The SANITY Test!

[astro3]

Lack of logic in Berg’s argument
1. Let us suppose that eg 50 or 100 persons are crammed into the large (vehichle-delousing) cyanide gas-chamber shown in his picture.
First, he has to demonstrate that they cannot smash their way out of it when the door is shut. It wasn't built for such a purpose.

But, let’s suppose he could do this, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt.

Clearly, lethal mass gassing would be feasible had they used carbon monoxide: easy and quickly. They had tons of it from the industrial plants.

But instead they used slow-release, safe-to-use Zyklon granules. Mr Berg, here is where your case falls apart.
2. The gas chamber has to be airtight for the zyklon to be used.
3. Because its slow – an hour or two to kill everyone, on a cold day – they would die quicker of asphyxiation.
4. In other words, there would be no point in using the Zyklon - if you are able to cram loads of people into an airtight gas chamber.

That might be one reason why MASS HUMAN CYANIDE GAS CHAMBERS HAVE NEVER EXISTED IN HUMAN HISTORY – NOWHERE, NEVER.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Well Astro3. I suggest you actually r-e-a-d the Zyklon-B literature (much of it on my website) because it clearly shows just how the cyanide from Zyklon-B was q-u-i-c-k-l-y released and then vented quickly afterward also, ALL in only about one hour. Learn to read before you try to be a smart-Alec!

The cyanide was q-u-i-c-k-l-y blown out of the Zyklon-B granules (usually held in a basket) with pre-warmed air (preferably about 10 degrees above the boiling point of cyanide). Just read my essay from more than twenty years ago: "Zyklon-B and the German Delousing Chambers." http://www.nazigassings.com/zyklondelousing.html

The intended victims would not have been strolling around inside the railroad delousing tunnels either---they would have been securely locked inside the same cattle cars that were being used to transport them across Europe against their will. Chances of escape would have been minimal.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
"just another website that denies the holocaust hoax"
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!

[The Warden]

Instead of making the tunnels airtight, they could've easily made the cattle cars airtight.
Vents for the delivery of the Zyklon in the roofs of the cattle cars could be accessed through hatches in the tunnels themselves.
To remove the cyanide, the cars could have simple exhaust fans running while the train traveled to the body disposal area.
Once the trains arrive, the bodies could be safely removed and processed.

Call it a "portable leichenkellar", if you will.
You could even refrigerate the cars once the deed was done to prevent the cyanide from being released further, and preserve the bodies at the same time.

[Ilikerealhistory]

Instead of making the tunnels airtight, they could've easily made the cattle cars airtight.
Vents for the delivery of the Zyklon in the roofs of the cattle cars could be accessed through hatches in the tunnels themselves.
To remove the cyanide, the cars could have simple exhaust fans running while the train traveled to the body disposal area.
Once the trains arrive, the bodies could be safely removed and processed.

Call it a "portable leichenkellar", if you will.
You could even refrigerate the cars once the deed was done to prevent the cyanide from being released further, and preserve the bodies at the same time.

That was my thought also, but I didn't put it in my original post. They could have also used fuel heaters in the rail cars to keep the jews warm. These heaters could be made to malfunction at a specific time and fill the car with carbon monoxide, smoke, and other toxic fumes. The only thing that would be more preposterous then the gassing stories would be to claim that the Germans told the jews to hold their breath until the suffocated.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

60,000 Railroad Cars per year fumigated with cyanide at Texas-Mexico Border
The following is from my website where I placed it a-f-t-e-r the previous comments in this thread had already appeared.
___________________________________________

POPULAR MECHANICS magazine in 1922, page 595, describes how huge “Poison-Gas Chambers Disinfect Freight” with cyanide gas. http://books.google.com/books?id=LtoDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA595&lpg=PA595&dq#v=onepage&q&f=false Oh, my-oh my! “One of the largest houses, located in El Paso, has three five-car units, each of which measures 225 ft. in length, 12 ft. in width, and 16-1/2 ft. in height.” Four locations along the US-Mexico border had a capacity of 60,000 railcars per year. Could those same gas chambers, using Zyklon-B or plain cyanide gas, have been used to gas Mexicans or Jews as well? Why not? Didn't the Jews travel to Auschwitz, Treblinka, etc, on railroad trains anyway? Instead of gassing them to death a-f-t-e-r they stepped off the train, do it all before they get off the train and not-to-worry about any escapes or turmoil.

American railcars are substantially larger than European railcars. If 100 Jews had been trapped in each railway car, 6 million could have been killed in just one year at the Texas-Mexico border. It would have been technically achievable. It never happened because there was no desire to do anything like that in Texas, or in Europe. The holocaust gassing claims really are a monstrous Jewish hoax!.

Early History of U. S. Cyanide Fumigation from Clemson University
"Fighting Our Insect Enemies"

1886 — Hydrocyanic acid gas (HCN), one of most deadly gases known, discovered as fumigant for insect control purposes,. 1887 —Pot generation of HCN gas developed for fumigation purposes,.1894 — Hydrocyanic acid gas (HCN) first used for control of insects in greenhouses,1898 — Hydrocyanic acid gas first used for control of insects in homes,1904 — Potassium cyanide powder advocated for control of ants,1905 — Hydrocyanic acid gas advocated for control of cigarette beetle,1912 — Hydrocyanic acid gas used for ship fumigation, Hydrocyanic acid gas adopted by U. S. Public Health Service as standard fumigant, 1915 — liquid hydrogen cyanide first tested for insect control purposes, 1917 — Hydrocyanic acid gas fumigation methods developed for control of insects affecting greenhouse ornamental plants, First railway car fumigation houses erected at Brownsville, Laredo, Eagle Pass, and El Paso, TX., liquid hydrocyanic acid gas introduced commercially.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO "limited gassings!" There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
Please visit and support: http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

[Bob]

Do you agree with me that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been e-a-s-i-l-y used to commit mass murder by the Nazis?

As discussed on Rodoh, I do not agree that railroad delousing gas chambers could have been easily used for this purpose.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

OK, Bob. WHY?

Your vague reference to a discussion on RODOH does not help much. Can you be more specific?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO "limited gassings!" There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
Please visit and support: http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

[Bob]

Sorry, I thought you remember it. Here is the link for our longer debate regarding this issue and some of the important comments:

http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... =60#p34116
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... =70#p34191
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... 510#p35709
http://rodoh.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f ... =80#p34232

Unfortunately, it would have been a bit complicated to copy everything here in chronological order.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Special tahnks to Bob for his constructive comments above.

I suspect Bob is absolutely correct to insist that I was wrong in claiming that 0.1% in air was sufficient for gas executions. Such a low a concentration may indeed cause death as claimed in the medical literature--but, for practical executions much more is necessary. But, how large a concentration was actually used in practice? Here Leuchter could be so helpful but he refuses to answer any questions from me. 1%, or perhaps 3%, or perhaps even more than the critical 5.8% may be used in practice--or even much more in order to overcome the resistance of the prisoner. That 5.8% is the minimum amount needed to sustain any kind of flame, the beginning of an explosion.

The major problem that executioners face in the US is the unwillingness of prisoners to take that deep first breath, with a lethal dose--the key to a successful "painless or quick" execution as opposed to a "botched execution." So, how high are the actual HCN concentrations in practice? Is one of the dirty little secrets of the "gas chamber experts," to put far more HCN into the gas chamber by simply adding one or more EXTRA cyanide salt eggs into the pot below the prisoner? Who knows? Leuchter ain't talking. But, that might well explain the fear of Leuchter for an explosion. Was there ever an instance of an explosion in actual executions or during the preparation procedures? No doubt, if there were, they would have been kept quiet for fear that an outraged public would have had one more excuse to ban gas executions.

Amazingly, enough, the fiendish Nazis never seemed to have had any botched executions ever--or any related explosions either.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO "limited gassings!" There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
Please visit and support generously: http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Another possible "executioner's trick" might to be to sedate the prisoner before a gas execution. Even the ISIS murderers seem to do that for their decapitation victims.

Sedation is certainly done with lethal injection executions. The first of the three drugs introduced into the prisoner is, as far as I know, a sedative. So, why would they have not done the same with gas executions? Well, if sedated, how likely would the prisoner be to wholeheartedly assist in his own gas execution by taking that first deep breath of cyanide gas with a lethal dose. The prisoner might not even know what was happening. Perhaps, one way the gas chamber experts compensated was by adding much more cyanide-=-with an increased danger of fire and explosion. Is that why Leuchter was really concerned about explosions--and with good reason? But Leuchter ain't talking--at least not to me.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything athttp://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO "limited gassings!" There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
Please visit and support generously:http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

[borjastick]

Friedrich, in theory the sedation prior to execution in the gas chambers thought has some merit. They would probably have been given a drink with some level of sleeping potion in it or similar. However there is no record AFAIK of this happening. No witness statements from those who miraculously survived the gas chambers but found the shower heads delivered water etc.

Also no written records and spurious claims from the other side. They would have needed millions of litres of whatever the potion was and no one claims such a thing.

[Friedrich Paul Berg]

Borjastick seems to have missed my point completely. I merely suggested that sedation might have been used for American gas executions--and that the longer resulting execution times might have been corrected with an increased level of cyanide in the chamber. That would have increased the danger of an explosion also. Perhaps that fear was at the back of Leuchrter's mind? Who knows?

I am not suggesting that the fiendish Nazis would have ever bothered with such sedation.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything athttp://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
There were NO "limited gassings!" There were NO homicidal Nazi Gassings at all!
Please visit and support generously: http://www.Gaschamberhoax.com

[Dresden]

F.P. Berg said:

"I merely suggested that sedation might have been used for American gas executions--and that the longer resulting execution times might have been corrected with an increased level of cyanide in the chamber. That would have increased the danger of an explosion also. Perhaps that fear was at the back of Leuchrter's mind? Who knows?"

If they would have used carbon monoxide(CO) like they do when they put animals to sleep, it would have solved the whole problem.

They could have pumped the air out of the chamber from the bottom, and pumped 40% CO in from the top, and in practically no time, the person would drift off into eternal sleep.

I still don't know why the U.S. didn't use CO for executions.

Maybe it's because they didn't want to treat them like animals.....you know.....humanely.

[borjastick]

Hi Friedrich, No I haven't missed your point entirely or even slightly. I understand what you are saying and agree with you but I was trying (badly) to bring it back to the holocaust. It has often been mentioned that the jews were too compliant at the point of being gassed and seemed to knowingly accept their fate. Many say they knew about the gas chambers and if so why would they have simply filed into one and not put up a fight.

Perhaps there are two opposed possibilities: firstly that of course there were no gas chambers and of course no mass murder in the camps and secondly that they were subdued somehow, which we aren't buying are we?

[hermod]

Wasn't the water fluoridation canard - Debunking the Myth of Water Fluoridation by Hitler and ... - a kind of sedation?