RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

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Kiwichap
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Re: RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:45 pm)

You didn't say that nathan. The extended caption to the photo said that.

When viewed at high-resolution, prisoners can be seen on roll-call.

See the first post in this thread.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Re: RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

Postby Pappy Yokum » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Dec 18, 2009 10:56 pm)

Coke is likely to have been in much shorter supply later in the year; but we are a long speculative distance from a solid fact.


Likely, as everything was in short supply. However, there probably was some supply of coke, as the ovens of Krema V continued to be used for normal cremation operations right up until the camp was evacuated in January 1945.[/quote]

Mattogno writes this concerning the Birkenau crematoria in 1944:
"At Birkenau, such a practice was even more necessary because of the scarcity
of coke.
As I have pointed out in Part One of this study, this problem had
caused the camp authorities to supply the crematoria with fire-wood,
and for
that reason the Kommando 61-B Holzablader (wood unloaders) was formed." (emphasis added.)
Page 76, AUSCHWITZ: Open Air Incinerations.

According to Mattogno, wood as well as coke was used in the crematories. More often in 1944 it was wood instead of coke because there was no coke available.
Mattogno also maintains in the spring of 1944, the crematories where shut for repair and during this time cremations were done on outdoor pyres.
He also notes that in some of the air photos smoke coming from crematory chimneys is visible, but not in the August 23rd photo. He concludes from this that they are inactive. See Page 63.

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Re: RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:28 pm)

Pappy Yokum wrote:According to Mattogno, wood as well as coke was used in the crematories. More often in 1944 it was wood instead of coke because there was no coke available.


I could not find the statement by Mattogno that wood was more used than coke in 1944. I don't know if such a claim is really possible, as the coke records are far from complete (especially for 1944). As the wood use began in 1943, it probably was an on again-off again measure, depending on the immediate supply of coke available.

On the smoke from chimneys, this point is debated between Rudolf and Mattogno, as with Van Pelt and Pressac. Its highly ironic, IMO.

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Re: RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

Postby Pappy Yokum » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:53 am)

Wahrheit wrote:
Pappy Yokum wrote:According to Mattogno, wood as well as coke was used in the crematories. More often in 1944 it was wood instead of coke because there was no coke available.


I could not find the statement by Mattogno that wood was more used than coke in 1944. I don't know if such a claim is really possible, as the coke records are far from complete (especially for 1944). As the wood use began in 1943, it probably was an on again-off again measure, depending on the immediate supply of coke available.

On the smoke from chimneys, this point is debated between Rudolf and Mattogno, as with Van Pelt and Pressac. Its highly ironic, IMO.


I don't see the irony. If photos show that they smoke, then they smoke. I can see that they would given they were being run on wood instead of coke.

It is known that the series of documents for the “Arbeitseinsatz” (labor deployment)
for the men’s camp at Birkenau – partly preserved – mentions from
July 29, 1944, onwards among the personnel of the crematoria a “Kommando
61B” constituted by 30 “Holzablader (wood unloaders) Krematorium IV.”190
From August 5, 1944, onwards “Kommando 61B” operated at crematoria II
and III (“Holzablader Krem. I. u. II.”), the wood was therefore unloaded also
near crematoria II and III, and not only near crematorium V where the alleged
mass cremation trenches were located. Thus, the wood was primarily intended
for the crematoria. Actually, as early as September of 1943 the crematoria
were also being to run on wood. (Mattogno Page 52)


Perhaps it is a misinterpretation on my part, but the impression I get is wood became the more common fuel for the crematories in 1944 from what Mattogno writes. It only seems logical to me if coke was becoming scarce wood would fill the need instead.

Does it matter whether it was more coke than wood or more wood than coke? Mattogno says the records are incomplete. I read Pressac's book. He published records of coke deliveries, but the records ended in October 1943. Are there records of coke being delivered to the crematoria after that?

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Re: RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

Postby nathan » 1 decade 1 month ago (Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:57 am)

Irony might lie in the possibility of using the same argument on both sides. Smoke-producing chimneys would give some basis to eyewitness statements. But habitually smoke-producing chimneys would indicate that the crematoria were not working on the 23rd.

Irony of a Gibbonian sort might be suspected of Pressac when he deals with the wartime blindness of the Allies. It it is never entirely clear where this puzzling individual was coming from.

"historians have been extraordinarily unlucky that the reconnaissance aircraft flew over Auschwitz-Birkenau precisely on those days when nothing was happening".

- Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers. (Beate Klarsfeld Foundation, New York 1989 , pg. 253)


It evokes that famous passage:

During the age of Christ, of his apostles, and of their first disciples, the doctrine which they preached was confirmed by innumerable prodigies. The lame walked, the blind saw, the sick were healed, the dead were raised, daemons were expelled, and the laws of Nature were frequently suspended for the benefit of the church. But the sages of Greece and Rome turned aside from the awful spectacle, and, pursuing the ordinary occupations of life and study, appeared unconscious of any alterations in the moral or physical government of the world.

-Decline and Fall, vol 1 ch 15

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Re: RAF's wartime reconnaissance photos go online in new archive

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 month ago (Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:34 pm)

Pappy Yokum wrote:I don't see the irony. If photos show that they smoke, then they smoke. I can see that they would given they were being run on wood instead of coke.


It's ironic because one side of the 'chimney-smoke' equation has Mattogno and Van Pelt who argue that the chimneys should have smoked, while Rudolf and Pressac argue that they should not have (perhaps beyond start up). Thus, the leading Orthodox and Revisionist researchers for the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp are split on the issue.


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