How do you respond to this claim?

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Lamprecht
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How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Lamprecht » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Jun 19, 2009 2:05 pm)

How do you respond to the claim that a genocide happened because the Nazis put Jews in camps, they knew some would die - and they no doubt did.


The fact that they imprisoned them makes it their responsibility to keep them alive and well fed.

ie:
"Putting jews in camps and not feeding them etc means that you are deliberately and systematically killing them, so it is genocide"
"There is a principal which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principal is contempt prior to investigation."
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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby PatrickSMcNally » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Jun 19, 2009 5:09 pm)

Lamprecht wrote:the Nazis put Jews in camps, they knew some would die - and they no doubt did.

That constitutes a human rights violation, without any doubt, in my opinion. But calling it "genocide" is quite a major retreat, if such is really being done by someone whom you've exchanged opinions with. This is my attitude on such a point. If someone I know has a regular habit of charging the US government with having committed "genocide" in Vietnam and some other places, well then I can respect that and I'll readily make the allowance that by such standards there was indeed a "Nazi genocide." It just irks me the way that scoundrels at the Anti-Defamation League and related spots will issue the claim that "the Holocaust was a unique crime in human history" and then confronted with revisionist arguments will retreat back onto something like what you've suggested. I can have some respect for someone like Jean-Paul Sartre who charged in his Vietnam-era book "On Genocide" that the US was killing Vietnamese because they were Vietnamese just like the Germans killed the Jews because they were Jews. But if someone is going to play the "unique nazi barbarity" tune then this is the place to call them out on it.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Mojo » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:05 pm)

Did they not feed, clothe and attempt to rid the prisoners of disease until towards the end of the war, when the Allies bombed everything that moved making it impossible to get supplies to any camp? Didn't the IRC document that the Germans allowed them to bring food parcels into the camps for the prisoners too?

Weren't 100,000's or possibly more than a million German troops reclassified as Disarmed Enemy Forces (by Eisenhower to get around that pesky Geneva Convention treatment of POW's), rounded up into fenced areas without shelter, water or food & left to die in the elements?

Seems to me that someone made a point of eliminating any uprising of "eyewitnesses" for the Germans.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Thesaint » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:59 pm)

"The fact that they imprisoned them makes it their responsibility to keep them alive and well fed."

Precisely.The fact that they did keep them alive,and fed them as well as could be expected under blockade,the carpet-bombing,and the difficulties of fighting a multi-front war,proves that the intent of the Germans was not to kill the Jews,and any deaths in the camps must be looked at as merely the inevitable tragedies of a war in which scores of millions died.
I would ask the questioner in return how were the Germans treated after the last shots were fired,and "peace" reigned?
Quite a striking contrast I would say.
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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby KostasL » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:22 am)

Lamprecht wrote:How do you respond to the claim that a genocide happened because the Nazis put Jews in camps, they knew some would die - and they no doubt did.

The fact that they imprisoned them makes it their responsibility to keep them alive and well fed.


It is a fact that during the last months of the war almost nobody in Germany was safe and well fed. :(
Does anybody deny this fact ? :oops:

And let me tell you this : during the first winter (1941-42) of axis occupation in my country, Greece, tens of thousands of my fellow Greeks, died of famine :( , partly because of english naval blockade :oops: .
The same time, people in the concentration camps were fed enough. So, you see, sometimes it was safer, during this war, to be in a concentration camp. :wink:
When you realize that the Holocaust is a LIE, then all of a sudden, ALL your questions, ALL bizarre and strange things, disappear, and ALL things make sense, at last.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:27 am)

Image

Although photos like the one above are used endlessly to brainwash the public into believing in Nazi gassings, it has long been conceded that no one was gassed at Bergen-Belsen. There simply are no photographs anywhere that are seriously presented as photos of gassing victims. The US Holocaust Museum has more than 6.000 photos available on-line, but not one picture of a supposed victim of gassing with diesel exhaust or Zyklon-B, or any other gas--not even one.

America's handiwork: Victims of disease–generally typhus-–at Belsen, a direct result of the Anglo-American bombing and strafing of axis civilians and civilian targets. The Germans are still falsely blamed. General Dwight D. EISENHOWER had even forced thousands of German civilians to walk past the dead as if they were somehow responsible. He should have looked at himself in the mirror, instead. Belsen was his handiwork. Such horrors were also the handiwork of all of America's and Britain's leaders, from the highest to the lowest. Just what did they expect to find after years of bombing and strafing every conceivable target from entire cities to lone farmers in their fields? The real horrors of the so-called holocaust, in pictures that everyone should look at, were America's own doing. Don't be shy, don't deny--take pride in your achievement America! You did it! But, instead of embracing their own achievements, they actually believe they were the “good guys.” They continue to blame the Germans, especially those “fiendish” Nazis, for what they themselves had caused. They themselves were the true fiends and criminals. But they won the war. And EISENHOWER, instead of being hung as the depraved and cowardly war criminal that he truly was, actually rose to become president of Columbia University and later the United States–an American “hero” and an inspiration for future generations!

The best discussion of what really happened at Bergen-Belsen was given by Dr. Russell W. BARTON and Ernst Zuendel after Zuendel's 1988 trial in Toronto. Dr. BARTON had testified there on Zuendel's behalf. BARTON had as a young British medical officer been assigned to Belsen just a few days after the British took over at the camp. Barton's explanations of what really happened and what he actually witnessed had shocked British audiences years earlier when he first published an article about his experiences. The discussion appears on YouTube in three parts as follows: Part 1, Part 2 and Part 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eUNLivuBt8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qb89BFi ... re=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH3jWcVx ... re=channel

Dr. Charles P. Larson, an American pathologist, was just one of the doctors specifically assigned to search for forensic evidence of deaths from poison or gas— and they all found nothing! Assigned by the US Army's War Crimes Branch to find forensic evidence of Nazi atrocities, Larson had to admit that he found absolutely no evidence of gassings. Although Larson believed there had been exterminations with cyanide gas and that “only a relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner” (page 61), he also admitted that when he had sent the organs from “30 or 40 bodies” to a laboratory in Paris for analysis, the “reports came back negative.” He was part of War Crimes Team 6823 which gathered evidence for the subsequent war crimes trials.

Image

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Germania » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Jun 21, 2009 1:32 am)

the concept of exterminating the Jews in the camps ("Vernichtung durch Arbeit") appears in this document by the german minister of justice Thierack:

With regard to the destruction of asocial life, Dr Goebbels is of the opinion that the following groups should be exterminated: Jews and gypsies unconditionally, Poles who have to serve 3-4 -years of penal servitude, and Czechs and Germans who are sentenced to death or penal servitude for life or to security custody for life. The idea of exterminating them by labor is the best.


http://www.ess.uwe.ac.uk/genocide/annihil3.htm

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Heydrich » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:16 am)

@ "Germanina"

Provide the actual German wartime document, who states that Goebbels and Thierack are discussing that "Vernichtung durch Arbeit" was the way to go, not some US-internet translation or Nuremberg fake.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:38 pm)

Germania claims:
... the concept of exterminating the Jews in the camps ("Vernichtung durch Arbeit") appears in this document by the german minister of justice Thierack ...

What document, Germania?

As for Thierack ... well, just another who conveniently 'committed suicide' before his trial.

This is too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Hektor » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:27 pm)

Heydrich wrote:...
Provide the actual German wartime document, who states that Goebbels and Thierack are discussing that "Vernichtung durch Arbeit" was the way to go, not some US-internet translation or Nuremberg fake.

Yes, the actual document please.

The "Extermination through Labor" card is all to often played in a shell game, when they fail to provide proof for extermination by gas.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Haldan » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Nov 19, 2012 2:47 pm)

Hektor wrote:
The "Extermination through Labor" card is all to often played in a shell game, when they fail to provide proof for extermination by gas.


Hektor,

That's really one of the best perks of being a Holocaust Believer. You always have something to fallback on, i.e you're disproved on the 'gassing' claims so you conveniently fallback on the Wild Western theme of the Eastern Front, then on something else such as this 'Extermination through Labour' bullcock. Seems like a lame spoof, like a parody of Kraft durch Freude. Can you imagine the "Beauty of Labor" office coming up with a phrase like 'Extermination through Labor'? Or even Goebbels? :lol:

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Hektor » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:14 pm)

Haldan wrote:That's really one of the best perks of being a Holocaust Believer. You always have something to fallback on, i.e you're disproved on the 'gassing' claims so you conveniently fallback on the Wild Western theme of the Eastern Front, then on something else such as this 'Extermination through Labour' bullcock. Seems like a lame spoof, like a parody of Kraft durch Freude. Can you imagine the "Beauty of Labor" office coming up with a phrase like 'Extermination through Labor'? Or even Goebbels? :lol:

It's a shell game. Disprove something and then they'll just say that there are so many others. Even better, the vast number of Holocaust survivors is sometimes used as proof. The logic being, why are there Holocaust survivors, if there hasn't been a Holocaust.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Creox » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:31 pm)

As far as the OP is concerned I would agree that it the responsibility of the Germans to clothe and feed their prisoners, which appears to have been done. There is no evidence I can find that proves the prisoners were purposely malnourished. It is no secret that the Jews were not wanted in Germany and there is no secret they were moved and used as forced labor. Beyond that...

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby Hektor » 7 years 7 months ago (Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:43 pm)

Creox wrote:As far as the OP is concerned I would agree that it the responsibility of the Germans to clothe and feed their prisoners, which appears to have been done. There is no evidence I can find that proves the prisoners were purposely malnourished. It is no secret that the Jews were not wanted in Germany and there is no secret they were moved and used as forced labor. Beyond that...

Beyond that I can not see much more either. Wait, Jews weren't that popular with many other Europeans either, especially in the East. And yes, the German dealt rigorously with Partisans.

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Re: How do you respond to this claim?

Postby ganglere » 7 years 7 months ago (Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:59 am)

Good morning ladies and gentlemen!

The general idea, as regards to responsibility for death in camps, is that if prisoners in the camps died, that responsibility falls on those who hold them captive, right?

The basis for this idea, requires a total disregard for the factual circumstances of the causes of said deaths, i.e. the breakdown of communication, terror bombings, and so on.

To put it simply, “no matter what, the Germans are to blame”.

Well now, if we apply the same standards of reasoning, and I take this from the top of my head, if any of these claims I make is erroneous, please let me know.

The Belsen camp was taken over by the British on the 15 of April 1945, and realizing that there was a typhus epidemic raging, the British decided to keep the prisoners in the camp, so to not let the prisoners spread the disease outside the camp. That should mean, that the British held them captive.

Under British rule, there died some 13.000 prisoners. Now, under the rules of total responsibility, that means that these deaths are the responsibility of the British.

Perhaps it is time to start searching for elderly British officers, and charge them with “the genocide at Belsen”, or, are we perhaps applying double standards here?

Humbly yours,

Ganglere


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