The SANITY Test!

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grenadier
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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby grenadier » 9 years 5 months ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:35 pm)

Gurtkerstein to Kiwi
Both you and Berg are besides the point. Berg with his meaningless hypothetical question and you, insisting that the Germans didn't possess a "technology" that could kill masses of inmates.


Hello Gurtkerstein,
You are so very mistaken in thinking that Mr.Berg’s question is a “meaningless hypothetical question”. The delousing tunnels could have been used and they certainly make a whole lot more sense for mass murder – had that been intended - than the Rube Goldberg schemes the hoaxters claim were used at Auschwitz.
For me, an even better Sanity Test would be; had the Nazi cannibals wanted to carry out mass gassings of Jews at Auschwitz, would they have used the idiotic Rube Goldberg schemes claimed, which would not have even worked, or would they have resorted to the tested and proven technology they employed on their delousing gas chambers, which incidentally, EXISTED at Auschwitz?
In this case, as Mr.Berg correctly points out, "we have a clear view of the Germans “actual thinking revealed by their superb designs, the best gas chamber designs anywhere in the world for fumigating, or any other purpose[…]”
This Sanity Test is quite easy and I think whoever would fail it is indeed INSANE!(or in need of more studying!) :wink:

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 5 months ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:53 pm)

By the false logic of GurtKerstein, the swimming pool at Auschwitz might also be "irrelevant." It is not even claimed the pool was involved in mass murder. So, why bother? The reason the swimming pool issue is important is that it undermines the holocaust mythology. GurtKerstein understands that but denies the relevance of the RR delousing technology. COOKOO!!! :scratch:

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby dejesus » 9 years 2 months ago (Sat May 15, 2010 1:21 pm)

Mr. Berg

The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?



I would have to aggree.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Moderator3 » 9 years 2 months ago (Mon May 17, 2010 1:52 pm)

Mr. Berg:
Stop the abusive language or leave, you've been asked this before.
Mod3

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 2 months ago (Tue May 18, 2010 12:09 am)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The test: Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?

Many prominent "revisionists" such as Butz, Faurisson and Toben have flunked the test.

Image

Image


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!



I am a little late responding to this post.

The main emphasis is on the words "easily" and "mass" and what is there definition in the context of genocide in the 1940's.

With all the evidence that has already been presented over the last 60+ years, by the jews, Soviets, Americans, Canadians, British, French, and any other group that hates Germany, the delousing chambers could NOT be used easily to commit mass murder. They could have killed people, but it wouldn't have been easy to kill millions in that manner. And if the Germans did kill millions in the train delousing chambers, we would have heard more howling from the survivors [sic].

One thing that is easily noticeable in the picture is the lack of holes in the roof to drop zyclone-b pellets. :lol:

P.S. Rather than saying the Germans could not have easily used the delousing chambers to commit mass murder, it might be better to say that the train delousing chambers prove that the Germans had better technology, knew how to use it, and if they really wanted to commit mass murder by gassing they would have come up with a better and more effective idea than the joke of a gas chamber that is presented to us at Auschwitz.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 2 months ago (Tue May 18, 2010 7:40 pm)

The objections of Ilikerealhistory are too silly.

There was no need for holes in the ceiling because the cyanide gas would usually enter from the side of the chamber from one or more separate rooms where the cyanide was driven out of the Zyklon--B granules by warm air blowers. This is all explained in the German essays to which I have linked earlier. These chambers allowed anyone to commit mass murder e-a-s-i-l-y and q-u-i-c-k-l-y. The trains with corpses could then continue on their merry way to Minsk, Bialystok, or wherever for disposal of the corpses.

To the substantial list of revisionists who agree with me, I can now add Germar Rudolf. Other revisionists who agree with me are Walter Lueftl, Carlo Mattogno, and Greg Gerdes. Those who do not agree with me such as Robert Faurisson, Arthur Butz and Ernst Zuendel should not bother going to my website--the material that I have put there is way over their heads. I am sorry to be so blunt but I can not waste any more time on them. Such people can simply spend their remaining days foolishly chanting Faurisson's nine-word challenge: "Show me or draw me a Nazi gas chamber." I have provided more than enough drawings and photos of German gas chambers which actually existed and which certainly would have been more than capable of mass murder--q-u-i-c-k-l-y and e-a-s-i-l-y.

The struggle against the holocaust hoax is a deadly, serious struggle and the ultimate consequences for the world are even more serious--like thermonuclear world war over Iran and its "denial" of the hoax. The struggle will NOT be won by spouting nonsense. If it were that simple, Faurisson's nine words would have had some effect already beyond his small circle of devoted fans and worshipers. Techno-idiots stay home or just go away, please!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
just another website that denies the holocaust hoax
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Cloud » 9 years 2 months ago (Tue May 18, 2010 8:35 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:There are cookoos everywhere and so it should be no surprise that some are on the revisionist side as well--or that revisionists make mistakes. The answer to the problem is for revisionists to rethink their work and air corrections as best they can. I have made errors as well--but I have tried to correct them. The internet today allows us to do all that.


What errors have you made? Just curious.

When a newcomer to revisionism notices that the revisionists can't agree with each other, who is he supposed to believe? Maybe he will simply end up being an agnostic about about the whole matter:

"I don't deny the Holocaust happened, nor do I believe it did. I don't know whether it happened or not. I just don't know..."

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 2 months ago (Tue May 18, 2010 10:01 pm)

Well, one error was in thinking corpses might get blue if there was not enough oxygen for them to survive. That was totally wrong.

Another error was in thinking that gasoline exhaust would definitely kill everyone in just a few minutes. Lots of people will survive more than twenty minutes.

Another error was not realizing that the temperature of the exhaust could be the real killer--which it sometimes is.

But my biggest error was in thinking that most people could understand rather simple technical arguments if one wrote and spoke to them clearly and slowly enough. The fact is that lots of people, including many men who think of themselves as somehow techncally savvy cannot grasp even the most basic concepts. For example, the smell of diesel exhaust convinces many that diesel exhaust must definitely be toxic as well. There ain't no connection between diesel smell and toxicity. I am still confronted on occasion by guys who are convinced I must be wrong about diesel exhaust ASTRO3 doesen't seem to understand that either.

For the holocaust claims, diesel exhaust is actually much more important than the cyanide claims. Hardly anyone seems willing to admit that. So many disappointments!

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Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 2 months ago (Tue May 18, 2010 11:58 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:The objections of Ilikerealhistory are too silly.

There was no need for holes in the ceiling because the cyanide gas would usually enter from the side of the chamber from one or more separate rooms where the cyanide was driven out of the Zyklon--B granules by warm air blowers.

I have provided more than enough drawings and photos of German gas chambers which actually existed and which certainly would have been more than capable of mass murder--q-u-i-c-k-l-y and e-a-s-i-l-y.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
just another website that denies the holocaust hoax
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!



I was being facetious (sarcastic) about the holes in the roof. That is why I put the laughing smiley at the end. I know that there doesn't need to be holes in the roof for it to be a gas chamber, but the Holocaust believers claim that holes (black spots) in the roofs that are visible on aerial photos of Auschwitz are proof that gas chambers existed. No holes, no gas chambers at Auschwitz (I think there is another post on this board about those holes in the roof at Auschwitz).

You say that the Germans could quickly and easily commit mass murder with the train delousing chambers, but how you define those two words may be different than the way I define those words. Those words are not quantitative. That means there are no numbers associated with those words, and we have no reference to determine what is considered quick or easy. If you were to say that each individual delousing chamber could kill 100,000 people in a minute, than I could say that it could not be done that easily, nor that quickly. If you say that 50 people could be killed every 2 hours, then I could say that it could be possible.

You will notice that the delousing chamber is blocked off at one end. That means each railroad car would have to be pushed in and pulled out individually by a locomotive. This does not sound like an easy, nor quick, operation to me, but it may appear like an easy and quick operation to you. This is where our conflict arises: The interpretation of words quick and easy.

If you want to say that it would be easier and quicker to kill people in the train delousing chamber as opposed to the imaginary gas chambers at Auschwitz, than I would agree, especially since the delousing chambers existed and the Auschwitz chambers did not.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Lohengrin » 9 years 1 month ago (Wed May 19, 2010 8:21 pm)

Sorry for coming in so late in this discussion, but is it really stupid asking why neither Faurisson nor FPB mention the very most efficient, cheap, logical and simple way to kill people efficiently in 'train tunnels'?

In my opinion this is NOT by using Zyklon-B in tunnels (with Faurissons "problems" for ventilation, handling of corpses, etc.), and irrelevant of FPB's denying those problems, but in the same tunnels replacing this stupid insane Zyklon-B stuff for clean and simple Holzgas!

And not so in an overcrowded camp like Auschwitz, but somewhere in the middle of nowhere? Wasn't this 'Holocaust' a 'Top Secret', 'Systematic' mass killing of Jews after all? I prefer to to keep things simple, as you see.

The 'Holzgas Tunnel Solution' is the answer for Faurisson and all other 'problems' in this discussion, don't you think? :D

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 1 month ago (Wed May 19, 2010 10:43 pm)

The Holzgas tunnel solution would have worked but so would the Zyklon-B solution. Faurisson and his loyal and blindly devoted followers have made far too much of the problems of venting cyanide unless they intended to lie down and sleep with the corpses. Clothing and mattresses had to be thoroughly vented because people wore the clothing almost immediately afterward and probably slept with the clothing as well. With corpses, one does not generally do that--so, not to worry so much.

In any event, the exact numbers of people one could gas and how quickly are easy enough to calculate. Pushing cattle cars with Jews into the delousing gas chambers and out after an hour with a switching locomotive would have been routine in any large railroad yard. Just determine how many railroad cars your delousing tunnel can gas at one time, then multiply that by the number of Jews stuffed into each car and multiply that by the number of hours one intended to operate in any given day--voila, you will have the daily capacity of your gassing facility. If you want more capacity--add more delousing tunnels, or make them bigger, or stuff even more Jews into the cattle cars. It is so easy!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
"just another website that denies the holocaust hoax"
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Lohengrin » 9 years 1 month ago (Thu May 20, 2010 8:21 am)

FPB:The Holzgas tunnel solution would have worked, but so would the Zyklon-B solution.

Absolutely right! But, once I made the comparison: "Why did the Germans cut down forests with potato peelers, if saws (Zyklon-tunnels) and much better still, chain-saws (Holzgas tunnels) were fully available for free, without risks and without any problems whatsoever?

I agree the Zyklon-tunnel is a logical and comprehensible elaboration of the Zyklon-B nonsense, but I hold the Germans and their common sense in case of a 'Final Solution' far better than that.

They never would have chosen this Zyklon bungling, because they were not stupid!

One of the most important disadvantages of Zyklon-B - and this is underexposed in revisionist literature - is the fact that once the gas is spread out in the 'gas chamber', it can't be stopped for 15 hours or so! Holzgas supply can be stopped at any moment and at once.

Although tunnels have the advantage stopping the Zyklon gas supply, the gas is, as we all (and the Germans!) know, very persistent and enduring.

I think, only Holzgas tunnels are (in a sense!) 'sane'!

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 1 month ago (Thu May 20, 2010 10:22 am)

Well Lohengrin. I suggest you actually r-e-a-d the Zyklon-B literature (much of it on my website) because it clearly shows just how the dispersal of cyanide was stopped. Learn to walk before you try to run!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
"just another website that denies the holocaust hoax"
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 1 month ago (Thu May 20, 2010 3:58 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote: Pushing cattle cars with Jews into the delousing gas chambers and out after an hour with a switching locomotive would have been routine in any large railroad yard. If you want more capacity--add more delousing tunnels, or make them bigger, or stuff even more Jews into the cattle cars. It is so easy!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
"just another website that denies the holocaust hoax"
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!




Let me ask you a question.

Would it be easier (faster and more cost effective) to gas jews in any manner, or to just shoot them with a bullet?

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Re: The SANITY Test!

Postby Lohengrin » 9 years 1 month ago (Thu May 20, 2010 4:24 pm)

FPB: Well Lohengrin. I suggest you actually r-e-a-d the Zyklon-B literature (much of it on my website) because it clearly shows just how the dispersal of cyanide was stopped. Learn to walk before you try to run!

Sorry FP, but I don't get your point (or maybe you don't got mine). Maybe you didn't read my posting carefully, or I didnt express myself correctly. I'm trying to walk on steady ground, and that's not on Zyklon-B for this 'Final Solution', neither in "Zyklon Gas Chambers", nor in "Zyklon tunnels". In my opinion Zyklon-B is one of the very last 'gasses' one should choose for mass gassing because of an awful lot of disadvantages you very well know, compared with (for example) Holzgas.
If you can tell me otherwise, and especially were in my reaction I was mistaken, I appreciate it. One is never too old to learn (walking).

Of course, it's no problem to stop the dispersal of cyanide (whether or not from gypsum pellets) in special-made facilities like (for example tunnels). Problematic however are aspects of persistence of the cyanide, adherence to bodies, trains, etc., and minor difficulties as availability, costs of Zyklon and special installations, etc. Especially when there was Holzgas. Got my point?

However it was possible for the Germans to use Zyklon-B (or direct HCN), they would never have used this because there was Holzgas and they were not insane.

The existing Zyklon tunnels have only some value as an example of a more efficient process for mass gassing with Zyklon-B than those 'Gas chambers' not in the pursuit of really efficient mass-killing.


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