Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

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Ilikerealhistory
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Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 11 months ago (Sat Nov 28, 2009 11:51 pm)

From this story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8382457.stm


Denis Avey (91), a British soldier, remembers that he repeatedly smuggled himself into Auschwitz so he could tell others the truth. :roll:

Why would they put British prisoners in Auschwitz?

"It was pretty ghastly at night, you got this terrible stench," he says.

He talked to Jewish prisoners but says they rarely spoke of their previous life, instead they were focused on the hell they were living and the work they were forced to do in factories outside the camp.


He talked to jewish prisoners who were forced to work, but he doesn't mention anything about him being forced to work outside the camp. Seems strange that he trades places with a Jew, by putting on his dirty stripped uniform, but doesn't have to do work like the other Jews. He also doesn't mention that it stunk during the day. Why only at night? Is that when the Jews came back to the camp from the work assignment?

"They very seldom talk about their civil life. They only talked about the situation, the punishments they were getting, the work they were made to do."


This is believable. I have never met a Jew who didn't endlessly complain about everything that has ever happened to them.

He also witnessed the brutality meted out to the prisoners, saying people were shot daily. He was determined to help, especially when he met Jewish prisoner Ernst Lobethall.

Mr Lobethall told him he had a sister Susana who had escaped to England as a child, on the eve of war. Back in his own camp, Mr Avey contacted her via a coded letter to his mother.

He arranged for cigarettes, chocolate and a letter from Susana to be sent to him and smuggled them to his friend. Cigarettes were more valuable than gold in the camp and he hoped he would be able to trade them for favours to ease his plight - and he was right.

Mr Lobethall traded two packs of Players cigarettes in return for getting his shoes resoled. It helped save his life when thousands perished or were murdered on the notorious death marches out of the camps in winter in 1945.

Mr Avey briefly met Susana Lobethall in 1945, ...At the time both of them thought Ernst was dead. He'd actually survived, thanks - in part - to the smuggled cigarettes.


Cigarettes more valuable than gold? Wouldn't the Germans notice cigarette smoke? Who did he trade the cigarettes to to get his shoes repaired, another jew? Where did the jew get the material to repair shoes?

And another person who survived the Holocaust(R) [sic] What an oxymoron.

He admits some may find it hard to believe and acknowledges it was "foolhardy".


Yes, but only the intelligent ones.

It's another Herman Rosenblat

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby Mojo » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 9:25 am)

Were the British even anywhere near Auschwitz?

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:37 am)

well, look on the bright side, at least he's not Jewish and we can update our paradigm beyond jewish liewitnesses.

There was a British POW camp near Monowitz.
A number of these POWs have subsequently made some kind of claims along Avery's lines. Starting with Charles Coward who committed perjury at Nuremberg and Frankfurt and eventually ended up claiming to have smuggled some hundreds of Jews from the gas chambers and earning himself a righteous gentile award.

Spectator in Hell book describes another POW's claims, I dont believe he claims to have entered Birkenau but instead to have been sneaking around at night when the Sonderkommando uprising blew up a shower block.

there may be others.

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby Pappy Yokum » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:45 am)

There were prisoners of war housed at the Monowitz camp a few kilometers away Auschwitz. There was "a significant number of British POWs" employed at the Buna factory there [Butz, Hoax of the 20th Century, pg 70]. All of this talk of smuggling is nonsense. Auschwitz had a post office for prisoners and the Nazis encouraged packages of food and other things be sent to prisoners by relatives. Martin Gilbert relates a story in his book AUSCHWITZ AND THE ALLIES [pg 205-206] about a hunt for a deported relative was done by a Jew by sending packages with missing relative's name on them to several labor camps until the relative responded with a letter acknowledging he received the package.

Yitzak Gruenbaum's son, Eliezer had been deported from Warsaw and Yitzak requested the Jewish Agency try to find him. Gruenbaum telegraphed Gerhart Riegner in Geneva with the request in spring 1944. To find Eliezer, Reigner sent ten Red Cross packages with Eliezer's name on them to ten different camps. Confirmation of the delivery of one of the packages to Eliezer came back to Geneva from a camp named Jawischowitz in Upper Silesia. In fact, the post card from Eliezer took less than a week from the day it was mailed to reach Switzerland. Eliezer stated in the post card he had received three Red Cross packages.
It is not clear from Gilbert's text whether the three packages were from the original ten sent by Reigner, or whether more packages were sent after Eliezer was found. If the three were from the original ten, that would indicate at least two of the three were forwarded to him with all that implies.

There was a black market inside the Nazi camps. All sorts of things were traded beyond what was available to prisoners for purchase with official camp currency used to pay inmates for their labor. Primo Levi, a chemist who worked in a lab at Monowitz, wrote in his memoir he took the job in order to steal stuff from the lab to trade with other prisoners. This may be true, but it is also self-serving to excuse his working as a chemist for the Nazis away by saying he only did it to gain access to lab supplies for black market trade.

In any case, there was a black market at the camps, just like we used to trade lunch items in the cafeteria at grammar school. The Jews in these camps were working in all sorts of industries. That people there were trading services - like repairing shoes for cigarettes - is not a surprise. To claim cigarettes saved someone's life is a bit of a stretch and is typical of the self-serving melodrama that surrounds stories of working for the Nazis.

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:58 am)

thank you Pappy Yokum for your interesting insight into camp black markets

None of this should distract us from the fact that Dennis Avery's tale or much of it, is pure fantasy.

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby Pappy Yokum » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 12:35 pm)

jnovitz wrote:thank you Pappy Yokum for your interesting insight into camp black markets

None of this should distract us from the fact that Dennis Avery's tale or much of it, is pure fantasy.


I put it up there with extra-terrestrial abduction stories.

I particularly like this bit:
When millions would have done anything to get out, one remarkable British soldier smuggled himself into Auschwitz to witness the horror so he could tell others the truth.

Denis Avey is a remarkable man by any measure. A courageous and determined soldier in World War II, he was captured by the Germans and imprisoned in a camp connected to the Germans' largest concentration camp, Auschwitz.

But his actions while in the camp - which he has never spoken about until now - are truly extraordinary. When millions would have done anything to get out, Mr Avey repeatedly smuggled himself into the camp.


Millions wanted to get out? How big a camp do they think Auschwitz was? The other laugh is he "smuggled himself into Auschwitz to witness the horror so he could tell others the truth." But, he waited 65 years to relate that "truth." What was he waiting for if his motive was to bear witness, yet he has kept it to himself until now?

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 1:20 pm)

Pappy Yokum wrote:
That people there were trading services - like repairing shoes for cigarettes - is not a surprise. To claim cigarettes saved someone's life is a bit of a stretch and is typical of the self-serving melodrama that surrounds stories of working for the Nazis.



I know they probably did some trading of cigarettes along with other items for different services, and they probably also had a brothel inside the camp, but I don't believe they had to "smuggle" cigarettes into the camp, nor did it save anyones life.

Cigarettes have been used as barter and currency in US prisons for a long time. Probably since cigarettes were invented.

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby MrNobody » 9 years 11 months ago (Sun Nov 29, 2009 6:14 pm)

There was even an "Aussie Digger" at Auschwitz by the name of Donald Watt, he was a "Stoker" on the Crematoria.........ahahaha APRIL FOOLS the jokes on you he made it all up, but not before making a small fortune from selling his "Memoir".
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Re: Another person suddenly remembers he was in Auschwitz

Postby Vortigern » 8 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 31, 2011 5:43 am)

Avey's book has now been published. It will be possible to have a much more informed debate regarding his claims from reading the book rather than from interviews he has given to journlists or other online reports.


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