So What Would It Take?

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GurtKerstein
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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby GurtKerstein » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Jan 03, 2010 8:56 pm)

Wahrheit:

I would not find it so surprising,


Sad to see that literally nobody would find it surprising that the Holocaust authorities would deny permission for an independent investigation.

The memorial site has much larger concerns than removing any shred of doubt that a few hundred people


I wonder what those concerns are? Oh yes, maximizing revenues by perpetuating the myth and persecuting the heretics.

as we know what the Soviets and Poles found in the mid 1940s.


I think you are putting too much stock in your Soviet sources... anybody who ever lived or who is familiar with the Soviet Union (it's obvious you are not), would literally laugh at you for taking anything that the Soviet State claims as fact and what the meaning of Sovietzka Pravda is. However even if you are not familiar it should suffice to mention the Katyn frame-up, the fabricated Krema I, the human soap, the Auschwitz experimental village and the 4 million Auschwitz dead number that was claimed for 45 years. But I guess for a true believer like yourself any shred of "evidence" to support your dogma is good enough evidence, no matter the source or quality of evidence.

Krege was supposed to publish


I already discounted Krege, even though it supports my side. If wish to see the same level of intellectual honesty from you.
The Emperor cannot see the cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing. The Emperor holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:43 am)

GurtKerstein wrote:

The memorial site has much larger concerns than removing any shred of doubt that a few hundred people


I wonder what those concerns are? Oh yes, maximizing revenues by perpetuating the myth and persecuting the heretics.


"Maximizing revenues"? Judging by the reviews and pictures of visitors to the Treblinka memorial site, the camp is by NO MEANS basking in financial glory. Rather the opposite. Also, AFAIK, there is no admission fee; only fees for pamphlets and pictures, if desired.

as we know what the Soviets and Poles found in the mid 1940s.


I think you are putting too much stock in your Soviet sources... anybody who ever lived or who is familiar with the Soviet Union (it's obvious you are not), would literally laugh at you for taking anything that the Soviet State claims as fact and what the meaning of Sovietzka Pravda is. However even if you are not familiar it should suffice to mention the Katyn frame-up, the fabricated Krema I, the human soap, the Auschwitz experimental village and the 4 million Auschwitz dead number that was claimed for 45 years. But I guess for a true believer like yourself any shred of "evidence" to support your dogma is good enough evidence, no matter the source or quality of evidence.


Well then Mattogno must be a "true believer" as well, for he presented no problems with the findings of the Soviets and Poles. Indeed, Mattogno has based much of his AR works on the accuracy of said investigations (he suggests they didn't find enough evidence of mass murder).

Krege was supposed to publish


I already discounted Krege, even though it supports my side. If wish to see the same level of intellectual honesty from you.


Krege cannot be considered to support your side, as his research was never brought forward. If anything, his failure to publish his findings (be it in a book or article) is indicative of him finding something that he wished he hadn't. And your reluctance to use a source that was due out a decade ago (Krege's Treblinka visit in October 1999) and that remains unpublished to this day is hardly a righteous example of "intellectual honesty" that you proclaim it to be.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 2:51 am)

GK - its a good idea of course. Being a little cynical of the revisionist movement I doubt it would ever get off the ground. However, should someone have a go, I am willing to put up 1000 dollars towards the funding. Provided I have some kind of assurance that it would go ahead and the data obtained would be released for open scrutiny as soon as possible - of course giving the people who carry out the study a reasonable period to claim intellectual credit for their work.

I think it is very unlikely you would initially get permission to drill holes (only polish academics who dont own cameras get that) and although some objections raised towards it would be cynical, not all those who objected would be cynical. Nonetheless a GPR study, well documented would be very persuasive as a basis for more instrusive testing. Incidently, when Leuchter, Rudolf et al published their cyanides findings, the industry did not (and does not) dispute their scientific data per se, rather sort ways to circumvent them.

In fact I am even willing to put a 1000 dollars to buy Krege's data. The single scan published on the web is quite conclusive IF (and I stress if) the scan image comes from area supposed to contain mass graves and is backed by identical scan data from areas completely impossible to contain mass graves.

The Krege's single released image scan shows an obvious and undisputable transistion at -3 meters which it is difficult to conceive could be preserved by multiple digging up, removing soil, burying bodies, removing bodies, returning soil and refilling cavity - the commonly quoted figure for the depth of the graves is 10 meters and even that would be a stretch to include all the bodies they are supposed to. If Krege has properly documented his work and the areas he took scans and that 3 meter transistion (not to mention the more subtle layering) is present uniformly, then hes nailed it. Hypothetically one could suggest bizarre scenarios that might create an artifact with both grave and non grave areas preserving this transistion - but at least the demand for more instrusive testing (documented by camers, Prof. Kola) would now be entirely reasonable

Of course, as all we have is a single scan from an unknown position in Treblinka, we cant conclude anything. But I would be willing to bet his data would be conclusive if released publically.

I did see on another forum, an internet troll offer a certain Dr Nick Terry to pay his expensives, airfares etc and give him sole publication rights if he would be willing to obtain permission to do a GPR scan and be present as the data was collected. An offer that got the poor chap in quite panic - he rather excitedly ran through a variety reasons to decline before finally settling for the unarguable one that it would damage his career (and it most certainly would, but doesnt say much for his faith in what lies under the soil of the Treblinka II). It was quite funny, ahhh happy memories.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:48 am)

GK, I like your idea too! I'd be willing to contribute 1.000 us dollars for the funding as Jnovitz! 8)

"Wahrheit"
Indeed, Mattogno has based much of his AR works on the accuracy of said investigations (he suggests they didn't find enough evidence of mass murder).


Yes, because it makes sense in this case. When the Soviets claim to have found 3 little mass graves
containing 305 bodies and 13 individual graves while failing to find the huge pits containing the remains of hundreds of thousands, there is NO reason to doubt they did indeed find what they claimed to have found, since it runs IN TOTAL disagreement to their BS, present in the same report, that 3 million had been murdered at Treblinka.
Same for the Polish investigations, when they totally failed to find, even with the help of witnesses, the
foundations for the alleged gas chambers.
That people died in transit to Treblinka or at Treblinka(same for the other AR camps), is obviously undisputed.
The few remains and mass graves found as well as the failure to locate the structures of the gas chambers,
(and not only by the Soviets and Poles) clearly demonstrate that these camps were not death camps.

"Wahrheit"
Krege cannot be considered to support your side, as his research was never brought forward. If anything, his failure to publish his findings (be it in a book or article) is indicative of him finding something that he wished he hadn't.


Total BS, as the troll and sad little liar "Wahrheit", well knows. The most likely explanation is that Kreges study may
not have been quite up to scientific standarts. As Rudolf had scheduled it for publication it is probable that
Rudolf intended to improve it but that he saw real value in it.(somewhat as he did with his commented Leuchter report).
Unfortunately, the holo industry saw to it that the inconvenient Rudolf ended up in a german prison before
he had the chance to publish that study and many others.

Jnovitz
I did see on another forum, an internet troll offer a certain Dr Nick Terry to pay his expensives, airfares etc and give him sole publication rights if he would be willing to obtain permission to do a GPR scan and be present as the data was collected. An offer that got the poor chap in quite panic - he rather excitedly ran through a variety reasons to decline before finally settling for the unarguable one that it would damage his career (and it most certainly would, but doesnt say much for his faith in what lies under the soil of the Treblinka II). It was quite funny, ahhh happy memories.


Buahahahhaaha, I remember this one too, it was indeed quite amusing!
As a matter of fact this may be quite personal to "Wahrheit", as this troll is very likely nick terry in disguise! :mrgreen:

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 1:23 pm)

Wahrheit,

Why do you think they covered the place with 17,000 huge cement blocs ?

So that it would be easier to look for proof ?

Get real !

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Mojo » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:24 pm)

grenadier wrote:That people died in transit to Treblinka or at Treblinka(same for the other AR camps), is obviously undisputed.


According to the train records, wasn't it less than a 24hr trip from the ghettos to Treblinka with several stops along the way? Conditions would have to be over 120 F/49 C in the shade to kill someone in less than a day from a lack of water, & you can go up to weeks without food. How did those in transit die?

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby nickterry » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 5:31 pm)

Gébé Tremblay wrote:Wahrheit,

Why do you think they covered the place with 17,000 huge cement blocs ?

So that it would be easier to look for proof ?

Get real !


To summarise from Martyna Rusiniak, Oboz zaglady Treblinka II w pamieci spolecznej (1943-1989), Warsaw, 2008

The stones were in place on the Treblinka site by 1963, after designs for memorials had been discussed ever since 1947. It seems not much was done until the start of the 1960s and one could still kick over human bones on the surface as late as 1959. Work had however begun by 1960, the new design was authorised in about 1958. The start of the 1960s saw a general expansion of museums in Poland, and the erection of a proper monument was part of this trend as much as it was given extra impetus by events such as the Eichmann Trial. The big stone monument was unveiled in May 1964.

As the Polish authorities were behind the Iron Curtain, it would seem most likely they simply wanted to turn a grave site into a proper cemetery with symbolic headstones, which was not out of keeping with how human cultures have commemorated the dead in many different situations. The Polish authorities would have also felt they had done their investigation more than 15 years previously in 1945 and thus there was no need to 'preserve the crime scene'. They would also have been utterly ignorant of Revisionism, which was only just getting started around this time with Rassinier, and such ideas would have hardly penetrated past the Iron Curtain. Revisionists did not in any case pay much attention to Treblinka until the 1980s, since Rassinier discussed Belzec and Gerstein in his work. The selfsame Polish authorities did not of course cover over the Belzec site, nor the sites at Chelmno or Sobibor.

And no, I'm not Wahrheit.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Lamprecht » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 8:51 pm)

Mojo wrote:
grenadier wrote:That people died in transit to Treblinka or at Treblinka(same for the other AR camps), is obviously undisputed.
According to the train records, wasn't it less than a 24hr trip from the ghettos to Treblinka with several stops along the way? Conditions would have to be over 120 F/49 C in the shade to kill someone in less than a day from a lack of water, & you can go up to weeks without food. How did those in transit die?
Disease?
"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance -- that principle is contempt prior to investigation."
— Herbert Spencer

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 9:03 pm)

Mojo wrote:
grenadier wrote:That people died in transit to Treblinka or at Treblinka(same for the other AR camps), is obviously undisputed.


According to the train records, wasn't it less than a 24hr trip from the ghettos to Treblinka with several stops along the way? Conditions would have to be over 120 F/49 C in the shade to kill someone in less than a day from a lack of water, & you can go up to weeks without food. How did those in transit die?


BTW, Krege claimed to have not found ANY graves at Treblinka. Actually, he hardly found anything at all.

Ergebnis

GEFUNDEN:

Der Boden besteht zum größten Teil aus unberührter Erde, Sand und Steinen. Die Bäume sind älter als 50 Jahre.

NICHT GEFUNDEN:

Massengräber, Einzelgräber, Knochenreste, Menschenasche, Holzasche, Bodenunebenheiten, Bauelemente oder Baumüll, Baumüberreste oder Baumstümpfe, Höhlen oder Hohlräume, Goldzähne.


http://www.vho.org/VffG/2000/1/Krege62-64.html

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:53 pm)

GurtKerstein said: "most Holocaust legends have a grain of truth in them,"

What do you mean GurtKerstein? Do you mean like living with wolves, surviving six gassings, or breathing through gas chamber door keyholes?

C'mon GurtKerstein, tell us a holo legend that has a grain of truth in it. Tell us the grain if you will.

Bradley can't even get ONE name outta six million. How big a grain is 1/6,000,000th?

Until someone comes up with a name, we may as well go back to sleep. We need a name to show there was at least one person holocausted. Without a name there was no holocaust. All there is is folks freaky Hollywood imaginations, and German courts which don't allow any evidence.

GurtKerstein, If there was a grain of truth to the scam anywhere, the German courts would be peeing their pants in jubilation. We would never hear the end of it. But what do we see? Trials held in the spirit of the inquisition. Kidnapping, censorship, threats, and other assorted shameful stone-walling tactics. But never so much as a grain of truth or a grain of evidence.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby nickterry » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:48 am)

Lamprecht wrote:
Mojo wrote:
grenadier wrote:That people died in transit to Treblinka or at Treblinka(same for the other AR camps), is obviously undisputed.
According to the train records, wasn't it less than a 24hr trip from the ghettos to Treblinka with several stops along the way? Conditions would have to be over 120 F/49 C in the shade to kill someone in less than a day from a lack of water, & you can go up to weeks without food. How did those in transit die?
Disease?


The accounts describing deaths in transit to Belzec and Treblinka mention suffocation from lack of air and general exhaustion, especially among those who were marched long distances to the railheads or were held waiting for prolonged periods before the transports left. Dehydration would be a contributory factor. The deportees were crammed into waggons in numbers far beyond their capacity. Virtually all the reports date from August and September 1942 when the summer heat was at its greatest. Obviously, the elderly and the young succumbed first.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:17 am)

nickterry said: "The accounts describing deaths in transit to Belzec and Treblinka mention suffocation from lack of air and general exhaustion, especially among those who were marched long distances to the railheads or were held waiting for prolonged periods before the transports left. Dehydration would be a contributory factor. The deportees were crammed into waggons in numbers far beyond their capacity. Virtually all the reports date from August and September 1942 when the summer heat was at its greatest. Obviously, the elderly and the young succumbed first.

Big deal. What a lot of waffle; and all about Jews on trains.

I had a granddad in Crete. He marched long distances. German paratroopers were getting shot down by the thousands; he and his mates were getting decimated on the ground. Big Deal nickterry. If Jews want to give themselves medals for a death or two on a train, can't they do it quietly?

We all know Jews suffered less and gained most (financially) from the war. All we need do is open our eyes and have a look around.

C'mon nickterry, enough with the hollywood jew melodrama sob story. Nobody is buying it. we know it ain't true. We know it's all special effects.

But dont let me be the one to stop you trying. Come up with the goods or stop pulling our legs. Don't just tell us Jews had a hard time, or we will all start laughing.
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Inquisitive » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 11:56 am)

nickterry,

The accounts describing deaths in transit to Belzec and Treblinka mention suffocation from lack of air and general exhaustion, especially among those who were marched long distances to the railheads or were held waiting for prolonged periods before the transports left.


I haven't been able to find examples of suffocation in small spaces unless the space was hermetically sealed ........... or fire, or another gas was introduced in a controlled atmosphere. Who died from suffocation and how was this possible?

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby nickterry » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:13 pm)

Inquisitive wrote:nickterry,

The accounts describing deaths in transit to Belzec and Treblinka mention suffocation from lack of air and general exhaustion, especially among those who were marched long distances to the railheads or were held waiting for prolonged periods before the transports left.


I haven't been able to find examples of suffocation in small spaces unless the space was hermetically sealed ........... or fire, or another gas was introduced in a controlled atmosphere. Who died from suffocation and how was this possible?


I'd say it would be very easy to suffocate if one ended up on the bottom of a pile of human beings crushed into a confined space with limited ventilation, from which there was no exit for many hours on end. The waggons were not well ventilated although there were some air holes (see below). It is not difficult to imagine that those next to the air holes could block the flow of air to the centre of the carriage, and coupled with the effects of exhaustion, heat, lack of water and resulting dehydration, not to mention the stench of bodily fluids, that especially the elderly and small children would die. There are additionally reports that the waggons were cleansed with quicklime or other cleaning agents, which then contributed noxious fumes to the situation. The best known such report is from Jan Karski, but there are numerous others from those who were on the transports.

In such a situation, it is a combination of factors that made the trains potentially lethal to some of the deportees. Overcrowding in a train alone might not kill you, but together with heat and insufficient air plus resulting dehydration, and the exhaustion of having to stand up and smell other people's piss and shit, or breathe in quicklime fumes, and the risk of being trampled if you lose your footing, well, that sure as hell can kill you. Anyone who has been on a London tube train in the summer knows how stifling they can get if they stop for even just a short while, and they are rarely as crowded as the trains in Tokyo or the trains we are discussing here. Nor do people usually get stuck in such situations for nearly 24 hours.

Another cause of death was being shot trying to jump off the train and escape.

For all these things there are some German contemporary documents, some contemporary Polish underground reports, and quite a few witness statements. Enough that one would conclude that people died in transit, not enough to be very precise on exactly how many, but it is very much limited to August-September 1942, which was the peak of the deportations and in the summer. A very well known document is the police report on the deportation from Kolomea west to Belzec. The death toll in this case was 2000 people, a lot from shooting, but evidently some from suffocation/exhaustion/dehydration.


7. Pol. 24

Tgb. Nr 64/42 (g). Lemberg 14 September 1942

To:

Commander of the Order Police in the Galicia District

Lemberg

Subject: Jewish Resettlement

After carrying out Jewish resettlement actions on 3 and 5 September 1942 in Skole, Stryj and Chodorow, for which Captain of the Schutzpolizei Kropelin was in charge of the Order Police involved and which has already been reported in detail, the 7th Company of the 24th Police Regiment arrived as ordered in Kolomea on the evening of 6 September.

I immediately contacted Kriminalkommissar and SS- Obersturmfuhrer Leitmeritz, head of the branch office of the Security Police in Kolomea, and First Lieutenant Hertel of the Schutzpolizei in Kolomea

Contrary to the experience in Stryj, the action planned for 7 September 1942 in Kolomea was well prepared and made easy for all units involved. The Jews had been informed by the above mentioned agencies and the Labour office to gather at the collection point of the Labour office for registration on 7 September at 5.30 a.m.

Some 5,300 Jews were actually assembled there at the appointed time. With all the manpower of my company, I sealed the Jewish quarter and searched thoroughly, whereby some 600 additional Jews were hunted down.

The loading of the transport train was completed about 7.00 p.m. After the Security Police released some 1,000 from the total rounded up, 4,769 Jews were resettled. Each car of the transport was loaded with 100 Jews. The great heat prevailing that day made the entire action very difficult and greatly impeded the transport.

After the regular nailing up and sealing of all cars, the transport train got underway to Belzec about 9.00 p.m. with a guard of one officer and nine men.

With the coming of deep darkness in the night, many Jews escaped by squeezing through air holes after removing the barbed wire. While the guard was able to shoot many of them immediately, most of the escaping Jews were eliminated that night or the next day by the railroad guard or other police units.

This transport was delivered in Belzec without noteworthy incident, although given the length of the train and the deep darkness, the guard had proved to be too weak, as the commander of the transport guard from 6th Company of Police Regiment 24, who returned directly to Stanislau, was able to report to me in person on 11 September.

On 7 September, some 300 Jews – old and weak, ill, frail, and no longer transportable were executed. According to the order of 4 September 1942 of which I was first informed on 6 September, concerning use of ammunition, 90% of those executed were shot with carbines and rifles. Only in exceptional cases were pistols used.
.
On 8 and 10 September 1942, actions in Kuty, Kosow, Horodenka, Zaplatow and Snityn (?) were carried out. Some 1,500 Jews had to be driven on foot marches 50 km from Kuty or 35 km from Kosow to Kolomea, where they were kept overnight in the courtyard of the Security Police prison with other Jews brought together from the region.

Other than the Jews rounded up in Horodenka and Sniatyn, who had already been loaded onto ten cars at each location by the Security Police, another 30 cars were loaded in Kolomea. The total number sent to Belzec on the resettlement train of 10 September 1942 amounted to 8,205

In the actions in the area around Kolomea on the 8, 9 and 10 September 1942, some 400 Jews had to be eliminated by shooting for the well- known reasons. In the great round up of Jews to be resettled by 10 September in Kolomea, the Security Police loaded all Jews into the 30 available train cars despite the objections I expressed.

Given the great heat prevailing on those days and the strain on the Jews from the long foot marches or from waiting for days without being given any provisions worth noting, the excessively great overloading of most of the cars with 180 to 200 Jews was catastrophic in a way that had tremendously adverse effects on the transport.

How densely the ten cars each in Horodenka and Sniatyn were loaded with Jews by the Security Police is beyond my knowledge. In any case, both transports arrived in Kolomea with completely inadequate guard, so that the barbed wire closing the air holes was almost entirely removed

As quickly as possible I had this train moved out of the train station in Kolomea and coupled with the 30 cars standing on a side track far from the station. The Jewish Police and members of the train station construction crew from Kolomea were employed until the onset of darkness to close up all the insufficiently sealed cars in the usual regulation manner.

A commando of one officer and fifteen men under the leadership of Captain Witzmann was assigned to guard the parked resettlement train of 50 cars until departure and to prevent any escape attempt.

Given the already described strains on the Jews, the negative effect of the heat, and the great overloading of most cars, the Jews attempted time and again to break out of the parked train cars, as darkness had already set in towards 7.30 p.m.

At 7.50 p.m. the guard commando of the resettlement train, with nine men under Corporal Jacklein, arrived at the side track. Breakout attempts from the parked train could not be prevented in the darkness, nor could escaping Jews be shot in flight. In all train cars Jews had completely undressed because of the heat.

As the train left Kolomea on schedule at 8.50 p.m. the guard took up their stations. The guard commando, as initially stipulated by me, was divided into five men in a passenger car at the front and five men in a passenger car at the end of the train.

On account of the length of the train and its total load of 8,205 Jews, this distribution proved to be unsuitable. Next time Corporal Jacklein will arrange a distribution of guards along the entire train.

Throughout the entire trip the policemen had to remain in the cabooses, in order to be able to counter the escape attempts of the Jews. Shortly into the journey the Jews attempted to break through the sides and even through the ceilings of certain train cars. They were partially successful in perpetrating this scheme, so that already five stations before Stanislau.

Corporal Jacklein had to ask the stationmaster in Stanislau by telephone to lay out nails and boards in order to seal the damaged cars as required by orders and to request the station guard to watch the train. As the train entered Stanislau, the train station workers and the station guards were present to carry out the necessary repairs and in addition take over guarding the train.

The work took one and a half hours. When the train subsequently resumed its journey, it was discovered at the next stop some stations later that once again large holes had been broken by the Jews in some of the train cars and that for the most part the barbed wire fastened on the outside of the ventilation windows had been torn off.

In one train car the Jews had even been working with hammer and saw. Upon interrogation they explained that the Security Police had left these tools with them, because they could make good use of them at their next work place. Corporal Jacklein made the Jews hand over the tools.

During the onward journey, at every station stop, help was needed to nail up the train, because otherwise the rest of the trip would not have been at all possible. At 11.15 a.m. the train reached Lemberg (Lvov).

Because no relief for the escort commando arrived, the escort commando Jacklein had to continue guarding the train until Belzec. After a brief halt at the Lemberg train station, the train continued to the suburban station of Kleparow, where nine trains marked with the letter “L” and destined for the labour camp, were turned over to SS- Obersturmfuhrer Schulze and unloaded.

SS- Obersturmfuhrer Schulze then had some additional 1,000 Jews loaded. About 1.30 p.m. the transport departed for Belzec. With the change of engine in Lemberg, such an old engine was hooked up that further travel was possible only with continuous interruptions.

The slow journey was time and again used by the strongest Jews to press themselves through the holes they had forced open and to seek their safety in flight, because in jumping from the slow-moving train they were scarcely injured. Despite the repeated requests to the engineer to go faster, this was not possible, so that the frequent stops on open stretches became increasingly unpleasant.
.
Shortly beyond Lemberg the commando had already shot off the ammunition they had with them and also used up a further 200 rounds that they had received from army soldiers, so that for the rest of the journey they had to resort to stones while the train was moving and to fixed bayonets when the train stopped.

The ever greater panic spreading among the Jews due to the great heat, overloading of the train cars, and smell of dead bodies – when unloading the train cars some 2000 Jews were found dead in the train – made the transport almost unworkable.

At 6.45 p.m. the transport arrived in Belzec and around 7.30 p.m. was turned over by Corporal Jacklein to the SS- Obersturmfuhrer and head of the camp there. Until the unloading of the transport around 10.00 p.m. Jacklein had to remain in the camp, while the escort commando was used to guard the train cars parked outside the camp.

Because of the special circumstances described, the number of Jews who escaped from this transport cannot be specified. Nonetheless, it can be assumed that at least two-thirds of the escaping Jews were shot or rendered harmless in some other way.

in the actions themselves for the period of 7 -10 September 1942, no special incidents occurred. The co-operation between the Security Police and the Order Police units involved was good and without friction.

(signed) Westermann
Reserve Lieutentant of the Schutzpolizei
And Company Commander

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Re: So What Would It Take?

Postby Greg Gerdes » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jan 05, 2010 1:44 pm)

nick

It seems not much was done until the start of the 1960s and one could still kick over human bones on the surface as late as 1959.



Let's see the proof nick.


nick

they simply wanted to turn a grave site into a proper cemetery with symbolic headstones,



A real grave site doesn't have "symbolic" headstones.

Please look at slide #4 here

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13185547/The- ... a-Holohoax

then answer the following questions nick:

1 - So how many jooos are buried in this "symbolic cemetery?"

2 - And in how many graves?


nick


And no, I'm not Wahrheit.



It's just that you two are so much alike nick.


Now nick, please tell us,

3 - How many jooos are buried at Treblinka?

4 - How many graves are these holocausted jooos buried in?

5 - Can you locate / prove the existence of just one grave that contains just one tenth of one percent of the alleged mass murder

Yes?

or

No?

6 - Can you provide the name of just one jew - with proof, who died in a diesel exhaust gas chamber at Treblinka.

Yes?

or

No?

7 - Can you provide the name of just one jew - with proof, who died from suffocation on the way to Treblinka.

Yes?

or

No?


Oh, and while your here nick, would you please go over to the "Muehlenkamp does Belzec / Chelmno" thread and answer a few simple questions for us? It seems Huehlenkamp and Warhiet and AHollankamp lack the courage to answer those simle questions.


8 - You're not afraid to answer a few simple questions abaut Chelmno, are you nick -

Yes?

or

No?


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