Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

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Pepper
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Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Pepper » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:25 pm)

I’m sure most, if not all of you have seen mullencamp’s latest childish antic in his lame attempt to cravenly back out of his acceptance of nafcash’s The Final Solution Forensic Challenge.

He’s now “insisting” that nafcash put some kind of BS statement on their website so he can take them to court if nafcash doesn’t accept his “proof” published in skeptic magazine that he’s located / proven the existence of a grave at Treblinka that contains just 1% of the alleged mass murder there. (Like he even has a chance of ever getting anything he writes published outside of his own shit blog.)

But notice that Mermelstein never asked the IHR to post anything on their website before he was able to take them to court. Which proves mullencamp latest ploy is yet another fraudulent red herring he’s trying to construct to hide his cowardice. (Who in the world doesn’t already know that you’re a coward robert?)

Nor did Mermelstein need such a statement posted by the IHR on their website in order to obtain a judgment in his favor from “a U.S. court of justice” in his lawsuit against the IHR. Which proves mullencamp latest ploy is yet another fraudulent red herring he’s trying to construct to hide his cowardice. (I hear even his fellow HC “friends” are snickering behind his back about his being maneuvered into this situation by Gerdes and are distancing themselves from him as he makes an utter fool out of himself with his insane, juvenile chimp antics.)

So why doesn’t mullancamp just contact Mermelstein’s lawyer and get the ball rolling? Why is he so terrified of following through with his acceptance of The Final Solution Forensic Challenge? Isn’t 15 months a long enough amount of time to get his “proof” published?

Maybe he’s already submitted something to skeptic magazine, and it was rejected? That would explain why he’s admitting he’s gotten cold feet now that Mr. Gerdes has turned up the heat on him.

Every time nafcash gives mullencamp what he wishes for, he shifts the goal posts and starts crying again that things are just too tough for him to prove. Can you imagine? 15 months of work and he still can’t locate / prove the existence of just one grave that contains just 1/10 of 1% of the alleged mass murder.

I wonder if mullencamp could locate / prove the existence of just one single pound of bone fragments? How many months do you think we would have to wait to see that proof? What’s wrong robert, don’t you know how to use a shovel and a scale?

Let’s see one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented. You can locate and document the existence of just 4 pounds of bone fragments out of all the alleged millions and millions of pounds you claim exist in gigantic graves at these camps, can’t you robert?

Let’s see them then, coward. Just one pound from each camp, dug from a grave, on a scale, unimpeachably documented.

Come on coward, “show the world” what you’ve got. Help put an end to holocaust denial. Do it for the children. Do it for all those poor jewish children who were tore in half by the Germans, with their bare hands.



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Drew J
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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Drew J » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:34 pm)

Let’s see one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented. You can locate and document the existence of just 4 pounds of bone fragments out of all the alleged millions and millions of pounds you claim exist in gigantic graves at these camps, can’t you robert?

I'm going to be the devil's advocate here for a second and point out that Roberto has some interesting photos of bone fragments in his first post near the top.

The "Famous THIRTY TREBLINKA QUESTIONS" by Roberto Muehlenkamp.
http://r odohforum.yuku.com/topic/7957

Does Skeptic magazine know about these?

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Pepper » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:51 pm)

What part of this don't you understand Drew

Let’s see one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented.

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Pepper » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 11, 2009 12:53 pm)

What do you think about this Drew

Notice that Mermelstein never asked the IHR to post anything on their website before he was able to take them to court. Which proves mullencamp latest ploy is yet another fraudulent red herring he’s trying to construct to hide his cowardice. (Who in the world doesn’t already know that you’re a coward robert?)

Nor did Mermelstein need such a statement posted by the IHR on their website in order to obtain a judgment in his favor from “a U.S. court of justice” in his lawsuit against the IHR. Which proves mullencamp latest ploy is yet another fraudulent red herring he’s trying to construct to hide his cowardice. (I hear even his fellow HC “friends” are snickering behind his back about his being maneuvered into this situation by Gerdes and are distancing themselves from him as he makes an utter fool out of himself with his insane, juvenile chimp antics.)

So why doesn’t mullancamp just contact Mermelstein’s lawyer and get the ball rolling?

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Drew J » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:41 pm)

What part of this don't you understand Drew

Well Muehlenkamp does have bone fragments on those photos that are very interesting. It's not that I doubt the revisionist side of things in general since I am one. But what I wonder is what explanation can be given by a revisionist for those photos? If the extermination theorists claim the nazis smashed all the skulls and teeth, then what are those photos of? Stuff the nazis didn't have time to crush, pulverize and burn, or stuff they didn't need to because there was no crime and they probably just died of typhus or something, like people in Auschwitz were dying? Could this be this case since the claims based around the Reinhardt camps are questionable? Keep in mind we still don't have scientific confirmation or scientific lab analysis of ash piles showing they are of human origin, or that those supposed well documented polish archives bear out Kola's 1999 Belzec core samples DRAWINGS.

He also says that those concrete barriers were put in to protect grave robbers and not to prevent ivestigation. Funny how it's so convenient for him to claim that. Again he takes that stupid polish grave robbing article for granted. Lots of hearsay, and photos of alleged grave robbers but not of the booty they are alleged to have stole. Again, that's why it's not proof. I don't frankly see what's stoping the extermination theorists from blocking off the place from grave robbers while they remove the barriers and then dig to prove once and for all what is under Treblinka. If I can imagine it, then it's logically possible. But in this case, it's also materially possible. So they can't make excuses anymore. The fact that Muehlenkamp refuses to acknowledge how even if what he says is true about the barriers being used to stop graverobbers, also, by way of happy coincidence for their ilk, prevents real archaeological work. The game has been rigged in their favour.

I will also agree with your last post that Muehlenkamp is blowing a lot of hot air. Just like he was blowing hot air here.

Believer tactics - Muehlenkamp: A pot calling a kettle black
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5725
As soon as Drew J has explained by what rules or standards of evidence or what logic I would have to "show" chemical analysis backing up Kola's conclusions to prove that these conclusions are accurate, I might try to get access to the archives in question.

Here again we see Roberto pulling the same trick that most believers of the holocaustianity religion do. Demand that we clarify what evidence we would need, and then he would decide if it's worth getting. Funny how he says earlier that I ignore evidence. Therefore if that's the case, then he shouldn't want to listen to my idiot demands since they would by implication of his earlier words be necessarily idiotic. He should get the evidence himself and then shove it in my face, Gerdes, Bradley Smith's and the face of the rest of the world. Since he can't or won't be able to support his case, he pulls a trick and tries to make it all hang on me. Whatever it is, he should get it regardless of what an apparent moron like me would think. If I'm a moron, my opinion shouldn't matter or affect the evidence that's just waiting on a man like Roberto to be released to the world.

See how I just exopsed that little bullshit tactic of his? Again, Occam's Razor dictates that anyone who has evidence of a crime and that this person wants to prove their crime...they wouldn't hide it or make excuses for its absence and demand that we believe in this unclarified, undefined evidence despite its lack thereof.

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Pepper » 9 years 4 months ago (Sun Oct 11, 2009 6:47 pm)

I wonder if mullencamp could locate / prove the existence of just one single pound of bone fragments?

Let’s see one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented.



Drew, can you locate / prove the existence of just one single pound of bone fragments at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Can you show us one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented?


Drew

Keep in mind we still don't have scientific confirmation or scientific lab analysis of ash piles showing they are of human origin, or that those supposed well documented polish archives bear out Kola's 1999 Belzec core samples DRAWINGS.


We don't have irrefutable documentation that one single ounce of human remains was found at belzec by Kola.

Can you show us one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, irrefutably documented?

Can you show us an ounce of human remains NOT on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, irrefutably documented?

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Pepper » 9 years 4 months ago (Mon Oct 12, 2009 9:02 am)

Drew

Well Muehlenkamp does have bone fragments on those photos that are very interesting.



Let's see all the photos that you've got Drew, photos that show

remains that you can prove are human remains

that were taken at Babi Yar, Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka

that you can prove were taken at Babi Yar, Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka.

Proof Drew.

Let's see it.

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Drew J
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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Drew J » 9 years 4 months ago (Tue Oct 13, 2009 4:29 am)

Let's see all the photos that you've got Drew, photos that show

remains that you can prove are human remains

that were taken at Babi Yar, Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka

that you can prove were taken at Babi Yar, Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka.

Proof Drew.

Let's see it.

That's a good question for Roberto. Where did he get those photos from? What books? And what are their footnotes? What are the primary books where those photos first appeared? Who is said to be the author of the articles that first gave those photos to the world and who were the photos credited to? Can that person be proven to have been whatever the camp was at the time of those photos? What corroboration is there?

Good points Pepper.

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby AHolland » 9 years 2 months ago (Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:48 pm)

Drew, can you locate / prove the existence of just one single pound of bone fragments at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Can you show us one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented?

We don't have irrefutable documentation that one single ounce of human remains was found at belzec by Kola.

Can you show us one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, irrefutably documented?

Can you show us an ounce of human remains NOT on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, irrefutably documented?


I'm sorry I am quite new to this but this question pops up in my head: Scientifically you have the obligation to consider the reversed question:

Can you show they are not the remains of human bodies smashed to pieces?

As a large part of the world (arguably the majority) does seem to accept the Holocaust, is it not the obligation of those who deny it to refute THEIR arguments instead of asking them for proof? I think this might be a more effective and more convincing approach.

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby AHolland » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Nov 26, 2009 5:53 am)

AHolland wrote:I'm sorry I am quite new to this but this question pops up in my head: Scientifically you have the obligation to consider the reversed question:

Can you show they are not the remains of human bodies smashed to pieces?

As a large part of the world (arguably the majority) does seem to accept the Holocaust, is it not the obligation of those who deny it to refute THEIR arguments instead of asking them for proof? I think this might be a more effective and more convincing approach.


No Replies?

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby tyger » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Nov 26, 2009 6:03 am)

The argumentum ad ignorantiam [fallacy] is committed whenever it is argued that a proposition is true simply on the basis that it has not been proven false, or that it is false because it has not been proven true.[...] A qualification should be made at this point. In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence despite searching, as positive evidence towards its non-occurrence. (Copi 1953)

Is that OK?

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 2 months ago (Wed Dec 09, 2009 3:31 pm)

tyger:

"is it not the obligation of those who deny it to refute THEIR arguments instead of asking them for proof?"


tyger, do you "deny" that aliens are abducting humans and using them for breeding a new hybrid race of beings that will take over our planet?

Is it not your obligation to refute the above claim, instead of asking for proof?


tyger, if you were arrested, charged and convicted for murdering 21 children by tearing them in half with your bare hands, burying them in your back yard, then later digging them up, burning them, crushing their bones and reburying them in the same grave that you dug them out of; would you want the state to prove the allegations, or would you like to be forced to prove that no remains existed in your back yard, while you're sitting in jail cell and the state refusing to allow any further investigation?

What would you think if you knew the state had rock solid forensic evidence proving that there were no human remains in your back yard, but refused to release that information? What if the state demolished your house and built a parking lot over the area in question to prevent any further investigation? What if your attorney was threatened with a prison term himself if he didn't accept your conviction as final and keep his mouth shut about the utter fraud of your case?

What does the fact that there is no proof what-so-ever that any human remains are buried at Sobibor and Treblinka mean to you?


"A qualification should be made at this point. In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence as positive evidence of its non-occurrence"


tyger, if the Sobibor and Treblinka holocausts really did happen, there would be mountains of physical evidence to prove it. You couldn't NOT find it. A blind man could locate it.

tyger, if someone were to try and convince you that there was an elephant in your basement even though you were unable to see said elephant in your basement, would you accept, on this persons word alone, that there was an elephant in your basement? Put another way, if there was an elephant in your basement, would you be able to see it? Would you believe that there was an elephant in your basement unless you saw it? Or would you accept that it was there based on faith alone? And what if the person who was trying to convince you that there was an elephant in your basement was a known pathological liar who would benefit greatly, politically and financially, if you were to blindly accept his insane, physically impossible elephant in your basement story?

Think tyger. If there were millions and millions of pounds of crushed bone and tens of millions of teeth buried in your local football field, how hard would it be to locate and prove its existence? You would know exactly what you’re looking for and you would know exactly where to look, and you had at your disposal all the time, money and modern tools and technology. How hard would it be to prove?

tyger, can you locate / prove the existence of just one single pound of bone fragments at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka?

Can you show us one pound of bone fragments, on a scale, dug from a grave at Belzec, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, irrefutably documented?

One more question tyger: You don’t still believe that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction, do you?

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 2 months ago (Wed Dec 09, 2009 4:13 pm)

tyger, do you "deny" that aliens are abducting humans and using them for breeding a new hybrid race of beings that will take over our planet?


LOL, if they were I am sure they would be highly benevolent towards the aborigines.
And lets face it, they could hardly doing a worse job of running the place than the current mob.

In anycase I think you would probably find a pound of bone fragments at Sobibor. The person who you stood up at Sobibor (he is still very upset about it BTW) has taken photographs of it. Quite why or how they got there or how many people or indeed what species they might represent is still open in my mind

I am sure you would find human cremains at Chelmno also, archaeologists appear to have found something consistent with cremation tags.

I will concede I dont think there is anything at all at Treblinka II. Belzec, I am not sure, there was at least a surface scattering of bone fragments IIRC.

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby AHolland » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Dec 11, 2009 7:14 am)

tyger wrote:The argumentum ad ignorantiam [fallacy] is committed whenever it is argued that a proposition is true simply on the basis that it has not been proven false, or that it is false because it has not been proven true.[...] A qualification should be made at this point. In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of proof of its occurrence despite searching, as positive evidence towards its non-occurrence. (Copi 1953)

Is that OK?


In this line of thought denying the holocaust using the argument 'there is no evidence' (a statement which is highly refutable) is also an argumentum ad ignorantiam. Fact is that the majority of people do believe the Holocaust did take place. There are many more texts in which the holocaust is acknowledged than there are texts in which it is denied (I do not take this as proof of the existence of the Holocaust, but as proof for the statement existence is the majority belief). If you want to prove the majority wrong you will have to PROVE them wrong in order to convince them. This is what I meant with my question why attention is not focused on proving that the remains are something else than human.

This situation is different form the assertion that aliens exist or abduct people or whatever, because this is only a minority belief. If you believe that aliens exist the argument that 'it has never been proved that they do not exist' does not suffice.

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Re: Muehlenkamp and Mermelstein

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:34 pm)

AHolland:

In this line of thought denying the holocaust using the argument 'there is no evidence' (a statement which is highly refutable)



"There is no evidence" is "highly refutable" huh AHolland?


Let's just start with Sobibor and Treblinka.

Can you locate / prove the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder at Sobibor or Treblinka?

Can you provide the name of just one jew - with proof, who died in a diesel exhaust gas chamber at Sobibor or Treblinka?


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