Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ps » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:21 am)

The diagram shows the killing times, which had to be reached with the several times testified wire net columns of the Michal Kula.

Image
http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... o-columns/

Parameter in the diagram is the gas chamber temperature. Filip Friedman reported in its book " That is Auschwitz" 1945, that 27°C could be attained only very with difficulty. In addition 20 Juden/m² had to be stacked in four layers. It reports clearly that below this temperature the gas generators could not work, since only starting from this temperature the evaporation began. The Kulakonstruktion is thus clearly evaporation equipment and no evaporation equipment.

In the diagram one computed and/or one determined by experiment, how long it lasts, until that warmed up to cyclone for a given granulates initial temperature of e.g. 18°C to 25,7°C and how quickly thereafter cyclone and/or the HCN could evaporate. As in the Experimet the thermal output and/or the evaporation achievement was determined.

At the same time then by calculation determines which HCN concentration in the gas chamber adjusts itself, if at the same time the Jews remove the HCN from gas chamber air by respiration. If a Jew 60mg HCN had incorporated by respiration, as death one interpreted. In the diagram now several gas chamber temperatures for (28, 30, 32°C) the pure killing time starting from beginning of the evaporation indicated (e.g. with 32°C 20 minutes) are and the intersection with granulates initial temperature 18°C as the 32°C curve the total time results in about 34 minutes starting from latches of the door to entrance of death, here then. The difference 34 minutes - 20 minutes is the warm up period, until at all the granulates warmed up to the boiling temperature of the HCN of 18°C to 25,7°C. Here thus 14 minutes.

During the experiment gas chamber air was held 100% r.H. That results in the highest possible thermal output and thus evaporation achievement.

Here Höß situation with 1500 Jews and 7kg Zyklon B:
Image

The line at 20 minutes corresponds the maximum killing time maintained by witnesses. The killing time intervall lies after testimonies within the range of 1 minute until in extreme cases 20 minutes. On the average at 7 minutes. One can recognize that the 20 minute border cannot even have been achieved.

Thus all testimonies are disproved.

The evaporation rates of Irmscher and/or Rudolf are not relevant. Here it concerns clearly evaporation (Verdampfung) and not around evaporation (Verdunstung)! Besides an evaporation (Verdunstung) would not function at all, since at 100% r.H the cyclone granulates would drown in the condensation water.

More: http://forum.thiazi.net/showthread.php?t=127906

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby patriot9878 » 1 decade 3 months ago (Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:35 am)

The Jews are stuck with Zyklon-B, because it's what the Germans used to kill lice. So they are stuck with the Zyklon-B and they are stuck with the buildings they say they were gassed in. If the Jews had just said they were shot and mistreated and let it go, but they got foolish and started talking about lamp shades and soap and they made up so many lies that anyone could see they were lying.
But the historians never ask why don't you Jews take in your own experts and examine the camps? Why? Because if they take in their own experts they will open that can of worms they don't want opened. They know then they've opened it for debate. So just make movies and no real examination of the camps.
I could debate a whole panel of Jews and destroy them.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby nathan » 1 decade 3 months ago (Fri Aug 07, 2009 10:10 am)

PS deserves thanks for all his trouble. Perhaps I am alone in finding his explanation even harder to understand than his diagram. Or perhaps he lacks Rudolf’s gift for lucid prose exposition.

The diagram was hard to follow because it tries to depict at least four variables within two dimensions. There seems to be a dependent variable, Total Time, which I take to be the time it would for 15 kilos, no less, to kill 2000 people in a defined space. Total Time is by definition the sum of of Zyklonganulatwarmzeit and Killing Time. This total depends on two independent temperature variables: gas chamber temperature and Zyklondosentemperature. But killing time seems to be fixed directly by gas chamber temperature. So for a given chamber temperature the remaining variation along any isotherm must be between Seidentemperature and the variable component of Total Time which is Zuklongranulwarmzeit. The graph seems to say that for Seidentemperature of 22 and a gas chamber temperature of 28 it would take a total time of 70 minutes to kill the 2000 people. 49 of those minutes would be killing time.
Even supposing I have read the diagram correctly, I do not understand what is represented by the terms I have left in German because a simple translation is no help. And even if I understood all of that, I could offer Germania no reason to believe that any of it is true. If the research is as formidable as it looks then the author should submit his equations to a serious scientific journal. In its present form however the diagram would not be accepted. For one thing, it would have substitute “people” for “Jews”. I know that members are bursting with thoughtful opinions about Jews, but from the scientific point of view there is nothing physiologically special about them. Prick them and they bleed; tickle them and they laugh.

Having no scientific training I would take some convincing that ZB was an impossible technique. But it is easy to show that it was not the best available technique. It is not impossible to dig a grave with a table-spoon, but nobody would do so if he had a spade.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ps » 1 decade 2 months ago (Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:14 pm)

Here a picture, I hope it is self explaning. All what you want you can see:

v6cygt6s.png

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby nathan » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:31 pm)

Members will of course find this picture entirely "self-explaining." But what is its source? If it is a product of your own ingenuity with computer graphics, as I suspect, then you should not be shy about claiming credit for it. But let us not divert this thread from the serious and precise question raised by Playwright. A parallel thread has been started by FP Berg about another proposed "spade", namely producer gas. Berg is technically very well educated so I am sure he will be able to evaluate any diagram from you according to its exact worth.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ps » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sat Sep 12, 2009 6:45 am)

The question is not, from where graphics comes separates which it states!

This graphics developed due to different genuine prosecution witness statements and disproves the entire Holocaust. The Jews (I do not say humans!) stated, they were killed with cyclone B. They tell, which devices, e.g. the Kula wire net columns were for this used.

They falsify even papers, as " e.g. of; Drahtnetzeinschubvorrichtung" or similar imbecility the speech is. They report in their construction drawings, how large the gas chambers were. They extort from e.g. Rudolf Höß, which quantity cyclone B was needed for a gasification. They tell, how many Jews (not humans!) into the gas chambers were pressed. And it report on it, how long the killing is to have lasted!

All these data were used without it primarily to doubt for the production of this graphics. That is the special at this procedure! The statements of the Jews expose themselves by contradiction with nature as lies!

I do not have any HCN - concentrations in the gas chambers provided separate the arising concentrations as function of the time compute let. The Jews (not humans!) stated, they were killed by prussic acid steams. This was testified in many court processes and in the entire Holocaustliteratur is repeated. For 60 years!

The cyclone granulates must be brought only once on the boiling temperature, before prussic acid can evaporate. In addition energy and time are necessary. Only if this boiling temperature is reached, the evaporation can the gas-free setting, thus begin and the poisoning process begin. The Jews (not humans!) inhale prussic acid steams from gas chamber air and only in such a way can them into the poison benefit come.

Simply a HCN concentration in gas chamber air is not thus present, if one gives cyclone B to the gas chamber, but the HCN concentration develops only in the course of the time. According to respiratory activity and the HCN concentration the Jews will become (not humans!) HCN from gas chamber air take up and into their organism build. In graphics became provided that when admission 1 mg HCN/kg body weight then death enters. That is of Peter's indicated lower limit.

In the diagram one sees that the green curve continues to rise with 50 mg no longer. This, because with a body weight by 50 kg 1 mg HCN /kg was then taken up and death entered. The yellow curve reflects the HCN concentration again. One recognizes that at this time the yellow curve rises steeply. The reason for this is that HCN gas is still produced, but by the respiration no HCN of gas chamber air to be more withdrawed can. Then uses 3 minutes later the ventilation.

The magenta curve shows the gasification achievement. One recognizes that also before the actual evaporation an evaporation is present already. But only with reaching the boiling temperature of the granulates (white curve) the evaporation begins correctly. That is then the leap in magenta - the curve. One recognizes that with the time limit by 20 minutes only for instance 1mg HCN can be taken up altogether. That would not be still for a long time deadly for humans.

Should have been deadly however already for Jews? Now you know also, why I speak of Jews and not of humans.

Here the statements at the killing times:

Concerning the killing times e.g. see apart from the statements of R.
Höß and R. Böck: Court of assizes Hagen, judgement of 24.7.1970, Az.
11 Ks 1/70, P. 97 (5 minutes);

Finally Trial letter OF the Prosecution, after And Walendy, Auschwitz
during the industrial union color process, publishing house for
nationality and time stories research, Vlotho 1981, P. 47-50 (3 to in
the extreme 15 min
);

E. Kogon, H. long leg, A. Rückerl et al., National Socialist mass
killings by poisonous gas, S. Fischer publishing house, Frankfurt
1983, ubiquitously (immediately to 10 min., more rarely to 20 min.);

J. Buszko (Hg.), Auschwitz, Nazi Extermination Camp, 2nd Aufl., inter
+press Publishers, Warsaw 1985, in co-operation with the national
museum Auschwitz, P. 114 + 118 (few minutes);

H.G. Eagle, H. long leg, E. Lingens pure (Hg.), Auschwitz, 3rd Aufl.,
European publishing house, Cologne 1984, P. 66, 80 + 200 (few until 10
minutes
);

Hamburg Institut for social research (Hg.), the Auschwitz booklets,
volume 1, Beltz publishing house, Weinheim 1987, S. 261ff., 294
(presently/immediately to 10 min.);

C. Vaillant Couturier, IMT, Bd. VI, P. 216 (5 to 7 minutes);

M. Nyiszli in: G. Schoenberner (Hg.), we saw it, to Fourier,
Wiesbaden 1981, P. 250 (5 min.);

C.S. Bendel, in: H. long leg, humans in Auschwitz, European
publishing house, Vienna 1987, P. 221 (end of the victim cries after 2
min.
);

S. Broad in: B. Naumann, Auschwitz, Athenäum, Frankfurt/Main 1968, P.
217 (4 min.), after 10-15 min Türöffnung:

A. Rückerl, NS-Verbrechen before court, 2nd Aufl., C.F. Mueller,
Heidelberg, 1984, S. 58f. ; K. Hölbinger in: H. long leg, the
Auschwitz process, European publishing house, Frankfurt/Main 1965, P.
73 (1 min.):

R. Böck, ebenda, P. 74 (after Türschluß10 min crying victims,
afterwards Türöffnung);

H. strong, ebenda, P. 439 (10-15 min. crying victims);

F. Mueller, ebenda, P. 463 (8-10 min.);

E. Pyš, ebenda, P. 748 (after some minutes turning the fan on);

K. Lill, ebenda, P. 750 (to a few seconds after cyclone leg throw a
cry, smoke poured to a few minutes after from the chimney);

Minutes of the appraisal by Professor Dr. G. Jagschitz, 3. - 5. Day
of the hearing of the criminal action Honsik, 29.4. , 30.4. ,
4.5.1992, Az. 20e Vr 14184 and Hv 5720/90, regional court Vienna, P.
443 (2-3 min);

Document of 3868-PS, IMT volume 33, S. 275ff., quotes Rosenthal,
“final solution of the Jew question”, mass murder or “gas chamber lie”
after L.? , Publishing house Darmstädter of sheets, Darmstadt 1979 (2
to exceptionally up to 15 min
);

R. Höß, in: M. Broszat (Hg.), commander in Auschwitz, German
publishing house, Stuttgart 1958 (30 min for total procedure,
including ventilation
);

Image

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby nathan » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Sep 13, 2009 8:14 am)

I hear the sound of white coats flapping. Does anyone need this?

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ginger » 1 decade 1 month ago (Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:04 pm)

I hopes some day science will debunk the gas chamber story. Discussions about politics, racism, history, just go round and round.

I think ps is debunking the witness testimony that says people died in gas chambers in 5 or 15 minutes. He says that it would take much longer - 40 minutes? I can not read German.

Interesting to me is that Zyclon-B would have to be heated before the crystals gave off a poison steam, but the story seems to say that the crystals were simply dropped into the gas chamber.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby nathan » 1 decade 1 month ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:41 am)

Its news to me that the zyklon pellets were heated before being dropped. Sounds dangerous.

PS’s text is of course a computerised translation – a discourteous offering - but I suspect that the original German was gibberish already.

The diagram seems to me, among other puzzles, to suggest that there is no significant evaporation of HCN below the HCN boiling point of 26 degrees. If that is what was intended, then evidence and sources should be supplied. You do not prove anything by simply drawing a curve.

A sensible introduction to Zyklon is by Arthur Butz, who (and without mystification) has most effectively assaulted the standard doctrines by deploying not specialised science but common understanding.

http://www.codoh.com/butz/di/dl/zyklon.html

Germar Rudolf has carried the chemistry forward (and without gibberish) but as far as I can find to no very definite conclusion.

I take it that nobody has any more information on CYANOGAS?



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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ginger » 1 decade 1 month ago (Fri Sep 18, 2009 11:49 am)

David Cole in "46 Unanswered Questions about Gas Chambers" said that for de-lousing purposes Zyklon B was heated on a hot plate.

Henryk Tauber, witness of the gas chamber operations, said that at Auschwitz the assigned medical doctor dropped or lowered the pellets into the gas chamber, with no heating of the crystals, although he also testified that he was keep in a store room while the gassing operation took place.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ginger » 1 decade 1 month ago (Fri Sep 18, 2009 12:21 pm)

Also, the Holocaust Museum states (On-line exhibits- Mapping the holocaust - Auschwitz) that the Zyklon-B pellets converted to lethal gas when exposed to air. So the Nazi doctor, wearing a gas mask, simply had to open the container and lower the pellets into the chamber.

David Cole wrote that the pellets had to be heated for the de-lousing chambers.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby nathan » 1 decade 1 month ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 8:55 am)

David Cole wrote:

“(the newer, more energy efficient chambers came equipped with Zyklon evaporators, which would heat the granules on a kind of hot plate, and blow the gas onto the clothes, mattresses, etc. This was more energy efficient because it was a waste of fuel to heat an ENTIRE ROOM when it was only the ZYKLON GRANULES that needed to be warmed up.”


So Ginger is largely right, although the pellets did not “have to be” heated and could not have been heated when being scattered in barracks. But it had passed me by that the pellets themselves (rather than the ambient air) could have been specially warmed at all. The invention suggests that these fumigation chambers for clothes must have been in constant demand. Even with a warm ambience these pellets must have taken many hours to become totally inert.

As for homicidal gas chambers, the official story concerns only heating the ambient air. According to Dr Piper, interviewed by DD Desjardins, the heating in Krema 1 depended on body heat alone. In Kremas 2 through 5 the heating was achieved by placing portable bins full of hot coke in the chamber, previous to the gassing. You might think they could have done better. Alleged gas chambers in Krema 1 and kremas 3 and 4 had no ventilation system but some official accounts have warm air being blown into morgue 1 of Krema 2. I have forgotten how the old bunkers were said to have been heated.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby ginger » 1 decade 1 month ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:37 am)

nathan -

I was working off of ps's graph which I think is an elegant summary of data. According to his graph, given that 1500 people are stuffed into a gas chamber, they would die of suffocation (selbstvergasung) before the Zyklon B had time to heat up and poison them.

You are saying that the rooms would have to be warm, at least, for the pellets to give off gas. The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum says that the pellets would give off lethal gas upon exposure to air, and that Zyklon B was an amazing, efficient tool to use on the Jews. I respect and appreciate ps's more detailed analysis of the alleged murder by gas chamber.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby patriot9878 » 1 decade 1 month ago (Sun Sep 20, 2009 7:11 pm)

The are 1,000 better ways to kill people than using an insecticide. The Jews are stuck with the insecticide story, because that's all there was there. Zyklon-B used to delouse the clothing. The Jews made many mistakes. They just told a bunch of lies and never thought about telling better lies. If they were smart they would have just said the Germans shot and beat them. Then they wouldn't have to provide proof. But they said at first they were gassed in the shower rooms. So now they are stuck with this lie. If they had thought about it they could have said the Germans put poison in their food and when they ate all the Jews passed out and they cremated them. This would make more sense.
They first said they went to take a shower and then gas came out, but they couldn't explain how you could kill thousands a day like this. So then they switched it to they walked into the gas chamber and were like sardines and then the gas, but all they have is zyklon-B pellets which would work in a room filled with people unless it was crushed into powder form and then blown around with a fan and then it would have to be very hot to do this. So the Jews have told a lie and because all you have to do is examine the shower rooms in which they have and everyone found that Zyklon-B was used in the delosuing chambers and was not used in the shower rooms, because of the residue in the walls.
Many people have gone to Auschwitz and came to the same conclusion. No gas used in the shower rooms. It's not hard to believe, because the story is ridiculous as it is. The Germans have truth on their side.
We keep rehashing over and over again. The Jews are liars and all the Jewish Commies that came to America lied about being members of the Communist party should be deported.

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Re: Why use Zyklon-B? CYANOGAS is the superior killing tool!

Postby Moderator » 1 decade 1 month ago (Wed Sep 23, 2009 4:46 pm)

ps,
Your objectionable language caused your last post to be deleted. M1
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.


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