Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

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Greg Gerdes
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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:16 pm)

If you really want to know how dishonest Warhiet is, check this out:

IMO, both sides should provide positive evidence for their positive claims. Therefore, 'exterminationists' should provide positive evidence for gas chambers (as I believe they have), while 'revisionists' should provide positive evidence for transit camps (which they resoundly have not).



Notice how Warhiet uses "gas chambers" and not "mass graves."



Why Warhiet?




Warhiet

the Soviets/Poles did find physical evidence at the Treblinka site



Well then Warhiet, would you please share with us what this "physical evidence at the Treblinka site" was and where exactly it was found?


Warhiet

I am not trying or asking anyone to prove a negative, but am looking for evidence to support the 'revisionist' thesis.



The "thesis" is just as much yours as it is "revisioinists."

You yourself have admitted that there are only two options.

The thesis is a shared thesis - "pure extermination center / magically disappearing jew" or transit camp.

You have chosen the "pure extermination center / magically disappearing jew" side of the thesis

Most others here have chosen the "transit camp" side of the thesis.


Remember what is said on the nafcash.com/ site Warheit (which you have admitted you accept):

Tthere are only two options: extermination center (for those who believe in magic) or transit camp (for those who believe in the scientific method). There is no third option and only one truth.



And just in case Warheit tries to deny it:


11 - Do you have a third option / possibility Wahrheit?

Yes or No?

As I have already stated..no. Much like Mattogno states, it is one or the other.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:41 pm)

And yet more dishonesty from Warhiet


I don't see any admission that I am a 'hoaxster', but a simple statement that those who argue for the existence of gas chambers have actually put out evidence to support their belief. Do you doubt this too? Have you really researched this topic?, Thesaint?



The "existence of gas chambers" at Treblinka?

You know that's a lie.

NOBODY is claiming that there exists at Treblinka "gas chambers."


But it is hoaxers like you who claim that there are "huge mass graves."


Why are you using "gas chambers" rather than "mass graves?"


You know why, and so does everyone here.


Was there a Treblinka holocaust Warheit -

Yes or No?


My tour guide confirmed that the ashes of the 800,000 people who died here were placed in this area and are now hidden underneath the symbolic cemetery and by the grass and tiny flowers which cover the spot. The map in the camp pamphlet does not specify the exact spot where the ashes were buried.



Are there "huge mass graves" filled with the "ashes" of 800 jews under the "grass and tiny flowers" at Treblinka -

Yes or No?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby ginger » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:48 pm)

Wahrheit -

Thanks for your response, to wit -

"Ginger, my point was that historians and 'exterminationist' proponents (those who believe in the existence and employment of homicidal gas chambers at Treblinka) have cited documents, witness testimony, and the on-site investigations by the Poles and Soviets to substantiate their claims/beliefs."

My next project will be to find material on the investigations of the Poles and Soviets. I must confess I don't trust the Soviets.

I did have hopes for Eugene Kulischer's "The Displacement of the Population in Europe", written in 1943, in which he did a careful counting of the Jews deported from the Third Reich. Kulischer said that the Nazis needed the Jews as laborers on the eastern front; why exterminate them on the eastern front?

In 1948 Kulischer wrote "Europe on the Move". In that book he reported that the Nazis used gas chambers and that 5.5 million Jews were exterminated. His source was two sentences from the IMT at Nuremburg, one of which was Eichmann reportedly saying 6 million Jews had been exterminated. He offered nothing else to support his assertion. Very disappointing.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:53 pm)

Here Warheit does it again:


Ginger, my point was that historians and 'exterminationist' proponents (those who believe in the existence and employment of homicidal gas chambers at Treblinka) have cited documents, witness testimony, and the on-site investigations by the Poles and Soviets to substantiate their claims/beliefs.


Did you see the slight of hand Ginger?


Warhiet, can you provide the name of one single person who claims that gas chambers exist at Treblinka -

Yes or No?


Warhiet

I'm reluctant to go much further into this than I already have, as I have no doubt that the thread will lose all control if we open the gates to the entire Treblinka subject.



What you're afraid of is answering simple questions.

And you've already lost control.

That is why you've been dishonestly using the term "gas chambers" rather than "mass graves."


So Warheit is admitting that this whole rodoh-like let's pretend thread cannot stand if the whole picture is looked at.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby grenadier » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:56 pm)

ginger
My next project will be to find material on the investigations of the Poles and Soviets. I must confess I don't trust the Soviets.


Ginger, there is a full chapter(chapterIII) in Mattogno's study of Treblinka, which carefully covers these polish and soviet investigations even translating many generous portions of their reports. I hope it helps.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 4:10 pm)

ginger wrote:My next project will be to find material on the investigations of the Poles and Soviets. I must confess I don't trust the Soviets.


Mattogno wrote about them here: http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/t/4.html

There are several other sources available on them available. Good luck in your studies, Ginger.

I did have hopes for Eugene Kulischer's "The Displacement of the Population in Europe", written in 1943, in which he did a careful counting of the Jews deported from the Third Reich. Kulischer said that the Nazis needed the Jews as laborers on the eastern front; why exterminate them on the eastern front?

In 1948 Kulischer wrote "Europe on the Move". In that book he reported that the Nazis used gas chambers and that 5.5 million Jews were exterminated. His source was two sentences from the IMT at Nuremburg, one of which was Eichmann reportedly saying 6 million Jews had been exterminated. He offered nothing else to support his assertion. Very disappointing.


No doubt both of Kulischer's works have major drawbacks, including the almost complete lack of real material that he had to work with. We can't find the hundreds of thousands of Jews allegedly sent off to the eastern front (subject of this thread); we only know what there final recorded destination was (Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec mostly). This problem also exists for the Auschwitz-Birkenau camp. I quoted Graf's recognition that 'revisionists' need to tackle the issue of the fate of Europe's missing Jews.

As an outsider, Kulischer could not have known what really was going on in 1943, and as you say, his 1948 work is problematic (although confusion reigned in the reporting of exterminations).

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Mojo » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:06 pm)

If there were any outgoing train records, does anyone think for a second that the poles, soviets or jews would make them available? It's not like these 3 parties have been forthright in releasing documents or providing honest information in the past.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby StuDewan » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:40 pm)

I tried to find some details about Treblinka as a transit camp like: where did the trains get cleaned/deloused?... where did the prisoners board back the trains?... at the same platform where they arrived?... I saw only one map (KUDLIK, LAKS, PLATKIEWICZ) showing a second railway...


Stu

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:50 pm)

Mojo wrote:If there were any outgoing train records, does anyone think for a second that the poles, soviets or jews would make them available? It's not like these 3 parties have been forthright in releasing documents or providing honest information in the past.


And the conspiracy grows...

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 6:59 pm)

StuDewan wrote:I tried to find some details about Treblinka as a transit camp like: where did the trains get cleaned/deloused?... where did the prisoners board back the trains?... at the same platform where they arrived?... I saw only one map (KUDLIK, LAKS, PLATKIEWICZ) showing a second railway...


Stu


Stu, I also have found it hard to picture (according to several maps of the camp) just how it would have worked as a transit camp. Also, how much sense would it make to delouse Jews far away from their eventual destination? In other words, why not delouse them at their planned resettlement site/work site/etc.? Surely this is my own personal incredulity, but this does not appear ripe for a "transit camp" setup.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:12 pm)

Another point worth mentioning is that Samuel Crowell has argued that delousing huts and stations for German labor programs in the East were common. See here: http://www.codoh.com/incon/inconshrcrit.html

As such, if the Jews were being deported to from Treblinka to a resettlement/work site, as some allege, why delouse them in Poland when there are delousing facilities across the occupied territories, in close proximity to their final destination?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:24 pm)

Look at Warhiet run from the simplest of questions.

What's wrong Warhiet - are the questions too hard for you?


Warheit, I noticed that you just posted a map that shows 6 "huge mass graves."


Now tell us Warheit, how many jews, in total, are buried in these alleged "huge mass graves?"


And tell us Warheit, how many jews, are buried in each on e of these alleged "huge mass graves?"


Now watch the coward run from this one.


This is so fun to watch.

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:27 pm)

Warheit

Also, you can find my answer to most of your questions further up in this thread. Please cease your spamming efforts and actually try to engage in serious debate for a change.



To "most" of my questions?

Why not all?

How about just one Warheit?

What are you so afraid of?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:29 pm)

Warhiet has made his claim for the "magically disappearing jew" theory explicit:

#1:

If no proof/evidence can be shown of their transit camp functionality, the evidence for extermination, however minor or debateable, wins out.



#2:

if no transit camp evidence/proof can be shown, there must be a recognition that all the evidence for homicidal gassings (no matter how flimsy) wins out.



And this is what he says about providing proof:


When someone makes an allegation, they must provide positive proof for that claim.



Well then Warhiet,

Can you locate / prove the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka -

Yes or No?

Can you provide the name of just one jew - with proof, who died in a diesel exhaust gas chamber at Treblinka -

Yes or No?

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Re: Transit Camp Treblinka Challenge: One Person, with Proof

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 12:35 pm)

Wahrheit, let me remind you that there is no dodging on CODOH.

Wahrheit:

...as the two only escaped the camp through a revolt



1 - Can you prove that those jews "escaped" and were not transferred somewhere to the east?

Yes or No?

2 - Can you prove that there was a revolt at Treblinka?

Yes or No?


Wahrheit:

the people in question would be alive (somewhere), and leave a much larger trace than any silent and cremated corpse



3 – How much of a “trace” would a person leave if they were caught up in the Soviets gulag system?

4 – Have you ever read – Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn’s - The Gulag Archipelago?

5 - How many people? You're statement has to be backed up with some facts. How many jooos were transferred through the Treblinka train station?

6 - How many jooos were processed through the Treblinka transit camp?

Wahrheit , numerous jooos say they were transported to Treblinka. But they were NOT killed.

7 - Does that support the "extermination" thesis or the transit camp thesis?

8 - What part of - No graves = no Treblinka holocaust - do you not understand Wahrheit?

9- Are you're saying Wahrheit, that the fact that not one grave that contains so much as 1 / 10,000 of 1 % of the alleged mass murder has ever been located / proven to exist is not proof?

10 - Wahrheit, do you agree or disagree with the following:

In some circumstances it can be safely assumed that if a certain event had occurred, evidence of it could be discovered by qualified investigators. In such circumstances it is perfectly reasonable to take the absence of evidence of its occurrence as proof of its non-occurrence.


11 – Wahrheit, was there a Treblinka holocaust?

Yes or No?


12 - Wahrheit, can you provide the name of just one jew, with proof, who was killed at the Treblinka transit camp?

13 - Wahrheit, do you accept or deny the fact that the Soviets rounded up and sent millions and millions of people, including jooos, to the gulag?

14 - Is dodging questions allowed on the RODOH forum?

15 - Is dodging questions allowed on the CODOH forum?

16 – Are you aware that this is the CODOH forum, and not the RODOH forum?

17 - Why didn't you include use and/or include Sobibor in your "challenge?"


My tour guide confirmed that the ashes of the 800,000 people who died here were placed in this area and are now hidden underneath the symbolic cemetery and by the grass and tiny flowers which cover the spot. The map in the camp pamphlet does not specify the exact spot where the ashes were buried.



18 - Warheit, can you prove that so much as one single pound of "ashes" are buried at Treblinka?

Yes or No?


Warheit:

This is unbelievable, especially when we are discussing a population movement in excess of one million people.


Well, actually in this case it's 800,000, and the claim isn't a movement. The claim is that they are buried.


19 - How many graves are these alleged 800,000 jooos buried in Warheit?

20 - Warheit, can you locate / prove the existence of just one grave that contains the remains of just 1 / 10,000 of 1 % of the alleged mass murder at Treblinka?

Yes or No?


Will Warhiet answer the simple questions?

Or will he cravenly run away like his buddy AHollankamp did?


Now, let's recap some of what Warhiet has claimed / admitted to date:

Warheit admits that he cannot provide us with a list of names of the jews who were trasferred to Treblinka, and the ONLY names that he can come up with are jews who were NOT holocausted at Treblinka.

Why can't he give us the name of one single jew who was holocausted at Treblinka?

Warhiet also admits that Treblinka was either a "pure extermination center" or a transit camp - and that there is no third optioin.

Yet Warhiet cannot locate / prove the existence of one single grave that contains so much as 1 / 10,000 of 1 % of the alleged mass murder.

Warhiet claims that there was a "revolt" at Treblinka, yet he cannot provide the name of one single jew, with proof, who participated in this alleged revolt.

Warheit also admits that Kalman Teigman's map shows a "disinfection tank" at Treblinka, but no graves.


Warheit has offered no proof what so ever for his magically disappearing jew theory, yet he want's us to prove his MDJ theory wrong and he refuses to answer the simplest of questions that he knows will show how dishonest he is and will blow his bogus MDJ theory to shreds.


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