Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

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Wahrheit
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Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:20 am)

Going off of Bradley Smith's popular challenge, I was wondering if any revisionist here is able to provide, with proof, the name of a single person who was deloused and shipped off the the occupied Soviet territories (or some other resettlement area) from 'transit camp' Treblinka?

This is a very crucial question for revisionists to answer. As leading researcher Carlo Mattogno maintains:

Since Treblinka was much too small to be able to accommodate the large number of Jews deported there at the same time, the transit camp thesis is, in fact, the single plausible alternative to the conventional picture of the extermination camp. Tertium non datur - no third possibility is given.
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/2.html


Unfortunately, Mattogno is not able to meet this challenge.

Greg Gerdes similarly maintains from his NAFCASH website:

THE TRUTH – Treblinka was a transit camp and the so called gas chambers were, in reality, DELOUSING FACILITIES designed to protect the health and prolong the lives of the shameless liars who fraudulently claimed to be the victims of a genocidal extermination program. Remember, there are only two options: extermination center (for those who believe in magic) or transit camp (for those who believe in the scientific method). There is no third option and only one truth.
http://nafcash.com/


Yet no names are given.

I'd even be willing to accept evidence of transports travelling from Treblinka to a specified resettlement area (no need for specific names). Surely this challenge is much easier than the similar one that Bradley Smith poses to Holocaust traditionalists, as the people in question would be alive (somewhere), and leave a much larger trace than any silent and cremated corpse.

Perhaps some witness testimony of the resettlement? Post-war memoirs of life in the newly established lands?

I'd be interested to see what everyone has to offer.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:31 pm)

"...Letters and postcards that arrived in the Warsaw ghetto from Jews who, by all accounts, had been deported to Treblinka, indicate that the camp was a transit center from where Jews were resettled in the occupied Soviet territories. These messages, which arrived from settlements and camps in Belarus (Byelorussia), Ukraine, and even Russia proper (near Smolensk), were written by Jews who had been deported in 1942. Some letters and cards had been sent by mail and some had arrived through the underground. Many mentioned that the senders were working hard, but confirmed that they (and often their children) were being fed.

Completely contrary to its supposed character as a top secret extermination center, Treblinka was neither secret nor even closely guarded, as both former inmates and officials have confirmed. "Secrecy? Good heavens, there was no secrecy about Treblinka," Jewish prisoner Richard Glazer later testified. "All the Poles between there and Warsaw must have known about it, and lived off the proceeds. All the peasants came to barter, the Warsaw whores did business with the Ukrainians -- it was a circus for all of them." Polish farmers worked the fields that directly adjoined the camp. "And many others," said Jewish survivor Berek Rojzman, "came to the fence to barter, mostly with the Ukrainians, but with us too." (note 48)..."


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 12:55 pm)

"Survivor" Kalman Teigman's map shows a "disinfection tank" at Treblinka, but no graves.

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic ... manmap.jpg


Wahrheit:

Greg Gerdes similarly maintains from his NAFCASH website...



Here's something else that is maintained on the site:

Every alleged German “death camp” is best understood when looked at as a holocaust within the holocaust. No matter what anyone thinks about the holocaust per se, one thing is eminently clear - the Treblinka holocaust didn’t happen. To believe that the Germans could “obliterate” all evidence of the murder of 870,000 jews requires incredible gullibility and a lack of intelligence, logic and critical thinking skills. It requires a belief in magic and a rejection of criminology, archeology and forensic science. IF there was a Treblinka holocaust, then there are huge mass graves filled with millions of pounds of evidence to prove it.



And something else:


According to the orthodox version of the holocaust, at Treblinka, the Germans allegedly murdered and buried, then dug up, burned and crushed the bones, and then reburied all the remains of the 870,000 jews into the same “huge mass graves;” thus, they allegedly “obliterated all evidence of their crime.” If you’re unfamiliar with the controversies surrounding this “judicially proven fact,” then it’s imperative that before you read any further, you understand the forensic argumentation presented in this link HERE:

“This is the biggest cemetery of Polish Jewry… There are 870,000 Jews buried in the enormous ditches… Within this area initially, the Jews were buried in enormous pits… Later on, a sort of grill from railroad tracks was built. The corpses were removed and this area served for burning the corpses… Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka - all three of them were utterly eradicated… Both Treblinka and the other camps, once they had fulfilled their task of extermination, were obliterated… Nothing remains - nothing.”

Nothing remains? Who in their right mind could believe that a perfect crime could be committed while murdering 870,000 people? Everyone knows that at every crime scene - EVIDENCE IS LEFT BEHIND: “Cremated remains weigh between three and nine pounds.” In order to believe the orthodox Treblinka holocaust legend, you must believe this: The Germans, by putting a layer of soil over millions of pounds of bone fragments, tens of millions of teeth and tens of thousands of bullets and shell casings somehow, magically - “utterly eradicated” all evidence of their crime!

Utterly eradicated? How about utter nonsense? Why would the Germans go through all that work, knowing full well there would still be millions of pounds of evidence left behind, then put all that incriminating evidence right back into the very graves that they allegedly had just dug all those bodies out of? It’s understandable when a toddler believes that he’s made himself invisible while playing peek-a-boo by covering his eyes, but how do you explain the insanity of the holocaust “scholars” who believe that a layer of soil can make millions of pounds of evidence magically disappear?

So why do the true believers of holocaust orthodoxy continue believing in the absurd magically disappearing jew “theory” even after it’s been proven to be a fraudulent cognitive illusion? Are they truly insane, or is it because they’re just cowards who can’t handle the shrieks of “denier” and anti-Semite hurled at anyone who dares to question this nonsensical dogma? Remember, in virtually every country of Europe, as well as in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and others, you can literally be thrown in prison for refusing to believe the official lies of the alleged “pure extermination centers.” Of course, the feckless cowards who don’t want to know the truth and who lack the character to speak the truth can go about unmolested by the high priests of holocaust orthodoxy in their “free democracies;” But woe to the heretic who dares to ask: So just where exactly are all these alleged “huge mass graves” filled with millions of pounds of bone fragments anyway?

To put this UTTERLY ILLOGICAL FRAUD in perspective, it’s like someone claiming that he could murder every single man, woman and child in Montana and magically not leave a single trace of his crime! Do you see how incredibly easy a little common sense, logic and skeptical inquiry exposes the ludicrous fraud of this classic example of the big-lie technique? Nothing in the world could be easier to prove than the alleged Treblinka holocaust - IF this legend is true. If all the time, money and effort that’s gone into the harassing, arresting, fining and imprisoning of the holocaust heretics went into locating the alleged huge mass graves of Treblinka, then this issue would have been settled years ago. Why do you think the jews would rather have people thrown in prison for not believing their nonsensical manufactured history than actually locating the alleged huge mass graves? Why do you think they incessantly lie about the Treblinka holocaust being a proven historical fact, shriek holocaust denier at and refuse to debate anyone with the intelligence and courage to call them on this ridiculous tall-tale? The answer is, of course, because there was no Treblinka holocaust. (This is a classic example of what happens when pseudo-intellectuals become so invested in an idea; after a while, even honest mistakes have to be sustained by ignoring and eventually falsifying the facts.)



And something else:

If it couldn’t have happened - as alleged, then it didn’t happen - as alleged.

(Just what part of physically impossible do you not understand?)



And something else:


NO GRAVES = NO TREBLINKA HOLOCAUST
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:06 pm)

Wahrheit

Surely this challenge is much easier than the similar one that Bradley Smith poses to Holocaust traditionalists, as the people in question would be alive (somewhere), and leave a much larger trace than any silent and cremated corpse.



What utter nonsense.

We're not talking about "any any silent and cremated corpse," and you know it.

We're talking about the remains of an alleged 870,000 murdered jooos, allegedly buried in a very small, precisely known location.

And as to your allegation that corpses were cremated at Treblinka:

Can you provide the name, with proof, of a single jew who was cremated at Treblinka?

Can you show us one single pound of cremated "ashes?"


Also, if you want to play this silly game, then let's back up even further.

Let's see the list of names of all the people you believe were shiped to Treblinka.


Wahrheit

as the people in question would be alive (somewhere)



What people?


A list of names please.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:21 pm)

the transit camp thesis is, in fact, the single plausible alternative to the conventional picture of the extermination camp



Wahrheit, if Kalman Teigman really was transported to Treblinka like he says he was, then what does the fact the wasn't murdered there tell you?

Is that evidence that Treblinka was a "pure extermination center?"

Or

Is it evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:24 pm)

Gerdes

Remember, there are only two options: extermination center (for those who believe in magic) or transit camp (for those who believe in the scientific method). There is no third option and only one truth.



Mattogno

The transit camp thesis is, in fact, the single plausible alternative to the conventional picture of the extermination camp. Tertium non datur - no third possibility is given.



Do you have a third option / possibility Wahrheit?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 1:42 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:Wahrheit

Surely this challenge is much easier than the similar one that Bradley Smith poses to Holocaust traditionalists, as the people in question would be alive (somewhere), and leave a much larger trace than any silent and cremated corpse.



What utter nonsense.

We're not talking about "any any silent and cremated corpse," and you know it.

We're talking about the remains of an alleged 870,000 murdered jooos, allegedly buried in a very small, precisely known location.


No, we're not. Bradley Smith is focused on Auschwitz-Birkenau (“Can you provide, with proof, the name on one person killed in a gas chamber at Auschwitz?”). Thus, the evidence for the victim only amount to the documentation left until their (alleged) death. In turn, for the resettlement thesis (which I have focused on Treblinka), those deportees would continue to leave a trail of evidence for many years beyond the war.


Can you provide the name, with proof, of a single jew who was cremated at Treblinka?

Can you show us one single pound of cremated "ashes?"


Also, if you want to play this silly game, then let's back up even further.

Let's see the list of names of all the people you believe were shiped to Treblinka.


Greg Gerdes, please focus on the original topic (proof of a person/transport sent from Treblinka on to a resettlement area). If you cannot answer the challenge, thats fine, but please do not spam up the thread with material you have posted elsewhere.

We are looking for proof of resettlement through the Treblinka transit camp.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:18 pm)

I am focusing on the original topic.

And calling my questions that you don't have an answer to "spam" is an interesting evasive technique.

1 - If you can't come up with a list of people who were sent to Treblinka, then why are you asking others to tell you were they went?


2 - Do you have a list of names of all the people you believe were shiped to Treblinka?


3 - Wahrheit, if Kalman Teigman really was transported to Treblinka like he says he was, then what does the fact the wasn't murdered there tell you?

Is that evidence that Treblinka was a "pure extermination center?"

Or

Is it evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp?


*

Gerdes

Remember, there are only two options: extermination center (for those who believe in magic) or transit camp (for those who believe in the scientific method). There is no third option and only one truth.


Mattogno

The transit camp thesis is, in fact, the single plausible alternative to the conventional picture of the extermination camp. Tertium non datur - no third possibility is given.


4 - Do you have a third option / possibility Wahrheit?



Wahrheit


We are looking for proof of resettlement through the Treblinka transit camp.




5 - So you're saying that the fact that not one grave that contanis so much as 1 / 100,000 of 1 % of the alleged mass murder has ever been located / proven to exist is not proof?


6 - What part of - No graves = no Treblinka holocaust - do you not understand Wahrheit?


Numerous jooos say they were transported to Treblinka. But they were NOT killed.

7 - Does that support the "extermination" thesis Wahrheit, or the transit camp thesis?

Wahrheit, in some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.


There was no Treblinka holocaust.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:40 pm)

Why didn't you comment on this Wahrheit?


"...Letters and postcards that arrived in the Warsaw ghetto from Jews who, by all accounts, had been deported to Treblinka, indicate that the camp was a transit center from where Jews were resettled in the occupied Soviet territories. These messages, which arrived from settlements and camps in Belarus (Byelorussia), Ukraine, and even Russia proper (near Smolensk), were written by Jews who had been deported in 1942. Some letters and cards had been sent by mail and some had arrived through the underground. Many mentioned that the senders were working hard, but confirmed that they (and often their children) were being fed.

Completely contrary to its supposed character as a top secret extermination center, Treblinka was neither secret nor even closely guarded, as both former inmates and officials have confirmed. "Secrecy? Good heavens, there was no secrecy about Treblinka," Jewish prisoner Richard Glazer later testified. "All the Poles between there and Warsaw must have known about it, and lived off the proceeds. All the peasants came to barter, the Warsaw whores did business with the Ukrainians -- it was a circus for all of them." Polish farmers worked the fields that directly adjoined the camp. "And many others," said Jewish survivor Berek Rojzman, "came to the fence to barter, mostly with the Ukrainians, but with us too." (note 48)..."


http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p133_Allen.html


Wahrheit, if Richard Glazer and Berek Rojzman really were transported to Treblinka like they say they were, then what does the fact that they weren't murdered there tell you?

Is that evidence that Treblinka was a "pure extermination center?"

Or

Is it evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:55 pm)

http://www.deathcamps.org/treblinka/pic ... manmap.jpg


Wahrheit, do you have any idea why the jooos would be disinfected right before they were sent to the "gas chamber?"


Is disinfection consistant with the transit camp thesis or the extermination camp thesis?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:15 pm)

Greg Gerdes wrote:I am focusing on the original topic.

And calling my questions that you don't have an answer to "spam" is an interesting evasive technique.


No, you are not. You are doging my challenge, something that is forbidden in this forum's rules/guidelines. As you have managed to post no less than 8 posts within three hours, all of which fail to provide proof of a Treblinka-resettled Jew, IMO, it is much like the numerous offers I receive in my inbox to help a rich African billionaire, who will in turn provide me a large some of money.

This thread is NOT about gas-chambers, cremation pits, carbon monoxide, etc....it is about the resettlement of the Jewish civilians through transit camp Treblinka, and the necessity for positive proof.

Nothing else is relevant to this thread.

2 - Do you have a list of names of all the people you believe were shiped to Treblinka?


No, I do not. I suggest that if you wish to find a deported Jew from transit camp Treblinka, you must do the necessary research. I'm asking if anyone is already known. So far, none have been shown.

Why didn't you comment on this Wahrheit?


Because it's not proof of anything. You must show that the Jews who presumably wrote the letters and postcards were deported into the East from Treblinka. There is no doubt that tens of thousands of Jews were deported to the East (Riga, Minsk, etc), but if you want to tie Treblinka into the process, you must have proof.

Anyway, at least this quote from Weber and Allen's article is actually thread-relevant, though it is only circumstantial evidence at best, and hardly what one could call proof. They cite secondary sources for this point, and fail to quote from the relevant letters and postcards. Also, how does Treblinka tie into this point? Where is the proof that Treblinka was the center from which the Jews were shipped eastwards?

THAT is what we are after.

Wahrheit, if Richard Glazer and Berek Rojzman really were transported to Treblinka like they say they were, then what does the fact that they weren't murdered there tell you?

Is that evidence that Treblinka was a "pure extermination center?"

Or

Is it evidence that Treblinka was a transit camp?


As neither Glazer and Rojzman were resettled anywhere, I fail to see the relevance. If anything, as the two only escaped the camp through a revolt, it suggests the former.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:36 pm)

Wahrheit

This thread is NOT about gas-chambers, cremation pits, carbon monoxide, etc....it is about the resettlement of the Jewish civilians through transit camp Treblinka, and the necessity for positive proof. Nothing else is relevant to this thread
.

Yes it is. What you're trying to do is play make believe, just like your HC friends, and create an argument in a vacuum so you can avoid answering any real / hard questions. (Dodging my questions is against forum policy.)


Wahrheit:

as the two only escaped the camp through a revolt



1 - Can you prove that they "escaped" and were not transfered somewhere to the east?

2 - Can you prove that there was a revolt?


Wahrheit:

the people in question would be alive (somewhere), and leave a much larger trace than any silent and cremated corpse
.


3 - How many people? You're statement has to be backed up with some facts.

4 - How many jooos are you talking about?

The evidence shows that Treblinka was a transit camp. But that's as far as it goes. The evidence doesn't show that every jooo who passed by the Treblinka train station was shuttled over to the transit camp.


Q - Do you have a list of names of all the people you believe were shiped to Treblinka?

Wahrheit's answer: No, I do not.

5 - How many jooos were transfered through the Treblinka train station?

6 - How many jooos passed through the Treblinka transit camp?


Wahrheit:

There is no doubt that tens of thousands of Jews were deported to the East (Riga, Minsk, etc), but if you want to tie Treblinka into the process, you must have proof.


Nonsense. You are only able to maintain this fiction by refusing to answer my questions.

7 - If of thousands of Jews were deported to the East (Riga, Minsk, etc), then is that evidence that "The Final Solution" was an emigration policy, or an extermination policy?


Gerdes

Remember, there are only two options: extermination center (for those who believe in magic) or transit camp (for those who believe in the scientific method). There is no third option and only one truth.


Mattogno

The transit camp thesis is, in fact, the single plausible alternative to the conventional picture of the extermination camp. Tertium non datur - no third possibility is given.


8 - Do you have a third option / possibility Wahrheit?

9 - What part of - No graves = no Treblinka holocaust - do you not understand Wahrheit?


Numerous jooos say they were transported to Treblinka. But they were NOT killed.

10 - Does that support the "extermination" thesis Wahrheit, or the transit camp thesis?

Wahrheit, in some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.


There was no Treblinka holocaust.


11- Are you're saying that the fact that not one grave that contanis so much as 1 / 100,000 of 1 % of the alleged mass murder has ever been located / proven to exist is not proof?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:47 pm)

12 - Wahrheit, can you provide the name of just one jew, with proof, who was transfered to the Treblinka transit camp?
Last edited by Greg Gerdes on Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:53 pm)

Wahrheit

it is about the resettlement of the Jewish civilians through transit camp Treblinka



jewish "civilians?"


Interesting.


"The whole of Israel throughout the world is uniting to declare an economic and financial war on Germany. The appearance of the Swastika as the symbol of the new Germany has revived the old war symbol of Judas to new life. Fourteen million Jews scattered over the entire world are tight to each other as if one man, in order to declare war against the German persecutors of their fellow believers.

The Jewish wholesaler will quit his house, the banker his stock exchange, the merchant his business, and the beggar his humble hut, in order to join the holy war against Hitler's people.

The war against Germany will be waged by all Jewish communities, conferences, congresses... by every individual Jew. Thereby the war against Germany will ideologically enliven and promote our interests, which require that Germany be wholly destroyed.

The danger for us Jews lies in the whole German people, in Germany as a whole as well as individually. It must be rendered harmless for all time.... In this war we Jews have to participate, and this with all the strength and might we have at our disposal."

*

I wish to confirm, in the most explicit manner, the declarations which I and my colleagues have made during the last month, and especially in the last week, that the Jews stand by Great Britain and will fight on the side of the democracies. Our urgent desire is to give effect to these declarations [against Germany].

We wish to do so in a way entirely consonant with the general scheme of British action, and therefore would place ourselves, in matters big and small, under the coordinating direction of His Majesty's Government. The Jewish Agency is ready to enter into immediate arrangements for utilizing Jewish manpower, technical ability, resources, etc.


Chaim Weizman



13 - Don't you mean - enemy combatant Wahrheit?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Lohengrin » 9 years 11 months ago (Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:49 pm)

Dear Wahrheit,

- Did you notice the latest message of Raul Hilberg? He said that we only know 20% of 'the Holocaust', and specifically that what was happening on the East front is absolutely unknown. I suppose everyone - you included - can agree with that.

- Do you know who 'liberated' Treblinka, etc.? OK, the Soviets.

- Do you know who introduced the horror scenarios and the multi-millions of deaths murdered by 'the fascists'? OK, the Soviets.

- Do you know that Stalin ordered the policy of the scorch earth?

- Do you know that Soviet civilians staying in their villages were stigmatized as 'Enemies of the People' and 'Traitors'?

- Do you know that innumerable villages because of that were deserted by the local people and thousands of houses were abandoned and empty?

- Do you know that Korherr in his Report spoke of "Transportierung von Juden aus den Ostprovinzen nach dem russischen Osten: ............................1 449 692 ?

- Do you know that it were the SOVIETS who two years later 'liberated' these territories and could have seized all of the documents about and all of the Jews dwelling there?

- Do you know that the Soviets held ALL documents which were not congruent with their 'Nazi-mass murder' doctrine behind close doors?

- Do you know that in the decades after the War the Soviets held their borders hermetically closed for Western people, journalists, etc. and even more closed for their own people to go to the West or even have innocent contacts with Westerners?

- Do you know that the AR Camps also were hermetically closed for investigation?

- And Stalin transferred millions of people out of his Western territories to his NEVER disclosed or investigated Goelag Archipelago?

- And the Soviets were until the least unwillingly to let Soviet Jews emigrate to Israel?

- Do you think all of this had some reasons?

Well, I do: This way the Soviets covered up their seizure and liquidation of hundreds of thousands of Jews 'gassed by the 'fascists'.

What else would you do, if you were Stalin? Declare that Hitler wasn't the Devil as you (and Ehrenburg) told the World and re-housed all those jews?
Of course they were not allowed - as nobody was in the former Soviet Union - to write or communicate with the Western countries. Absolute silence was the message!

Probably the 'proof' lies in the numerous kept secret archives in Russia, as the Auschwitz Death Books did. Putin, as a keeper of National Russian Pride and patron of Stalin,will probably be the last to give us the answers.


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