Existence of drainage in alleged gas chambers.

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KostasL
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Existence of drainage in alleged gas chambers.

Postby KostasL » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 13, 2009 6:01 am)

Lamprecht wrote:Has anyone seen this:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... stry/blue/

Conditions in the Homicidal Gas chambers at Auschwitz Birkenau.

In other words, Prussian blue only forms with very high concentrations of CN-. The concentrations in the gas chambers were such that ambient water, given time to reach equilibrium, might theoretically have approached concentrations of 0.2 or 0.3 M - but more likely on the order of 0.1 M or below - as shown in Appendix I.

That such an equilibrium concentration could have been reached during the time span of an actual gassing is doubtful. This concentration is the equilibrium value. Absorption of HCN by water would undoubtedly be kinetically limited, i.e., the concentration would be limited by how fast the absorption process can occur. The equilibrium concentration assumes that the water has been exposed to HCN long enough that the rate of HCN leaving solution into the gas phase is equal to the rate at which HCN from the gas phase is being absorbed by the water.

Most importantly one must recall that the gas chambers were hosed down with water after gassings to clean up blood and excrement.15 Considering that the ambient water would have been quite small, providing 100 times dilution would have been trivial. This effect may actually be the explanation for the presence of Prussian blue in the delousing chambers yet its absence in the homicidal chambers. Some further research will be necessary to support this supposition conclusively.
AND
The experimental evidence that Prussian blue formation is not a necessity with the presence of HCN and construction materials is strong. Markiewicz et al. 17 were not able to produce such pigments in experiments with HCN and building materials. Additionally, Rudolf did an experiment in which he exposed a brick to HCN and yet found no detectable level of cyanides within the sensitivity of his analytical method. 18 These failures to produce Prussian blue are sufficient to demonstrate that its formation at detectable levels is not a necessary result of exposure to HCN.



So, "most importantly one must recall that the gas chambers were hosed down with water after gassings to clean up blood and excrement".

My question here is about the existence of a drainage system in the alleged gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Such is considered as absolutely necessary.

So, is there a drainage system in these "gas chambers" or not ?
When you realize that the Holocaust is a LIE, then all of a sudden, ALL your questions, ALL bizarre and strange things, disappear, and ALL things make sense, at last.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 13, 2009 11:29 am)

KostasL wrote:
So, is there a drainage system in these "gas chambers" or not ?


Well, Yes, No, Maybe!

check this page :

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/AuschwitzScrapbook/Tour/Auschwitz1/Auschwitz08E.html

All quote the website here:

The photo above shows a poster, which is located outside the gas chamber building in the Auschwitz main camp. On the left, the poster depicts the layout of the gas chamber building as it originally looked and on the right, the way it looked after the gas chamber was reconstructed in 1947.

The gas chamber room was originally used as a morgue to store corpses prior to cremation in the ovens. According to the model on the poster, neither the gas chamber nor the morgue included the area where a washroom was once located. This means that the victims had to go through two small rooms to get to the gas chamber, and that neither the morgue, nor the gas chamber, had a floor drain since the only drain that can be seen today is in the washroom area of the reconstructed gas chamber. The gas chamber, as seen by tourists today, includes the area of the former washroom.

When the building was converted into an air raid shelter in September 1944, a new door was cut into the gas chamber room, as shown on the right hand side of the poster.

During the time that the building was used as an air raid shelter, the morgue room was divided into four small rooms. During the reconstruction in 1947, the walls of the small rooms in the morgue were removed, along with the wall of the small washroom.

The washroom is designated by the letter b on the poster shown in the photo above. The wall of the washroom is shown as a dotted line in the diagram on the right, which shows the gas chamber the way it looks today.

The floor drain, which is now closed up, is in the middle of the former washroom, close to the wall on which the entrance door is located. A close-up of the drain is shown in the photo below. Directly in line with the floor drain is one of the drain holes for a toilet; the location of the toilets indicate that the floor drain was connected to a sewer line.


In Summary, The alleged Gas Chamber during the time of the alleged Gassing Operations lacked a Drainage system (not counting the Post war Contrivance the "washroom") so if it lacked a Drainage system, Does that not blow holes in the Pseudo Scientific Junk Science theory that water absorbed all of the HCN???

Moving onto "Bunker II" here :
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitzscrapbook/Tour/Birkenau/RuinsBunker2.html

The website owner clearly states :
The ruins show bricks set directly on the ground, with no foundation, as can be seen in the photo below.


Another contrivance, No foundation, no drainage system = Not a real Dwelling = No Gas Chamber
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Postby Älghuvud » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 13, 2009 12:16 pm)

I once read that there used to be a working drainage system in Auschwitz. This - at least the exterminationists say so - is the reason why during the war time the corpses could be burnt in the ravines, which nowadays would be impossible because the old systems were hardly (or possibly never) restored and therefore, if at all, are now working much less effectively. However, I don't know in how far this applies to the surroundings of the gas chambers.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 13, 2009 5:11 pm)

My question here is about the existence of a drainage system in the alleged gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau.


If the Russians couldn't be bothered to remove the shuttering on the underside of the roof slab, they are hardly going to be bothered with the complicated task of laying clay pipework below water level.

The industry probably knows this all too well, and that is why they guard these places like mother hens.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 13, 2009 9:36 pm)

I'm not that familiar with Architectural Building plans, but wouldn't the Auschwitz site plan at least show a rudimentary drainage system, even if it was only the floor drains in washrooms etc?
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed May 13, 2009 9:39 pm)

Turpitz wrote:
If the Russians couldn't be bothered to remove the shuttering on the underside of the roof slab, they are hardly going to be bothered with the complicated task of laying clay pipework below water level.



Or even attach a Chimney to the building.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri May 15, 2009 4:36 am)

There is definitely a drainage system there today, otherwise the underground cellers would fill up with water.

I presume that some kind of drainage system must have been put in place when the foundations of the building were dug out or the entire site would have been flooded during construction.

As regards to the actual "gas chambers", my opinion is they were constructed after liberation so the question has no real interest.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri May 15, 2009 5:47 am)

jnovitz wrote:There is definitely a drainage system there today, otherwise the underground cellers would fill up with water.

I presume that some kind of drainage system must have been put in place when the foundations of the building were dug out or the entire site would have been flooded during construction.

As regards to the actual "gas chambers", my opinion is they were constructed after liberation so the question has no real interest.


Well, i guess that German technical perfectionism indicates that my question, regarding the existence of drainage in underground morgue or other facilities, is pointless. :oops:

The same German technical perfectionism that also indicates that the alleged homicidal gass chambers could not be made by germans for such purpose. :oops:
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Postby Germania » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat May 16, 2009 1:07 am)

the drainaige system of the gaschamber is shown on blueprint 1300 of july 1942:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 297.01.jpe

Pressac considers the seperetion of its drainaige systems from the rest of the basement the first 'criminal trace' by the way...

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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat May 16, 2009 3:36 pm)

KostasL wrote:My question here is about the existence of a drainage system in the alleged gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Such is considered as absolutely necessary.

So, is there a drainage system in these "gas chambers" or not ?


I think there most certainly is, as Germania points out it does appear on some plans, but it really is a benign issue. Just because there is a drainage system in an underground cellar does not make it a Gaskammer. If that was so, most basements in America deserve their own holy shrines.

BTW if Lamprecht is reading this, try checking out this old thread regarding Prussian Blue traces and water:

"Those Prussian Blues Just Won't Wash"
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4600

If you would like, we can continue the discussion on that thread.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun May 17, 2009 10:10 am)

Wahrheit wrote:
KostasL wrote:My question here is about the existence of a drainage system in the alleged gas chambers of Auschwitz-Birkenau.

Such is considered as absolutely necessary.

So, is there a drainage system in these "gas chambers" or not ?


I think there most certainly is, as Germania points out it does appear on some plans, but it really is a benign issue. Just because there is a drainage system in an underground cellar does not make it a Gaskammer. If that was so, most basements in America deserve their own holy shrines.


Yeah, i already thought so. 8)

KostasL wrote :
Well, i guess that German technical perfectionism indicates that my question, regarding the existence of drainage in underground morgue or other facilities, is pointless.

The same German technical perfectionism that also indicates that the alleged homicidal gass chambers could not be made by germans for such purpose.

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Postby muller » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon May 18, 2009 4:38 am)

In Pressac's big book, there is a cross section of Kremas 2 and 3. While the aeration system is shown in detail. there is no indication of a sewage system. The floors of Krema 2 and 3 were at least 5 feet below ground water level. Pressac describes the difficulties the Germans had to protect these buildings against ground water penetration. The standard construction was three layers of bituminous felt, glued to the outer surface of the building with several layers of hot bitumen, but bitumen, a petroleum product, was extremely scarce in Germany, and quite some bureaucratic paperwork was necessary to get the necessary quantity of bitumen.
From an underground room below ground water level, sewage water must be evacuated by a pump which ist situated in a pit below floor level, and the floor itself must have a 2% inclination toward that pit. As far as I know, there are no traces whatsoever of a pump pit or of floor inclination. Without a pump and without floor inclation, people woul have been obliged, after hosing down the walls and the floor, to get the water out with pails and mops - a rather silly idea.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon May 18, 2009 5:07 am)

muller wrote:In Pressac's big book, there is a cross section of Kremas 2 and 3. While the aeration system is shown in detail. there is no indication of a sewage system. The floors of Krema 2 and 3 were at least 5 feet below ground water level. Pressac describes the difficulties the Germans had to protect these buildings against ground water penetration. The standard construction was three layers of bituminous felt, glued to the outer surface of the building with several layers of hot bitumen, but bitumen, a petroleum product, was extremely scarce in Germany, and quite some bureaucratic paperwork was necessary to get the necessary quantity of bitumen.
From an underground room below ground water level, sewage water must be evacuated by a pump which ist situated in a pit below floor level, and the floor itself must have a 2% inclination toward that pit. As far as I know, there are no traces whatsoever of a pump pit or of floor inclination. Without a pump and without floor inclation, people woul have been obliged, after hosing down the walls and the floor, to get the water out with pails and mops - a rather silly idea.



Without a pump and without floor inclation, people woul have been obliged, after hosing down the walls and the floor, to get the water out with pails and mops - a rather silly idea.


Indeed.
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Postby Zulu » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon May 18, 2009 9:44 am)

Germania wrote:the drainage system of the gas chamber is shown on blueprint 1300 of july 1942:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 297.01.jpe

Pressac considers the separation of its drainage systems from the rest of the basement the first 'criminal trace' by the way...


Sure, Pressac notes "The complete separation of the drainage system of Leichenkeller 1 from that of the rest of the building (as fore shadowed on drawing 932), is the first trace of the criminal conversion of Leichenkeller 1 into a gas chamber."

http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0296.htm

It is a strange allegation because the drawing shown nº 1300 doesn't show NOTHING of that "modification". Pressac OMITS to show the nº932 which should support his affirmation. Why so?

Furthermore, as the main collector (for all drainage inlets at all rooms of Krema II) is located AFTER, so at the SW of Leichenkeller 1 (alleged gas chamber), such "separation" should have led to the construction of another different main collector towards the sewage plant only for Leichenkeller 1 (far more expensive). Then, a drawing should have shown the construction of TWO SEPARATE CONDUCTS towards the sewage station coming from Krema II. Pressac doesn't show NOTHING of the sort supporting his allegation except alleged "hand written adds" not shown and, at least, of dubious origin.

At Auschwitz, by considering the methods of the Zentral Bauleitung, it was IMPOSSIBLE to construct 2 separate main conducts including one only connecting the drainage of Leichenkeller 1 to the main sewer towards sewage station without drawings and related documents requesting more money as well as orders of service.

Actually, the only drawing shown by Pressac is the nº 1300, Drawn on 18/6/42 by Prisoner 17133, which descibes the complete drainage system of Krema II including the main conduct connected with the morgue 1.

http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0296.htm
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Page%20Scans/Page297.htm

Amazingly, Pressac admitted that the "modification" alleged by him on the same page didn't take place...

"On the site, however, the concrete cover of manhole I can still be seen in place, and is to the southwest of Leichenkeller 1. The modification hand-written on the drawing was therefore not implemented, though this makes little difference in the end for there were only two places the main sewer could run to: the Königsgraben (to the west), or the “Kläranlage I/ Water purification plant I” (to the south), which again finally led to the Königsgraben."

http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0296.htm

Something really incomprehensible.

Moreover, the drawing of that drainage is dated on June 6, 1942 while a document of 29th January 1943 proves that Bischoff wanted to use the morgues of Krema II to store corpses.

That is the document used by exterminationists to "prove" the existence of a gas chamber named "Vergasungkeller" at Krema II. That is a nonsense because if it were a "gas chamber" at the place of morgue 1 and, as consequence, an "undressing room" at morgue 2, that Bischoff 's letter shouldn't even exist. He wrote it to explain that the ovens are yet operational and he has no place to store corpses before their cremation because the morgues are not finished. That implies that when the morgues are achieved they will play their function of morgues whatever and wherever that "vergasungkeller" was.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkere ... ller.shtml

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Postby muller » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue May 19, 2009 6:02 am)

The cross section of the morgues of crematoria II and III is shown in Rudolfs second report too (vho.org.GB/Books/trr/5 html#5.4.1); fig 26. Apart from not showing anything like a drainage or floor inclination, the thickness of the floor slab -about 2 ft- is remarkable. That mass of concrete was needed because the building was clad with 3 layers of watertight bitumen felt and was immersed in the ground water which caused buoyancy.
Our whole discussion would be superfluous if a reliable witness, preferably a civil engineer, is allowed to climb down into the morgues of Krema II and III and to look at the floor, if there are sinks, sewage pipes, floor inclination, a pump pit etc.


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