Vergassungskeller question

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
jheitwler
Member
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:46 pm

Vergassungskeller question

Postby jheitwler » 1 decade 3 months ago (Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:09 am)

We all know about the Bischoff (sp?) memo and the infamous ambiguous "vergassungskeller" Does this word appear anywhere else? Can it's meaning be interpreted as refering to a gas chamber if one were so inclined?
"First of all there is the fact that if we assume the Holocaust to have happened more or less as told, all the evidence becomes intelligible, while if we assume it was a hoax, most of the evidence does not make any sense." - Robert Jan Van Pelt

User avatar
Älghuvud
Member
Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Mar 28, 2009 8:58 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Älghuvud » 1 decade 3 months ago (Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:38 pm)

jheitwler wrote:We all know about the Bischoff (sp?) memo and the infamous ambiguous "vergassungskeller" Does this word appear anywhere else? Can it's meaning be interpreted as refering to a gas chamber if one were so inclined?


Obviously this is all due to a faulty translation into English. Apparently, the term "ausgeschalt" (stripped, referring to formwork) was confused with "ausgeschaltet" (eliminated, referring to the assumed homicide). So, whatever the actual meaning of "Vergasungskeller" might have been - there is no evidence that it was intended to kill people.
"They can't prove I wrote it." said the Knave, "There's no name at the end."
"That only makes the matter worse." said the King, "You must have meant some mischief, or else you'd have signed like an honest man."

Wahrheit
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:42 pm

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 3 months ago (Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:05 pm)

jheitwler wrote:We all know about the Bischoff (sp?) memo and the infamous ambiguous "vergassungskeller" Does this word appear anywhere else? Can it's meaning be interpreted as refering to a gas chamber if one were so inclined?


AFAIK Jheitwler, such is the only known usage of the full word "vergasungskeller".

Of course, "vergasung" (the sinister part of the word) has been used on other occasions, with meanings recognized to be non-homicidal (i.e., fumigation). A good summary is available in this section from Crowell's "Bomb Shelters in Birkenau" piece:

3.7 Vergasungskeller

As we have seen, this word has usually been interpreted as meaning "gas chamber" or "gassing cellar" by traditional historians. Arthur R. Butz has offered a number of explanations over the years to account for this word, of which "gas shelter" is the most recent. The word is unusual and is not found in any other documents. Hence, there is no real way of knowing what it means. In Technique, we tried to construct etymologically a definition of the term that would be consonant with gas protection, or more precisely the treatment of persons injured in a gas attack. However, we are not satisfied with that construction because we have found no trace of such usage in the civil defense literature. We have maintained since late 1997 that the more likely meaning of the word has something to do with disinfection, and will discuss our reasoning below. In the meantime, we have to recognize that this criminal trace, along with the gas detectors for cyanide residue, remain as rather forceful evidence in support of the gas chamber thesis.

So far we have found five examples of "Vergasungs-" type words that are roughly contemporaneous to the above usage and are focused on Auschwitz and the SS.

First, Mattogno found a reference, dated July 13, 1941, in which the delousing spaces of BW 5a and 5b are referred to as a "Vergasungsraum".

Second, a travel order to pick up Zyklon B from a factory in Dessau, dated July 26, 1942, references "Gas zur Vergasung des Lagers, zur Bekämpfung der aufgetretenen Seuche, zu holen." That is, picking up the gas for the fumigation of the camp in the struggle against vermin. Since the order comes at the height of the typhus and typhoid epidemics the meaning is clearly not homicidal.

Third, a widely distributed circular from Commandant Höß, dated August 12, 1942, discusses an accident with Zyklon B during the fumigation of a barracks. (Pressac, ATO, p. 201, Ref: PMO, no reference) The one page special order contains two references to "vergasen" words, in one place referring to all those who took part in the gassing "allen an Vergasungen Beteiligten" and refers to the spaces gassed as "vergasten Räume". A similar order, from Doctor Wirths, dated December 10, 1943, describes a similar incident, but here the words used are "Entwesung" and "entwest", which supports the argument that "vergasen" was used as a synonym not only for "begasen" (fumigate) but also "entwesen" (disinfect). (Source: 502-1-8, p. 25)

Fourth, the diary of Dr. Kremer, for September 1, 1942, contains the following entry: "Nachmittags bei der Vergasung eines Blocks mit Zyklon B gegen die Läuse." That is, "In the afternoon attended the fumigation of a barracks with Zyklon B against lice."

Fifth, a circular from Dr. Mrugowsky from the SS Hygiene Institute, dated May 13, 1943, reads as follows:

"In the future therefore, cyanide gas can only be used for the fumigation of barracks in the concentration camps."

[In Zukunft darf daher Blausäure nur noch zur Vergasung von Baracken in Konzentrationlägern verwendet werden.]

It is obvious that the ordinary meaning of "Vergasung-" type words at Auschwitz, among the SS, and during this time frame, is as a synonym for fumigation or disinfection. Therefore the most likely explanation for the word "Vergasungskeller" is a basement in which fumigation or disinfection is going to take place.
https://codoh.com/library/document/904/?lang=en


I have bolded all of the references to "Vergasung" for easier locating.

BTW, you got mail. :wink:

User avatar
widmann
Member
Member
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:22 pm

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby widmann » 1 decade 3 months ago (Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:02 pm)

jheitwler wrote:We all know about the Bischoff (sp?) memo and the infamous ambiguous "vergassungskeller" Does this word appear anywhere else? Can it's meaning be interpreted as refering to a gas chamber if one were so inclined?


Arthur Butz addressed this question here:
https://codoh.com/library/document/956/?lang=en
and here:
https://codoh.com/library/document/2687/?lang=en

User avatar
Hektor
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 3336
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2006 7:59 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Jul 16, 2009 2:58 am)

Exactly which room should have been the "Vergasungskeller"? The text in question:

"Das Krematorium II wurde unter Einsatz aller verfügbaren Kräfte trotz unsagbarer Schwierigkeiten und Frostwetter bei Tag- und Nachbetrieb [sic] bis auf bauliche Kleinigkeiten fertiggestellt. Die Öfen wurden im Beisein des Herrn Oberingenieur Prüfer der ausführenden Firma, Firma Topf u. Söhne, Erfurt, angefeuert und funtionieren [sic] tadellos. Die Eisenbetondecke des Leichenkellers konnte infolge Frosteinwirkung noch nicht ausgeschalt werden. Die [sic] ist jedoch unbedeutend, da der Vergasungskeller hierfür benützt werden kann. "
(holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/19430129-vergasungskeller/)

From the text it is not clear which room it is. But it indicates that it can not be the Leichenkeller of Krema II, whose "Eisenbetondecke" wasn't ready. It is the "Leichenkeller" Holocaustians claim was the homicidal gas chamber. Looks like this beloved document is actually contradicting their narrative.

jheitwler
Member
Member
Posts: 97
Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:46 pm

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby jheitwler » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Jul 17, 2009 3:54 pm)

I think the last question in my original post is kind of lame and should have been left out. Of course vergassungskeller CAN be interpreted to mean homicidal gas chamber if one is so inclined because it IS interpreted that way. The point I want to be able to make is that something is terribly amiss here. In Van Pelt's "The Case for Auschwitz," our dear professor spends about fifty pages explaining why this ambiguous word qualifies as proof of the gas chambers. The point I want to be able to make is that one ambiguous word that appears once in one document--out of thousands upon thousands of captured war time German documents--should not be a lynchpin in proving 'the most thoroughly documented genocide in history.'

Of course, to make this statement I need to be certain that 'vergassungskeller' does indeed appear only once in one single document.
"First of all there is the fact that if we assume the Holocaust to have happened more or less as told, all the evidence becomes intelligible, while if we assume it was a hoax, most of the evidence does not make any sense." - Robert Jan Van Pelt

Lohengrin
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 148
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 7:34 pm

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Lohengrin » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:51 pm)

In my opinion the use of the word “Vergasungskeller” is perfectly logical in the context of crematoria. It has nothing to do with ‘criminal’ activities or homicide gassings.

German cremation technicians call the lower part of the oven, which generates hot air for incineration ‘Generator’. In a letter from Topf und Söhne to the Neubauleitung in KL Mauthausen (Letter from Topf to SS-Neubauleitung KL Mauthausen of 6 January 1941. BK, NS4 Ma/54 January 6, 1941, as cited by Mattogno in ‘Cremation Ovens Auschwitz’), these technicians called the produced hot air ‘Generatorgase’.
To generate ‘gas’ in a ‘generator’ is simply part of the incineration process.

Because the gas-generating process takes place in the lowest part of the oven-building, at a lower level, it is necessarily situated in a souterrain, a sub-level or even a separate floor; in any case: below the floor level of the cremation room.

One can see this for example in the Buchenwald Krema. The generator-part there is located behind the two three-muffle ovens, on a lower level with a separate entrance.

I’m not sure if Krema’s II and III also had a lower-level gas-generation ‘Keller’ behind the 5 big three-muffle ovens. It almost must have been so: heat-generation, coke input, maintenance, etc. necessarily had to take place on a lower level than the cremation room. It also separates operational activities from the cremation site. All this justifies the supposition that there was a room or souterrain (‘Vergasungskeller) below or partly below the cremation room, as is the case at Buchenwald.

If so, it’s logical and completely normal to call this Generatorgase sub-level: “Vergasungskeller”.

Is this the end of the “Vergasungskeller” myth, or is there someone who can explain this isn’t true?

User avatar
Zulu
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Zulu » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:49 pm)

jheitwler wrote:We all know about the Bischoff (sp?) memo and the infamous ambiguous "vergassungskeller" Does this word appear anywhere else? Can it's meaning be interpreted as refering to a gas chamber if one were so inclined?


I am surprised to constate that Revisionists generally didn't address properly that apparent "Vergasungkeller" gambit exposed on the BIschoff's letter. All the argumentation I know is mostly centered on the meaning of the word "Vergasungkeller" while the purpose and the actual meaning of the document is discarded.
In fact, whatever and wherever was such room, it is clear that it COULDN'T BE at the place of Leichenkeller 1 - called abusively "gas chamber" by Exterminationists - one of the 2 morgues drawn on the Krema II blueprints. In fact, that document constitutes a real proof of the actual existence and the actual construction of MORGUES at Krema II and III (mirrored constructions) just as they are drawn on their respective blueprints.
Why?
Because if it that "Vergasungkeller" were THE "gas chamber" abusively located at the place of the morgue 1 at Krema II by the Exterminationists, Bischoff should have had no reason to be worried about the lack of room to store corpses and, then, his letter would have been a nonsense.
If it were a "gas chamber" at the place of 1 morgue, then it couldn't have had ANY MORGUE at Krema II and no room to store corpses at all.
With a "gas chamber" at that place, thus an "undressing room", thus NO MORGUES left at Krema II, where was Bishoff supposed to store corpses at an achieved Krema II?
It is enough clear that "Vergasungkeller" IS NOT the right place to store corpses. It is clear that it will be used to do so ONLY TEMPORARILY.
Try to figure out how will actually work Krema II when the TEMPORARY ROLE of that room is FINISHED.
Where will Bischoff STORE NORMALLY the CORPSES before their cremation?
Well, there is only ONE ANSWER, at the rooms specifically planed and built to carry out that function: the MORGUES drawn and labeled Leichenkeller 1 and 2 on all drawings available.

http://www.holocaust-history.org/~dkere ... ller.shtml

That what is called "Reductio ad absurdum" [apagogical argument]
In LOGIC, it is perfectly allowed to invalid an hypothesis by mean of "Reductio ad absurdum" [apagogical argument].
Say we wish to disprove proposition P. The procedure is to show that assuming P leads to a logical contradiction.
Thus, according to the law of non-contradiction, P must be false.
In the words of G. H. Hardy (A Mathematician's Apology), "Reductio ad absurdum, which Euclid loved so much, is one of a mathematician's finest weapons. It is a far finer gambit than any chess gambit: a chess player may offer the sacrifice of a pawn or even a piece, but a mathematician offers the game."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum

Applying "Reductio ad absurdum" to that Bischoff's letter:

P: there is 1 "gas chamber" at Krema II, let be it at Leichenkeller 1.
By assuming P, if Leichenkeller 1 is THE "gas chamber" at Krema II, then Leichenkeller 2 is THE "undressing room" according with the gassing tales.
As consequence, there is no place left for the 2 large morgues (Leichenkeller 1 & 2) planed to store corpses as showed on blueprints.
Thus, The Bischoff's letter is absurd. The issue is to store corpses before their cremation and the right places to do so at Krema II are Leichenkeller 1 & 2. While they are not achieved another room will be used TEMPORARY. However, is is evident that Leichenkeller 1 & 2 are built to store corpses IN NORMAL TIME.
If P is true, then the morgues don't exist anymore and there is NO REASON TO STORE CORPSES at Krema II..
So, P is absurd.

Conclusion

That letter proves clearly that the 2 morgues L1 and 2, as planed and drawn on blueprints, are in construction at Krema II. That fact is clearly expressed by Bischoff whose aim is to store corpses at Krema II. However, because those rooms are not completely achieved - although the ovens are operational - a room named "Vergasungkeller" (wherever and whatever it would be) should substitute them temporary until their final completion. When the situation becomes NORMAL, 2 morgues will fulfill their NORMAL FUNCTION and the corpses will be stored at the right place. End of the temporary role of that "Vergasungkeller".

A- Bishoff mentions namely a Leichenkeller (nr 2) on that letter.[*]
L2 is delayed because of the non achievement of the ceiling:
"Because of the frost, it has not yet been possible to remove the formwork from the ceiling of the corpse cellar (Leichenkeller)."

B- Implicitly Leichenkeller 1 is also mentioned through the delay of its ventilation system:
"Because the wagons are blocked, Messrs Topf & Sons have not been able to deliver on time the ventilation and air extraction installations as requested by the Bauleitung". If that room were operational with its ventilation correctly installed, Bischoff would have had some room to store corpses. That was not the case. Neither L1 not L2 were in condition to play their role of morgues according with that letter.

C- By establishing clearly that usually the ovens cremated corpses previously stored at morgues at the Krematorien, Bischoff denies any criminal intention on their construction. The morgues were an essential part of the Cremation installations at Auschwitz. On that letter Bischoff assume that, in normal condition, the corpses are stored at the morgues previously to their cremation.
There are several reasons which explain such procedure:
a- the morgues were a gathering point of cadavers to all deaths occurred at the camp. That is a basic prophylactic measure.
b- it was the place where the cadavers were undressed, the documents recuperated, the golden teeth or jewels recycled, etc..
c- they had a function of buffer to regulate the ovens' activity.
d- eventual autopsies were practiced in order to study the epidemic occurrences.

[*] The label number of both Leichenkeller are not explicitly given on that Bischoff's letter. However, Pressac gives some photos on his book that show that Leichenkeller 1 was achieved before Leichenkeller 2 during the construction of Krema II.

That letter is typical of Pressac's methodology. The pharmacist was tracking all documents mentioning "gas" on them. With that BIschoff's letter, I imagine that he must have pulled on his sit screaming Bingo!. Blinded by his obsession, he forgot all sane logic to offer an exclusive biased interpretation. If he were more serious, he would have researched the documents concerning the construction of the morgues established before or following that letter. For instance, the final "end of works" by Huta with the details concerning the building and corresponding blueprints. Eventually, he could have found where was actually located the room called "Vergasungkeller" by Bischoff and which was its role.
Other technical documents could be useful, for instance the ones which show how the morgues' capacity was established, which parameters were used.
Why did SS choose an underground location? How did they calculate the total surface? How did they design the ventilation system, its configuration, its power etc..?
A lot of very important technical documents which are dramatically absent of the Pressac's' study.

However, under many aspects, the Pressac work is very interesting, especially because he exposes a lot of genuine documents and blueprints very useful to understand the "gas chambers" topic. Based on it, I studied the ventilation system of the alleged "gas chamber" (Leichenkeller 1) at Krema II and III. Although the blueprints are not complete on that book to define totally such system (the passive fresh air entrance circuit is not given in detail to all the underground rooms), ones can assume that it was absurd for a "gas chamber". It was actually WRONG. Pressac himself assumed that point by writing that the ventilation system was "good for a morgue" but "bad for a gas chamber".

<< Drawing 1173 shows the cross section of Leichenkeller 1 (the future gas chamber) where it joins the ground floor of the building, and shows in detail the paths of the ventilation and air extraction ducts. The transformation of this room into a homicidal gas chamber did not bring about any modification in the ventilation system, which had been designed for an underground morgue. The idea was that fresh air coming in [Belüftung] near the ceiling would cool and descend to the lower layers and be taken out near floor level through the air extraction ducts [Entlüftung]. If the system had been designed in the first place for a gas chamber using hydrocyanic acid, it would have been reversed with respect to that drawn, with the fresh air coming in below and the warm, toxic air being extracted from above. This cross-section, contrary to what historians have hitherto claimed, cannot be used to prove the existence of a homicidal gas chamber in Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorium II.>>
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0274.shtml
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0274.htm

He didn't go further to study the consequences of such fact and he assumed that, despite the "bad ventilation" the rooms worked like that as "gas chambers". He didn't appreciate very well the consequences. In fact, during the alleged "gassing operations" the piles of resulting cadavers (2000 or 3000 people, density 9.5 to 14.2 per sq. meter on the gassing tales) would have sealed the exhaustion ducts' openings located near the floor!
Such fact would have made the ventilation of the room IMPOSSIBLE. No way to expel the lethal gas out of the room!
I made some drawings to explain better that amazing situation.

1. Section of Leichenkeller as drawn by the civilian firm Huta with colored indications for "air extraction" and "air entrance".
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu34 ... ection.jpg

2. Schematic representation of the ventilation system designed for the morgue 1 by SS. It seems that nobody has tried to represent how actually was the air circulation at that room.
It is important to note that the ventilation of the morgue was designed to maintain permanently the room under a negative pressure. The fresh air came passively into the room because of the low pressure provoked by the extraction system. By that mean, it is possible to avoid the propagation of disease vectors and bad odors outside the room.
That explain also why a gas tight door was eventually required to close the room in order to help for maintaining the negative pressure.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu34 ... eller1.jpg

3. A lateral section of the room that Pressac never tried to show on his book. It is important to figure out the numerous openings which existed and their location in the room. To be noticed that during the supposed "gassing operations" the numerous permanent openings located near the ceiling allowed the HCN gas to go outside the room.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu34 ... alview.jpg

4. Ventilation of Leichenkeller 1" supposedly working as a "gas chamber". The big BUG.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu34 ... er_1gc.jpg

NOt to mention that all ventilation's openings, that means at least 100 were NEVER sealed to perform the alleged "gassing operations" (eye witnesses and "confessed nazis" forgot it). That is in complete contradiction with the rigorous procedures established to perform usual fumigations. See doc NI-9912.

DIRECTIVES FOR THE USE OF PRUSSIC ACID (ZYCLON FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF VERMIN (DISINFESTATION)
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0018.htm
http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0019.htm

For reasons of simplification of construction it is possible, but I am not sure about that point, that all the underground rooms had a common circuit of fresh air entrance with a unique chimney located on the Krema's roof.
In that case the configuration of the respective chimneys of ventilation would be according with the schemes:
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu34 ... ressac.jpg
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu34 ... ressac.jpg

I am looking for more drawings which could define more precisely how was the air entrance conducts frame of all the underground rooms. If the air entrance circuits weren't separated - then each room had a connection to a common trunk - that would mean that at each gassing operation the lethal HCN coming from L1 was able to kill all the people working in the Krema including SS.

Any help is welcome.
PS: As you see, English is not my native language. So, I would be pleased if someone could "translate" that post into a correct prose. TIA

Germania
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:48 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Germania » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:18 am)

hello Zulu,there are a few mistakes in your posting.

First, the "Vergasungskeller" was Leichenkeller 1 of crematorium 2 and the "Leichenkeller" was Leichenkeller 2. this was already shown by Pressac: http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0503.shtml

Second, there is no evidence Leitchenkeller 2 was an undressing room on 29 January 1943.the earliest evidence for the basement being planned for undressing is from early March 1943 and the central construction office did build a horse stable barrack for undressing prior this date.

it is clear from the document that on 29 january Leichenkeller 2 was planned as morgue for storing corpses, wheras Leichenkeller 1 was planned as gas-chamber. however, Leichenkeller 2 not being completed, Bischoff claimed towards Kammler the Vergasungskeller can be used as morgue temporarely. it was possible to misuse the gas-chamber for this purpose because its ventilation nessecary for gassings wasn't completed anyway.

Germania
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:48 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Germania » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Jul 19, 2009 4:25 am)

jheitwler wrote:Of course, to make this statement I need to be certain that 'vergassungskeller' does indeed appear only once in one single document.


One room in crematorium 4 is called "Gasskammer" and there are numerous documents for gas-tight doors and windows installed in the crematora.

User avatar
Zulu
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Zulu » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Jul 19, 2009 9:28 am)

Germania wrote:hello Zulu,there are a few mistakes in your posting.

First, the "Vergasungskeller" was Leichenkeller 1 of crematorium 2 and the "Leichenkeller" was Leichenkeller 2. this was already shown by Pressac: http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... 0503.shtml

Second, there is no evidence Leitchenkeller 2 was an undressing room on 29 January 1943.the earliest evidence for the basement being planned for undressing is from early March 1943 and the central construction office did build a horse stable barrack for undressing prior this date.

it is clear from the document that on 29 january Leichenkeller 2 was planned as morgue for storing corpses, wheras Leichenkeller 1 was planned as gas-chamber. however, Leichenkeller 2 not being completed, Bischoff claimed towards Kammler the Vergasungskeller can be used as morgue temporarely. it was possible to misuse the gas-chamber for this purpose because its ventilation nessecary for gassings wasn't completed anyway.


I am afraid you didn't understand very well what I wrote.

Germania
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 141
Joined: Fri May 02, 2003 4:48 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Germania » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Jul 19, 2009 10:19 am)

i did understand you very well:

With a "gas chamber" at that place, thus an "undressing room", thus NO MORGUES left at Krema II, where was Bishoff supposed to store corpses at an achieved Krema II?


you wrongly assume Leichenkeller 2 was planned as undressing room on 29 January 1943, whereas the earliest evidence for this is from March 1943. with a wrong assumption, you draw wrong conclusion.

User avatar
Zulu
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon May 11, 2009 9:44 am

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Zulu » 1 decade 2 months ago (Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:08 am)

There is no alternative, Leichenkeller 1&2 are morgues or not.

1- Leidchenkeller is a "gas chamber" THEN L2 is an "undressing room".

2- Leichenkller 1 and 2 are morgues because Bischoff wants to store corpses there.

3- where will Bischoff store corpses once Leichenkeller are finally achieved?

Reinhard
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 2 months ago (Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:32 pm)

Lohengrin wrote:In my opinion the use of the word “Vergasungskeller” is perfectly logical in the context of crematoria. It has nothing to do with ‘criminal’ activities or homicide gassings.

German cremation technicians call the lower part of the oven, which generates hot air for incineration ‘Generator’. In a letter from Topf und Söhne to the Neubauleitung in KL Mauthausen (Letter from Topf to SS-Neubauleitung KL Mauthausen of 6 January 1941. BK, NS4 Ma/54 January 6, 1941, as cited by Mattogno in ‘Cremation Ovens Auschwitz’), these technicians called the produced hot air ‘Generatorgase’.
To generate ‘gas’ in a ‘generator’ is simply part of the incineration process.

Because the gas-generating process takes place in the lowest part of the oven-building, at a lower level, it is necessarily situated in a souterrain, a sub-level or even a separate floor; in any case: below the floor level of the cremation room.

One can see this for example in the Buchenwald Krema. The generator-part there is located behind the two three-muffle ovens, on a lower level with a separate entrance.


I agree, that's exactly what I've been saying for years.

Lohengrin wrote:I’m not sure if Krema’s II and III also had a lower-level gas-generation ‘Keller’ behind the 5 big three-muffle ovens. It almost must have been so: heat-generation, coke input, maintenance, etc. necessarily had to take place on a lower level than the cremation room. It also separates operational activities from the cremation site. All this justifies the supposition that there was a room or souterrain (‘Vergasungskeller) below or partly below the cremation room, as is the case at Buchenwald.

If so, it’s logical and completely normal to call this Generatorgase sub-level: “Vergasungskeller”.

Is this the end of the “Vergasungskeller” myth, or is there someone who can explain this isn’t true?


Here we are:
Attachments
Grundriß Keller Krema II und III.jpg
Groundplan basement Krema II & III Birkenau
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
Orwell 1984

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9866
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 months ago (Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:55 pm)

Germania said:
One room in crematorium 4 is called "Gasskammer" and there are numerous documents for gas-tight doors and windows installed in the crematora.
Oh please. This has been easily debunked long ago, see:

bomb shelter ads debunk 'peepholes' & 'gas tight doors'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=610&p=3629&hilit=gas+tight+hannover#p3629
Image

Gas-tight doors and the German Air Raid Shelter Technology
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5488&p=36202&hilit=gas+tight+hannover#p36202
Image

Typical Jewish Supremacist fraud:
Image
The door at the concentration camp Majdanek from which the USHMM made the replica which is now on display in Washington D.C.. At right, the real function of the door and thousands more like it is shown in a widely distributed German ad for bomb-shelter doors and window covers, military and civilian.


This is too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests