The SANITY Test!

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Gébé Tremblay
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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:31 am)

But how could they control the concentration ?

If the room is filled packed with people with no room to move, how does the people by the walls get the gas ? They say it was droped by a few holes on top so the powder would fall concentrated on a few people leaving a lot of people protected.

It makes no sense.

They would not even need zyclone B. The people in the room would run out of oxygen soon anough.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:05 am)

Exactly! There is no control at all of the concentrations except in a wholly erratic way by dumping more, or less, Zyklon-B into the chamber.

What would have been needed, and which would have been simple enough technically, would have been a circulation fan with some circulation ductwork. Then one would have been able to quickly disperse the cyanide throughout the chamber with some uniformity. But, we are told that there was only a small fan and that it was ONLY turned on after everyone was dead. Obviously, this is absurd and a lie.

Please look at the homepage on my website and see my discussions of the Kreislaufprinzip, lower column left. The German pesticide specialists and experts understood the importance of circulation extremely well and stressed its importance, again and again, as a major feature of their most advanced "standard delousing gas chambers" ---- and even stressed it in the design of their large railroad delousing tunnels. But for mass murder, it never seemed to have occurred to them? That is impossible to believe!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Sat Jan 09, 2010 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Gébé Tremblay
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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:38 pm)

Yes. This is what I find most important in your finding of those tunels, because we see that they were very well designed to produce this ventilation and with warm air (very important). Obviously, the claimants did not know about this technology and their "testimonies" of description of the supposed gas chambers prove they are lying.

But even a good ventilation system could not make good circulation of zyclone b in a room packed of hundreds of people with no room to move and kids packed on top of their heads ! That is what the "testimonies" say !

I agree with you that we dont need to go too technical about this.

Zyclon B is useless from the start.

It's good for quilling lice, because a lice in a room has LOTS OF ROOM ! :D

Be sure that your web site is next on my list (I'm not done with reading Roger Dommergue's excellent Vérité et Synthèse).

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:19 pm)

Good grief, Tremblay. I was hoping you would pass the SANITY test, but then you actually wrote the following:

But even a good ventilation system could not make good circulation of zyclone b in a room packed of hundreds of people with no room to move and kids packed on top of their heads !


Oh, really! Why not?

DEGESCH had for decades been fumigating and ventilating all kinds of densely packed commodities such as grain in silos with excellent results because of cyanide's excellent ability to penetrate and escape from the tiniest places. The HCN molecule is extremely small to begin with. Designing a proper circulation system for mass murder of humans is almost childishly easy for any moderately experienced heating-ventilating-air conditioning (HVAC) person. The heat from the Jews, still living, would have helped also by raising the room temperature above the boiling point of HCN.

The important point is that the alleged homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau had nothing like a "circulation system" even though they could have added it easily enough--and would have if they had been trying to commit mass murder. That is the flaw in the exterminationist case. The flaw is not that it would have been “A practical, total impossibility. ...the mass gassings are technically impossible” (Faurisson). Faurisson makes an utter fool of himself every time he tries that line of argument in court. It is so inexcusably stupid!

So far, Tremblay--you are failing the SANITY test.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Kiwichap » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:43 pm)

I can't believe we are discussing this again.
The important point is that the alleged homicidal gas chambers in Auschwitz-Birkenau had nothing like a "circulation system" even though they could have added it easily enough--and would have if they had been trying to commit mass murder. That is the flaw in the exterminationist case. The flaw is not that it would have been “A practical, total impossibility. ...the mass gassings are technically impossible” (Faurisson). Faurisson makes an utter fool of himself every time he tries that line of argument in court. It is so inexcusably stupid!


I figure Faurisson is right. The gassings were not technically possible because FPB has not taken into account the premis he introduced, to wit: "The heat from the Jews, still living, would have helped also by raising the room temperature above the boiling point of HCN.

And how did that happen without increasing humidity? HCN loves water. The Jews would have been soaked in HCN, their bodies their clothes. A big stinking pile of cyanide soaked sweaty hoax-a-costs. Try blowing that out with a fan in less than twenty minutes. FPB assumes the Germans, the sonder-commandos and anybody walking by were were all expendable. It's obvious the Germans didn't have the technology to gas lots of folk according to the fable. Neither does the USA. If they did. They would only need one chamber.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 7:14 pm)

Kiwichap has flunked the SANITY test!!

Obviously, I am wasting my time with people like Kiwichap. These discussion forums are actually so educational for me because I am learning a lot about people that I had never imagined, but it ain't encouraging.

Hey, Kiwichap. Where did you get "HCN loves water."? What does that mean? Did you pull that out of thin air--or what? Try coming up with some evidence aside from Leuchter or Faurisson. Cyanide and Zyklon-B were routinely used to fumigate ships worldwide. Ships tend to have lots of water in their holds and elsewhere. If there were any merit to Kiwichap's theory, it would have been humongously difficult to fumigate those ships---and impossible to ventilate those ships afterward. Clothing was also often wet before the many tens of thousands of routine fumigations as well. So, there is just no merit at all to your wild theory, Kiwichap! None. Zero!

BTW, the folks at RODOH were also given the SANITY test yesterday and aside from the usual insults, gave NO answers at all except for HerbivorousMoose who seemed to agree with me. The rest were, clearly, very frightened by the question itself.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Pappy Yokum » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 8:53 pm)

Many of the arguments concerning the use of Zyklon B used by Professor Faurisson and others regarding the distribution and flammability of hydrogen cyanide within a gas chamber all relate to the credibility of testimony regarding the gassing procedure. For the most part they predate the end of the Cold War and access to the sites in question and the availability of other documents relating to the installations at Auschwitz in particular and other Nazi camps behind the Iron Curtain.
The point to these arguments is whether the testimony concerning the use of Zyklon B as the killing agent at Auschwitz was credible. The characteristics of the fumigant regarding flammability , evaporation temperature, its adhesive qualities, its chemical stability in relationship to iron in brick and mortar, and so forth have all been raised. The point is that hydrogen cyanide, though a deadly poison, has some characteristics that make its handling difficult. Could these barriers to its use be overcome? I would assume they could be since HCN was used to execute convicts in the U.S. for many years. The killing of larger groups of people might present other technical problems, but that is not the issue. What we really want to know is whether these issues are addressed in how the Nazis are supposed to have murdered around a million Jews at Auschwitz.
What we have is testimony.
The testimony suggests that none of the issues making HCN problematic have been addressed in the Auschwitz extermination protocol. Additionally, the existent plans for the facilities where the gas chambers are said to exist don't address them either.
Assuming Faurisson is wrong and it is technically possible to use a HCN fumigant to quickly and repeatedly kill large numbers of people, that doesn't mean it is true. In any event, use of the morgues at Birkenau as gas chambers would be obvious either in their design or in chemical signatures left behind from their use as such. There is no evidence for any of that. There is only testimony that is contradicted by documents and the ruins.
I am not sure why Friedrich Berg is so hostile toward Robert Faurisson. I remember hearing him say years ago that Faurisson was a non-technical person making technical arguments. That may be true. In the end both Berg and Faurisson are right: the Nazis had no extermination program and the gas chamber story is false and absurd to anyone who has studied the matter.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Gébé Tremblay » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:17 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The HCN molecule is extremely small to begin with. Designing a proper circulation system for mass murder of humans is almost childishly easy for any moderately experienced heating-ventilating-air conditioning (HVAC) person.


One wonders why they used airplanes to kill people in the WTCs ! Or any big air-conditionned building !

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:21 am)

I don't know where the tunnels were located and what they look like, but I'm open to the idea that it would have worked, and I'm open to the idea that, had there been a real holocaust, the nazis would have obviously used the tunnels.

But why is it particularly strong as a point? Had there been a real holocaust, they wouldn't have used individual crematorium ovens either. One oven, one person at a time? Maybe two if you want to max out the capacity? Then just multiply stand alone ovens after that? I don't think so. That seems like a bigger point than the tunnel. They would have designed some sort of large crematorium, which would have incinerated the bodies about as fast as they chambers could gas them.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Drew J » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:51 am)

Here are the losers over at rodoh.
http://r odohforum.yuku.com/topic/10393/t/The-SANITY-Test.html?page=2

Kentford is a lunatic who admits he doesn't want to discuss the question. If delousing chambers could have been more effective at killing Jews than the weapons were are told were used to kill Jews, like Krema I at Auschwitz which was never a gas chamber, then that means that Nazis, in all their technological Germanic knowledge were complete morons who failed to see a better way to kill Jews. When Friedrich trotted down this new and original terrority, other revisionists were perhaps in a panic that he could be implying that the extermination theorists are right. Fritz is simply making a rhetorical point to score a victory for revisionism. In his mind, the Zionists have had years to claim that this other, more effective method was used but they did not. I hope this summary was good enough for anyone else who was curious as to what Friedrich may have been trying to do.


NAZI Railroad Delousing Tunnels for Public Health, or Mass Murder!
http://www.nazigassings.com/Railroad.html
Last edited by Drew J on Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:18 am)

In response to CCS:

Well, I have provided photographs--so just take a look at my homepage or at the OP to this thread. There are also excellent German essays which describe these devices in detail and exactly how they operated. So do your homework and read what I have written on these subjects. I can't regurgitate everything I have written on the subject just for this forum. Faurisson is a truly great and courageous man--and a great scholar except where scientific or technical issues are involved.

Among the reasons for why the issue is important are that the railroad delousing chambers would have worked, and the technical arguments I give are valid technically and scientifically. By contrast, Faurisson's technical arguments are totally off the wall and appeal only to more techno-idiots. For his devoted following of loyal techno-idiots, Faurisson is just great even as he continues to lose probably every court case he has ever been involved with. Maybe there is a reason? Think about that.

The following quote is from a German essay from 1943 by Dr Ludwig Gassner. See Appendix B to my essay Typhus and the Jews at: http://www.nazigassings.com/typhusandjews.html

In Europe such chambers exist in Potsdam, Cologne-Nippes, Posen, Zagreb, Budapest, Bucharest, Sarajevo, Skoplje. The most ideal arrangement is a circulatory system, which can handle even the most poisonous substance with ease and safety. There are also fumigation tunnels, as in Sarajevo for example, which can handle two railroad cars at a time. Of importance is the rapid and uniform distribution of the gas by means of circulation ducts or blowers, at least partly because the speed of the operation is the very key to its efficiency. Only relatively small amounts of the gas are necessary for this work. A Zyklon container with 500 grams of hydrocyanic acid is already sufficient to delouse a modern express passenger railroad car (approx. 200 cubic meters); larger containers are used in the fumigation tunnels where 500 to 1000 grams of hydrocyanic acid, depending upon the temperature, are used per 100 cubic meters of interior volume-the higher the temperature, the greater the effect of any given amount of the gas. [4]


I suspect there were also such chambers at Warsaw, Malkinia, and at Auschwitz.

For disposal of masses of corpses, incinerators would have made infinitely more sense than crematory ovens. The problems the SS had arose from the fact that they really were trying to return the ashes from individual corpses to family members. For recovering cremains from individual corpses (without comingling) one needs crematory ovens. If all one wants to do is destroy lots of bodies (evidence?), then incinerators (lots of comingling) capable of burning many bodies at a time are the way to go. Those soft-hearted SS, however, used ONLY crematory ovens--and have NEVER even been accused of using the incinerator ovens that were actually present inside Kremas 2 and 3, and probably elsewhere as well. So, what were those fiendish SS people thinking? The fact is the SS were trying to treat the dead with dignity and respect.

In response to Drew:

One of the things that has shocked me is just how incredibly dim-witted many revisionist true-believers are. Faurisson or Leuchter said this or that is "impossible," and for the true believers, the issue is settled and closed forever. The real world is not persuaded so easily--and rightly so. And besides, "Berg might even be Jewish." He is NOT!! For the dimwits, I have no more patience. Pass the SANITY test or "bye-bye" as far as I am concerned.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:37 am)

Finally, some details on the proposal (whose relevance and fundamental importance seems highly questionable).

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The following quote is from a German essay by Dr Ludwig Gassner. See Appendix B to my essay Typhus and the Jews at: http://www.nazigassings.com/typhusandjews.html

In Europe such chambers exist in Potsdam, Cologne-Nippes, Posen, Zagreb, Budapest, Bucharest, Sarajevo, Skoplje. The most ideal arrangement is a circulatory system, which can handle even the most poisonous substance with ease and safety. There are also fumigation tunnels, as in Sarajevo for example, which can handle two railroad cars at a time.


Wait a second, two railroad cars at a time, per gassing? And these are the supposedly efficient means of mass gassing that you propose?

As each railcar would not hold more than 200 people, thats a maximum of 400 people per gassing. Judging by the wording of Dr Gassner's essay, two-car tunnels seem to be the exception rather than the rule. And on top of that, one would have to deal with the fumigated clothing worn by the victims (in addition to other material), which would take significant ventilation to lose its cyanide. Then one must transport the corpses for some sort of a body disposal procedure (not specified).

This is your version of "sanity"?

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:59 am)

Surely you will agree, Wahrheit, that even if as few as a hundred people are gassed at a time, per hour--over many hours that will qualify as mass murder?

Don't hurt yourself thinking about it.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Wahrheit » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:45 am)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:Surely you will agree, Wahrheit, that even if as few as a hundred people are gassed at a time, per hour--over many hours that will qualify as mass murder?


Surely, but you are looking for an ultra-effective way at executing the mass murder, it seems. While others can rant and rave about what "complete morons" the Germans were, the Nazi gas chambers would have worked much more effectively. All your problems come after the gassing (dealing with clothes, inner railcar cyanide levels, hair, victims possessions, etc), which undoubtedly would have been harder to deal with after they were murdered than before, as they historically did (take off clothess, leave possessions, shave hair).

For Auschwitz-Birkenau, we are talking about some gas chambers that can hold more than five times the amount of victims in your railroad delousing tunnel, and which performed quicker and more directly than your method would allow.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 10 months ago (Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:18 pm)

Well, one all-important difference between the two methods is that the railroad method would have worked and it could have been employed right there in Budapest, for example--without requiring that long train trip to Auschwitz. Just drive the cars into the delousing chamber and then (after the Jews are all dead) off to a rail siding somewhere next to a ravine.

There are still other major problems with the Birkenau-Krema method that we have been led to believe in. For one, there is no separation between the alleged homicidal gas chambers (the mortuaries) and the crematoriums (Kremas 2 and 3). The dangers are NOT from possible explosions but from the fact that people are working there. They would have had to evacuate those buildings -- or equip every worker there with a gas mask to wear while they were burning bodies.

For delousing next to the reception building at Auschwitz 1 (the main camp). a beautiful building was constructed for which Pressac provided excellent construction drawings. That building contained 19 DEGESCH standard-delousing-chambers. When I was there in 1988, I did not see it because it was effectively hidden from everyone. But today, one can clearly see that beautiful building using GOOGLE Earth. What is significant is that the delousing chamber building with open sides was still s-e-p-a-r-a-t-e-d from the reception building by a breezeway to allow some final natural venting in addition to the forced venting within the gas chambers in order to help prevent even low levels of cyanide from getting into the reception building. At the Dachau crematorium, a breezeway was also used to separate the delousing gas chambers from the rest of the crematorium.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.


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