. If in 1984 context, the sort of thing Big Brother would put up should be aimed at. We're not yet there and most people will understand that our own ironic depictions of the miserable powerless vermin that still care for the truth are not far from what they are already being daily fed. I think Halo's depiction of Zündel is a very powerful one: it conveys both the injustice of a good man being deprived of his freedom and the sinister relationship between the powers that be and the ordinary passive citizen ignorant enough not even to be shamed or feel the evil of the situation. Even Zündel's expression is perfect, with a Christ-like look to it, something the Party might indeed be using since moral values are beyond its understanding.

Reinhard wrote:I particulary like this [cartoon]:

Image

[»Who has overthrown it?« »Faurisson!«] :D


Yes, so do I. And accurate it certainly is.


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