Vergassungskeller question

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ClaudiaRothenbach
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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:02 am)

Bob wrote:According to the same logic, the documents speaking about installing stoves in medical room, at water installations, brick layer works and etc. are forged too since these work reports are written with spelling errors too and without the "criminal traces," quite the contrary.


1. There is only this one miskate in the doc. The rest is correct.
2. There is not only a spelling error but also wrong word order as well as grammar.
3. The ink and thickness of the two words is different.
4. Additionally the words are in a position where it is easy to add them later.

Bob wrote:Please explain who and for what purpose allegedly forged these documents.

:mrgreen:
A forger! To fabricate proof.

Bob wrote:Please explain why this alleged forger speaks in singular and not in plural about the gas chamber, ...

Do you mean I should explain why a forger that is not able to write correct German wrote bullshit?

Bob wrote:why he called other rooms by their normal name or simply as "chambers" instead speaking in plural about gas chambers in accordance with the post war story.

Did he?

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Hektor » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:42 am)

neugierig wrote:Bob, the issue is grammar, not misspelling. I was born in 1937 when German was still spoken in Germany, and I still have some of that ‘sound’, if you will, in my ears. Todays Denglisch – De = Deutsch and -englisch for English – hurts my ears. So does the German used in some of the documents. Why would a document as such be produced? Because it contains the word, horror, “Gaskammer”....

But, no expert will go near this, for good reasons because it would be a career ender. Therefore all some of us can do is pick away at it, to the dismay of the Industry.
...

Again, the document doesn't imply the rooms the Exterminationists claim were homicidal gas chambers.

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Bob » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:58 am)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Bob, the issue is grammar, not misspelling.
[...]

BTW, did you say that you are fluent in German?


Yes, some non-German worker didn´t handle German perfectly, native born Germans, Americans, whatever produce spelling and grammar errors too. As I said in my previous comment, here is the second presence of the same "slip," but on the place refuting Claudia´s hypothesis about an empty space, same goes for the presence of "Gassdichtenfenster" in the middle of the document.

I repeat, to base a forgery accusation solely on the spelling or grammar errors is unfounded and erroneous approach leaving aside evidence which refute it. I didn´t say anything about my German.

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:1. There is only this one miskate in the doc. The rest is correct.
2. There is not only a spelling error but also wrong word order as well as grammar.
3. The ink and thickness of the two words is different.
4. Additionally the words are in a position where it is easy to add them later.


1,2. Some Polish worker had problem mainly with the correct spelling of particular words so he repeated the same mistakes in other documents as well and since these mistakes are in the middle of the document or on the first line, you simply cannot claim that these parts were forged and inserted into the original document.

3. I do not see such a thing, but I see that some other words not disputed by you are much darker and thicker than the rest, some are thinner and lighter than the rest, so your hypothesis is again groundless.
Image

4. Addressed above in my previous comment, re read the relevant part please. I can only add that these work sheets contain description of the jobs and name of the room so it really does not make sense to claim that there was originally some space later used for your alleged insertion of forged words.

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote::mrgreen:
A forger! To fabricate proof.


Proof of what? That there were water installations related to another document which speaks about plumbing work and "execution of sanitary installations"? That the stoves were installed at water installations and in the medical room instead in the gas chamber(s)? That there was "großer" or "großen Raum” instead of "Auskleideraum" for alleged victims? This alleged forger was - no doubt - some crypto-revisionist.

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Do you mean I should explain why a forger that is not able to write correct German wrote bullshit?


Your alleged forger allegedly used the term "Gasskammer" for one of the rooms so I am asking you why didn´t he simply used plural "Kammern" from the sheets prepared during the next days. If these sheets are forgeries too according to you, then why did this forger called some rooms as "Kammer" and "Kammern" during the previous and next days instead of calling them "Gasskammer" again to support the gassing propaganda story instead of contradicting it with the use of singular?

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:36 pm)

Bob wrote:
ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Bob, the issue is grammar, not misspelling.


That is a lie!
I never wrote that.

We do not need lies here in this forum. :bootyshake:
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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Bob » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 09, 2013 6:12 pm)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:
Bob wrote:
ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Bob, the issue is grammar, not misspelling.


That is a lie!
I never wrote that.

We do not need lies here in this forum. :bootyshake:


(my emphasis) My apologies, I copied quote with your name to save time and forgot to change it to "neugierig." Here is correct version of my alleged "lie":

neugierig wrote:Bob, the issue is grammar, not misspelling.
[...]

BTW, did you say that you are fluent in German?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, thanks for your nice words and accusation and please, show me the second alleged lie I allegedly commited since you spoke in plural.

I also want to ask you if you have lied when you erroneously claimed that the document reads "im Gaskammer" when in fact one can reads "im Gasskammer"

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Bob » 6 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 09, 2013 7:12 pm)

Hohenems wrote:Bob,

You make good points but that leaves the question of what you think this document means?


Carlo Mattogno documented it in length and I agree, so in short - they planned emergency delousing chambers in crematorium in the light of bad sanitary conditions in the camp since the mortality was still terrible, mortality was around some 7,500 in March, daily mortality around 240, complete closure of the camp was ordered already on February 8, 1943. Because of this they planned emergency delousing chambers in crematoria to improve the situation and they also prepared installations marked in the documents as "Execution of sanitary installations." thus the function of the crematoria was completely the opposite of what exterminationists claim, i.e. - to improve hygiene and to save lives. Later in May they started large program called "special measures for the improvement of the hygienic installations." They also planned to install "bathing installations" for the whole camp (obvious from the number of showers) in the underground rooms of the two big Krematoria II and III. In the light of the progress of construction of Central Sauna and new installations in BW 5a and BW 5b (still standing delousing blocks), this plan was abandoned and probably implemented only partly.

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby borjastick » 6 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:39 am)

Well maybe at last when one looks at this last post and the position made in it, plus the death rates at the time it all begins to make sense. The new entrants to the camp were deloused in the cremas turned delousing chambers and the bodies of the increasing death toll were also processed through the same or similar facilities. Hence the claims of the jews that 'showers led to killings'. It all looks like a complete concoction and mishmash of the actual facts and circumstances.

It is quite clear that no proof of gas chambers exists and that the aim of the camp management was to preserve life and provide sufficient care for those interned.
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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Hektor » 1 year 6 months ago (Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:47 am)

borjastick wrote:....
It is quite clear that no proof of gas chambers exists and that the aim of the camp management was to preserve life and provide sufficient care for those interned.
To put it this way:
- "Vergasung" was the word used for delousing. Check the Kommandanturbefehle for this: https://archive.org/details/Kommandantu ... kungen530S
- Vergasungskeller can be a room used for fumigation or used to store materials for fumigation.
- The document says the Leichenkeller (mortuary) wasn't finished, it's ceiling couldn't be build.
- The Leichenkeller is the room, exterminationists allege was the homicidal gas chamber.

The document is of NO help to the extermination thesis in anyway. The fact that they keep on using this document and interpret meaning into it, it doesn't have, is a clear indication that they are either deluded or lying.

Bear in mind that an extermination program as alleged would have left the posterior with a vast amount of documentary and archaeological evidence. There is nothing congruent with the exterminationist thesis. The evidences found are perfectly in line with the frame of Revisionist views on the subject.

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Rogal Dorn » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Mar 03, 2018 7:16 am)

Hektor wrote:
borjastick wrote:....
It is quite clear that no proof of gas chambers exists and that the aim of the camp management was to preserve life and provide sufficient care for those interned.
To put it this way:
- "Vergasung" was the word used for delousing. Check the Kommandanturbefehle for this: https://archive.org/details/Kommandantu ... kungen530S
- Vergasungskeller can be a room used for fumigation or used to store materials for fumigation.
- The document says the Leichenkeller (mortuary) wasn't finished, it's ceiling couldn't be build.
- The Leichenkeller is the room, exterminationists allege was the homicidal gas chamber.

The document is of NO help to the extermination thesis in anyway. The fact that they keep on using this document and interpret meaning into it, it doesn't have, is a clear indication that they are either deluded or lying.

Bear in mind that an extermination program as alleged would have left the posterior with a vast amount of documentary and archaeological evidence. There is nothing congruent with the exterminationist thesis. The evidences found are perfectly in line with the frame of Revisionist views on the subject.


Do you have a german source that vergasung means fumigation? I'm not fluent in german but I have come across wise guys who claim begasung means fumigation and that the prefix in the german language can change the entire meaning of words. you linked the commandaturbefehl book as source, it would be great if you could point me out to the page where it is made clear in german that vergasung refers to fumigation.

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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Pia Kahn » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:39 am)

Rogal Dorn wrote:
Hektor wrote:
borjastick wrote:....
It is quite clear that no proof of gas chambers exists and that the aim of the camp management was to preserve life and provide sufficient care for those interned.
To put it this way:
- "Vergasung" was the word used for delousing. Check the Kommandanturbefehle for this: https://archive.org/details/Kommandantu ... kungen530S
- Vergasungskeller can be a room used for fumigation or used to store materials for fumigation.
- The document says the Leichenkeller (mortuary) wasn't finished, it's ceiling couldn't be build.
- The Leichenkeller is the room, exterminationists allege was the homicidal gas chamber.

The document is of NO help to the extermination thesis in anyway. The fact that they keep on using this document and interpret meaning into it, it doesn't have, is a clear indication that they are either deluded or lying.

Bear in mind that an extermination program as alleged would have left the posterior with a vast amount of documentary and archaeological evidence. There is nothing congruent with the exterminationist thesis. The evidences found are perfectly in line with the frame of Revisionist views on the subject.


Do you have a german source that vergasung means fumigation? I'm not fluent in german but I have come across wise guys who claim begasung means fumigation and that the prefix in the german language can change the entire meaning of words. you linked the commandaturbefehl book as source, it would be great if you could point me out to the page where it is made clear in german that vergasung refers to fumigation.


Vergasung can mean two different things:
Turning a liquid or solid body into a gas, therefore the carburator in an engine is called "Vergaser" or
using a gas for killing creatures, including animals or humans.

Begasung can be used as a synonym for using gas for killing creatures.

If you don't mind Wikipedia as a source, then you can find this definition of "Vergasung" here:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergasung
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Re: Vergassungskeller question

Postby Hektor » 1 year 6 months ago (Sat Mar 03, 2018 10:53 am)

Rogal Dorn wrote:....
Do you have a german source that vergasung means fumigation? I'm not fluent in german but I have come across wise guys who claim begasung means fumigation and that the prefix in the german language can change the entire meaning of words. you linked the commandaturbefehl book as source, it would be great if you could point me out to the page where it is made clear in german that vergasung refers to fumigation.

The Kommandanturbefehle of Auschwitz are my German source for that. It's not only proof that "Vergasung" can mean fumigation in German, but it also proves that this was exactly what it meant in the context of Auschwitz.
https://archive.org/stream/Kommandantur ... S_djvu.txt
...4. Vergasung des Stabsgebäudes

In der Zeit vom Sonnabend, den 24.1.42,8.00 Uhr, bis Dienstag, den 27[.1.4]2,8.00 Uhr
wird das Stabsgebäude vergast und darf während dieser Zeit nicht betreten werden.
Dazu sind folgende Punkte zu beachten:

1. Ab Donnerstag früh werden die Fenster verklebt und dürfen danach nicht mehr
geöffnet werden.

2. Als Schlafraum während der Vergasungszeit wird die neue Baracke neben der
Bauleitung hergerichtet.

3. Am Freitagabend ist nach einem Bad die Wäsche zu wechseln. Die Schmutzwä¬
sche verbleibt auf den Stuben, damit sie mit vergast wird
.

4. Sonnabendfrüh wird die Ausgehuniform] angezogen, Speisen und verderbliche
Gegenstände aus den Sp[in]d[e]n genommen und der Spind offengelassen. Außer
dem notwendigsten Waschzeug darf nichts aus den Spinden bzw. Stuben mitge¬
nommen werden, da sonst die Gefahr einer Neueinschleppung von Ungeziefer
besteht. Jegliches Mitnehmen von Kleidungsstücken, Koffern, Aktenmappen
usw. ist verboten und werden [sic] [bei] Zuwiderhandlungen bestraft. ...

...9. Irgendwelche Beschädigungen von Gegenständen entstehen durch die Vergasung
nicht.

Translation of the important parts:
- gassing of the staff building. => fumigation of the staff building.
- Time and date of the gassing (fumigation) of the building is given.
- During the time of the gassing/fumigation another building is to be used for sleeping.
- Dirty laundry to stay in the rooms, so it can be gassed/fumigated together.
- Gassing/fumigation doesn't cause damage to items.

Ein heute mit leichten Vergiftungserscheinungen durch Blausäure aufgetretener Krank¬
heitsfall gibt Veranlassung, allen an Vergasungen Beteiligten und allen übrigen SS-Ange-
hörigen bekanntzugeben, daß insbesondere beim öffnen der vergasten Räume von SS-
Angehörigen ohne Maske wenigstens 5 Stunden hindurch ein Abstand von 15 Metern von
der Kammer gewahrt werden muß. Hierbei ist besonders auf die Windrichtung zu achten.

This is a warning to those involved in gassing/fumigation. They are to keep distance of 15 meters from gassed/fumigated rooms for 5 hours.

Der Stabsscharführer jeder Kompanie veranlaßt, daß die Sachen von etwa durch
Krankheit usw. verhinderten Männern mitvergast werden und führt darüber eine Li¬
ste. Nach Wiedereintreffen dieser Männer, sind diese unverzüglich auf das SS-Revier
zu schicken, wo eine Körperentlausung nachgeholt wird. Diese Männer dürfen erst die
Unterkunft betreten, wenn sie entlaust worden sind und eine Bescheinigung darüber
vorweisen.
The stuff of absent men is to be gassed/fumigated together. When those men come back, they have to be deloused as well, before they are allowed to enter the accommodation.

There is nothing mentioned in the Kommandanturbefehle that indicates deliberate killing of people using gas or Zyklon B whatsoever.

But to a new inmate that talking about gassings could be quite frightening, especially, when this is fueled by older inmates pulling a joke on him:"You'll be gassed, if..."


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