Himmler's so called "Extermination of Jews" speech

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Hektor
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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Hektor » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:40 am)

gbrecht wrote:I find it odd if the speech is real how he would say Evacuation, then extermination. Either the parts about extermination were cut into his speech, or he was saying extermination ironically, or as in the extermination of Judaism in Germany.
The parts of the speech important to believers are full of odd phrasing, as I pointed out about "Himmler" claiming "Ausrottung" would be part of the NS program - See my posting on the first page.
gbrecht wrote:Either way it makes no sense, why they would record some ultra secret speech if he was going to talk about Exterminating Jews.
He also uses the word evacuation in his notes and not extermination, but then says extermination in the speech. It almost seems like his mention of extermination is just cut into the speech.
And any intelligence services would have the means and technology to manipulate such a recording in that way. If I recall it correctly the means for the recording were also quite odd as well.
gbrecht wrote:The promoters say that the nazis destroyed the records of the holocaust, but then they leave this gem out there, that isn't noticed until 1970?
To my knowledge the speech was introduced as in Nuremberg as PS-1919 . You are of course quite right that such a find is quite funny. But then the "evidence" presented by Holocaustians tends to be quite funny all the time. And if it's then critically dismissed due to it's dubious or obviously fraudulent nature, the Holocaustians response it that "Deniers dismiss all the documents/evidence as frauds, there is no way to argue here." Well, why not come up with some water-tight evidence then.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby gbrecht » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:09 pm)

I know they presented the speech at Nuremberg but didn't they not find the tape till much later? Or am i mistaken?

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Zulu » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:18 am)

I propose another perspective. I think that the Nazi regime could perfectly have extremist people who could employ against Jews or other "enemies" the same terms that Himmler presumably used in his speech.
However, all that is expressed by a politician or a high ranked extremist is not forcibly executed by the government. To verify if such extremist desires were actually executed you must find material proofs of it.
On that aspect, you can read declarations of Israeli extremists and you'll understand what I mean.
For instance:

Chabad rabbi: Jews should kill Arab men, women and children during war
Rabbi Manis Friedman clarifies his controversial comment as quote from Torah permissible in case of self-defense.

...

"The only way to fight a moral war is the Jewish way: Destroy their holy sites. Kill men, women and children (and cattle)," Friedman wrote in response to the question posed by Moment Magazine for its "Ask the Rabbis" feature.

Friedman argued that if Israel followed this wisdom, there would be "no civilian casualties, no children in the line of fire, no false sense of righteousness, in fact, no war."

"I don't believe in Western morality," he wrote. "Living by Torah values will make us a light unto the nations who suffer defeat because of a disastrous morality of human invention."
...

http://www.haaretz.com/news/chabad-rabb ... r-1.277616

Did that guy pronounced that speech? Yes
So what?
Did Israel implemented such policy?

More:

Was all what that extremist Avidgor Lieberman (Israeli Govt Member) said actually executed by his govt?

Let see:

Avigdor Lieberman, chair of the far-right Yisrael Beitenu (Israel Our Home) party, joined Ehud Olmert's government as deputy prime minister and Minister of Strategic
Threats in October 2006. As a cabinet member, Lieberman is an integral part of all strategic discussions. Lieberman, who is known for his advocacy of "transfer," or ethnic cleansing, of Palestinian citizens in Israel, as well as his declaration that Palestinian members of the Knesset who meet with Palestinian leaders from the West Bank and Gaza should be executed as traitors, immigrated to Israel from Moldova at the age of 20.

...

Some of Avigdor Lieberman's infamous statements:

# In 1998, Lieberman called for the flooding of Egypt by bombing the Aswan Dam in retaliation for Egyptian support for Yasser Arafat.

# In 2001, as Minister of National Infrastructure, Lieberman proposed that the West Bank be divided into four cantons, with no central Palestinian government and no possibility for Palestinians to travel between the cantons.

# In 2002, the Israeli daily Yedioth Ahronoth quoted Lieberman in a Cabinet meeting saying that the Palestinians should be given an ultimatum that "At 8am we'll bomb all the commercial centers ... at noon we'll bomb their gas stations ... at two we'll bomb their banks ..."

# In 2003, the Israeli daily Haaretz reported that Lieberman called for thousands of Palestinian prisoners held by Israel to be drowned in the Dead Sea and offered to provide the buses to take them there.

# In May 2004, Lieberman proposed a plan that called for the transfer of Israeli
territory with Palestinian populations to the Palestinian Authority. Likewise, Israel would annex the major Jewish settlement blocs on the Palestinian West Bank. If applied, his plan would strip roughly one-third of Israel's Palestinian citizens of their citizenship. A "loyalty test" would be applied to those who desired to remain in Israel. This plan to trade territory with the Palestinian Authority is a revision of Lieberman's earlier calls for the forcible transfer of Palestinian citizens of Israel from their land. Lieberman stated in April 2002 that there was "nothing undemocratic about transfer."

# Also in May 2004, he said that 90 percent of Israel's 1.2 million Palestinian
citizens would "have to find a new Arab entity" in which to live beyond Israel's
borders. "They have no place here. They can take their bundles and get lost," he said.

# In May 2006, Lieberman called for the killing of Arab members of Knesset who meet with members of the Hamas-led Palestinian Authority.

</>

http://electronicintifada.net/bytopic/people/658.shtml

I am sure that it is possible to find a lot more of extremist declarations from far right orators of US Army or Israeli people since the end of WWII...

Conclusion:

Even if Himmler actually said such discourse, what does that mean?
That he was a Nazi extremist?
So what?

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Sep 27, 2010 1:57 pm)

gbrecht wrote:I know they presented the speech at Nuremberg but didn't they not find the tape till much later? Or am i mistaken?

That's what is implied in the first post of this thread but I have no clue as to how and when it surfaced. Can anyone help?

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Re: Re:

Postby Hannover » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Sep 27, 2010 3:54 pm)

Hektor wrote:
Hannover wrote:Another yawner long since demolished by research.

This alleged (recorded) speech, as German judge Staeglich has adroitly pointed out, is a hodgepodge of non-sequitors, nonsense, and re-worked text.
see: http://www.codoh.com/trials/tristagch2.html

- There are missing pages, retyped pages by different hands, even repaginated.
...
Exactly which pages would that be? It would be interesting to see in what way the "critical part" is affected by this.
Also, as for the sound recording, is there one for the whole speech or are there only recordings for the "critical parts" that get's repeated over and over again? ...

Since there are no page numbers given on the text that is linked to, I suggest scrolling down about 40% to find:
Heinrich Himmler

After Hitler's speeches, it is mainly the speeches of Himmler in which one seeks to find circumstantial evidence for the alleged racially motivated murder of the Jews. Speeches and excerpts of speeches of his supposedly relating to this subject have been published with a commentary by Agnes F. Peterson and Bradley F. Smith under the rather sensational title Heinrich Himmler: Geheimreden 1933 bis 1945.* Of course, it is absurd to call a speech delivered before a relatively large audience "secret." Nor is it known whether Himmler ever designated any of his speeches so. Evidently the title was chosen in the hope of selling more copies of the book.

Scroll down from there for much more. BTW, that's not CODOH's Bradley Smith.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Zulu » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:08 am)

A review of available documents should allow interesting findings like that one:

'I don't want any of them [persons of Japanese ancestry] here. They are a dangerous element. There is no way to determine their loyalty... It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese. American citizenship does not necessarily determine loyalty... But we must worry about the Japanese all the time until he is wiped off the map.'

Testimony of John L. DeWitt, April 13, 1943, House Naval Affairs Subcommittee to Investigate Congested Areas, Part 3, pp. 739-40 (78th Cong ., 1st Sess.), cited in Korematsu v. United States,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_A ... internment

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby David Baker » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:16 pm)

You folks are ignoring an important exhibit pertaining to this subject: I believe there was a W-A-R going on in Europe at the time of this speech. I'll venture to guess that Americans were also mentioned prominently as fodder for those German commander's rally-the-troops pep talks, as were soldiers from other nations. Look at all the names used to describe our current villians in Arab countries, and the bellicosity of those who seek to instill American enmity against them. Always remember this prudent admonition: The first casualty of war is the truth.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:52 am)

David,
I believe there was a W-A-R going on in Europe
A major point of Holocaust propaganda is "Don't mention the war!" (British John Cleese fans will get the reference.) So much that actually happened (as opposed to the alleged extermination), ghettos, deportations, labour camps, reprisals against civilians, can be explained, if not justified, by the conditions of a total war where, on both sides, means were subjugated to the end of victory or survival. It is only when taken out of this context that it can be made to look like mindless persecution.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby JustTheTruth » 9 years 5 months ago (Wed Oct 06, 2010 12:16 pm)

Everyone forgets that the Joows WERE, by this time, the ENEMY of the Nazis. But the Joows had no homeland to wage a normal war against and were already occupying German territory (discretely or not-so-discretely) like a rodent that needed exterminating (in the Nazi mind that is) from ones' home.

The Joows had already declared war on Germany because they did not like some of the Nazi policies concerning Joows.

So in the Nazi mind, this was the way to 'clean house' so-to-speak.

The Joows always disregard their OWN contribution to their circumstances.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 5 months ago (Wed Oct 06, 2010 1:45 pm)

Justthetruth

You don't help your argument one jot by writing "the Joows". On the contrary. Any half-way normally intelligent person would not need that pointing out. Yours is just the sort of post they copy paste into RODOH.

Nevertheless, yes, I am aware that the Jews were perceived as a source both of organised resistance and black marketeers. Some measures were needed to contain this danger, and wartime measures are rarely fair.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby Jazz » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Nov 28, 2010 8:18 pm)

I agree, if this speech was so top secret why would they have recorded it? And Himmler supposedly says that it's a difficult subject but it's easily said that:
Himmler wrote:"The Jewish people is being exterminated," every Party member will tell you, "perfectly clear, it's part of our plans, we're eliminating the Jews, exterminating them, ha!, a small matter."


http://www.holocaust-history.org/himmle ... text.shtml

By the way there's a Q&A page on revisionism and the holocaust on this website ^

Talk about being deceiving! When I read stuff like that it just confirms that they're a bunch of lies tenfold. I was wondering if there's like a 'devil's advocate' here? Or if someone's written to websites like holocaust-history.org to retrieve more 'knowledge'? Like asking when this recording of Himmler was found etc..

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Re:

Postby spaceboy » 7 years 5 months ago (Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:02 pm)

Hannover wrote:Another yawner long since demolished by research.

This alleged (recorded) speech, as German judge Staeglich has adroitly pointed out, is a hodgepodge of non-sequitors, nonsense, and re-worked text.
see: http://www.codoh.com/trials/tristagch2.html

- There are missing pages, retyped pages by different hands, even repaginated.

- Then we have a so called "secret" speech in front of thousands. Frankly the assertions about it are laughable.

- Yivo (Yiddish Scientific Institute) of New York was very active in the Rosenberg Ministry to process documents for submittal to the Nuremberg trials.

- members of the audience like SS-OGruF Gottlob Berger denied that Himmler was talking about the extermination of the Jews at all.

- To have a speech with such alleged secret content recorded? Right. SS General Berger did not recognize Himmler’s voice listening to the tape.

- In 1993, Robert Wolfe, supervisory archivist for captured German records at the National Archives admitted that a more precise translation of 'ausrottung' would be extirpation or tearing up by the roots. Wolfe also pointed out that in Himmler's handwritten notes for the speech, that Himmler used the term, 'judenevakuierung', or evacuation of the Jews, not 'extermination'.

- the complete lack of physical evidence to support the false assertions

- the complete lack of orders for the assumptions being made

Like so much else about this so called holocau$t, the Posen speech when scrutinized doesn't hold up.

forum participant Daniel Saez Lorente states:
Germar Rudolf has recently pointed out the the "sound recording" of the "secret speech" used a very primitive technology ["Nadeltontechnologie"] which was no longer commonly used in Germany. The Americans had no mastery of the lastest developments in German sound recording technology, so they presumably faked their recording using the only German technology available to them.

As for "Himmler's voice", well, ever listen to American movies dubbed into foreign languages? Let me tell you something, Gary Cooper or Humphrey Bogart in German or Italian sounds just like Gary Cooper or HUmphrey Bogart. They've got it down absolutely perfect. Voice imitators are a dime a dozen. All you need is a German Jew with some acting ability and... sounds like the story of the 911 "cell phones".... pull the other one.
As for "gespannt" in a happy sense, well...


Then we have some True Believers citing much later dictionaries claiming ausrotten as meaning 'extermination' (uprooting is it's real meaning) ... published in accordance with the propaganda about WWII. There's problems with that though:

- Here's something from a 1935 speech by Rudolf Hess:
Quote:

"National Socialist legislation has now introduced corrective measures against this over-alienization. I say corrective, because the proof that the Jews are not being ruthlessly rooted out [AUSGEROTTET] is that in Prussia alone 33,500 Jews are working in manufacturing and industry, and 89, 800 are engaged in trade and commerce; and that with only 1 per cent of the population Jewish, 17.5 per cent of our attorneys and in Berlin nearly half the registered doctors are still Jewish."

Ofcourse at this time (1935), the charge against the Nazis was not that they were ruthlessly exterminating the Jews.

- the 1936 anti-German book by Leon Feuchtwanger and others entitled DER GELBE FLECK: DIE AUSROTTUNG VON 500,000 DEUTSCHEN JUDEN.
Oops. I guess the silly 'exterminations' started in 1936 then.

- Hitler in his Berlin Sportpalast speech of February 1933: "den Marxismus und seine Begleiterscheinungen aus Deutschland AUSZUROTTEN" - "to eradicate Marxism and its accompanying phenomena from Germany". How does one explain "from Germany", "out of Germany" if the "auszurotten" only possible meaning was the physical extermination of living beings? Was Hitler thinking of gassing "Marxism" itself? If so, no gassings of German Marxists has been alleged before the war.

- It should also be pointed out that if Hitler's plan to exterminate the Jews was a secret plan that required the destruction of evidence at the end of the war, then why did he use the word ausrotten in so many of his public speeches prior to the war?'
Either way, the meaning of 'ausrotten' actually plays against the holocaust theory. If it did mean murder and the plan was public, then that means the Germans did not attempt to carry out a secret plan and did not attempt to destroy the evidence afterwards to conceal the plan. Clearly this has major implications reaching far beyond the meaning of one of Himmler's "secret" speeches. If the meaning of the word is figurative, then Himmler's speech is not proof of anything.

- As for SS general Gottlieb Berger's statements that he was at the Posen speech and Himmler said nothing about exterminating Jews, I suggest: NMT, vol 13. p. 457-487

- As for the desperate Pohl, his defense strategy was the same as others who were bound by the 'judicial notice' that gassings were fact even though there was no evidence. He had no choice but to play along. I suggest a different thread for Nuremberg and post war trials. Remember there was 'evidence' presented at Nuremberg for 'human soap' and homicidal 'steam chambers' which no one attempted to refute. Also, no one attempted to refute the allegations of German guilt at the Katyn mass murder site, we now know the Soviets did it.

- And it always comes down to claims of mass muder where there is no evidence to support it. The gas chambers are scientifically impossible as alleged and have been debunked ad nauseum by Revisionists, and the alleged 1,000,000 - 2,000,000 supposed mass shootings of thousands at a time in claimed known sites have produced no mass graves at those sites. Why is that?

more on the Posen speech:
viewtopic.php?t=372

This is too easy.

- Hannover




I tried going to this link "http://www.codoh.com/trials/tristagch2.html" but it doesn't seem to be working for me. I'm not sure if it's just a problem on my end and it's working for everybody else, or if it's a dead link.

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Re: Himmler's "Extermination of the Jews" speech

Postby cold beer » 3 years 3 months ago (Thu Dec 15, 2016 2:39 pm)

Wahrheit wrote:
Lamprecht wrote:Wahrheit:
Lamprecht, so is the speech authentic Himmler, or not?
That's the million dollar question in my opinion.
I am not entirely sure if this transcript was from Himmler's Posen speech, but I think it's most likely that it is not authentic.


I disagree that it could be declared "the million dollar question", perhaps one for $64,000 instead.

:D

Again, "mainstream" revisionists seem to have no problem accepting the authenticity of the speech. I don't think this is a reasonable argument until proof is offered to support it.

If not, what is the positive evidence that we have to suggest the tape/speech was forged?
Please see my above post and Hannover's post in this thread as well.


I still see no evidence. I see insinuations (Yivo forged documents because it possibly was around said files), arguments of personal incredulity towards the speech and the recording ("secret" speech in front of large audience, and low-grade recorder technology), but no EVIDENCE.

I think the tape should be tested by voice identification software, but I think as it sits now, the evidence from this speech and around it's date strongly suggest that the speech did occur, and that something nasty about the 'Judenevakuiereng' was said. The strongest thing fraud-allegers can rely on is a post-war testimony by a defendant, on trial for his life (every reason to deny), and whose thoughts differed within minutes (not Himmler >>> maybe Himmler, but different speech). Keep in mind that Himmler was giving many speeches during the war to various audiences. Another case of problematic witness memory?



You're upside down on who the onus of evidence is on.


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