Swimming in Aushwitz!

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 3:04 pm)

Well Neander, I do not trust information provided by Jews, or anyone -- b-l-i-n-d-l-y. Sometimes even Jews do tell the truth. One has to pick and choose carefully what one believes about anything.

Thanks for the info about the "pool" at Birkenau. I will check it out.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 4:34 pm)

I have just looked using Google Earth and I could not find anything that looked even remotely like a water pool "south of the railroad ramp in the BI sector."

There are some water treatment clarifiers and settling tanks outside of the fenced area near one of the Kremas but that is it. There are some clarifiers within the camp North of the Kremas. But, here is nothing visible that fits Neander's description even remotely for the B1 area. Please use Google Earth to check your own statement, Neander.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby GurtKerstein » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:04 pm)

Neander:

They had a Soviet (!) military garrison there, billeted in the blocks formerly used by the SS, and for them they converted the water reservoir into a swimming pool. Like the "gas chamber."


That's a new theory. I never heard about it before. Are you saying that Marc Klein made up an imaginary swimming pool for water Polo matches?

Why is it hard for you to accept that it was indeed a swimming pool? Even the Camp authorities do not claim it was built by the soviets. It is not one bit surprising because there was also a soccer field, a theater and a brothel.

Now, regarding eyewitness testimonies, I don't think any revisionist claims they are all 100% lies. But regarding a swimming pool, there is no incentive for a survivor to make up such a thing, whereas there is plenty of incentive for survivors to inflate their experience and make up atrocity stories - that's the part we put under a microscope because it exaggerates and distorts historic truth. For instance, when Elie Wiesel says he was in Auschwitz, that's most likely true. When he says he was sent to the camp hospital, that's most likely true too. But when he claims that trucks dumped live Jewish babies into fires and marched inmates into open flaming pits - that's where his imagination gets carried away and he becomes a false witness. Now if it was just an imaginary literary piece and marked as such, that would be ok. The problem is that both he and the readers of his books believe that Elie narrates events as they happened. That's where the Lie of Ulysses becomes a distortion of history and therefore needs to be revised, hence revisionism.

Now, you have dissected Irene Munchhausen Zisblatt's story but that even a 8 year old could do (of course with a ridiculous conclusion that it is an "instructive story"). Why don't you tell us what you think of Elie Wiesel's Night? Did the Germans engage in genocide by burning people alive? Where is your courage to do the same analysis to the Pope of the Holocaust?
The Emperor cannot see the cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing. The Emperor holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 5:09 pm)

So, Neander -- where are those "pools" that you said were in the Birkenau B areas south of the ramps?

Image

(click on the image to get an enlarged view)

Or did you simply make up that story?

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 6:25 pm)

Dear Mr. Berg,

is it so difficult for you to address me politely as "Mr." or with my full - first and family - name?
Or is this the "Revisionist way"?

I remember being addressed as "Neander" in the military as a recruit, and I don't have nice memories of it.

Nevertheless I will answer your question. There are two black rectangles, below the ramp, in the BI sector. These should be the firewater ponds. BTW, I've probably been more often at Birkenau than you - I don't live far away and frequently visit the site with friends.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Moderator » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:03 pm)

joachim neander wrote:Dear Mr. Berg, is it so difficult for you to address me politely as "Mr." or with my full - first and family - name?
Mr. Neander:
Indeed, you deserve to be addressed politely. Mr. Berg, please refrain.
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:57 pm)

In response to Joachim Neander,

There are indeed two dark areas on the Google Earth image of Birkenau today which might well be "fire water pools." They are not inside the fenced-off B1a or B1b areas but outside, only 100 feet from the RR track and the ramp. Each rectangle is about 46 feet long and 30 feet wide. The two "pools" are approximately 1100 feet apart.

Image

(click on image for an enlarged view)

In the above images from 1944 which I use on my website one can see both of the "pool" areas. The one on the east side (left in picture) appears to be completely empty.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby neugierig » 1 decade 4 months ago (Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:42 pm)

Herr Neander, why are you a swimming pool denier? Why do you claim the facility to be a water reservoir, when it is obviously a swimming pool? No doubt the water in it would have been used to fight fire, if the need arose, but it was build as a swimming pool, clear for all to see.

By not being able to admit the obvious, by having to perform mental gymnastics and in the process making a fool of yourself, you again demonstrate for all to see that the story you are defending, this horrendous lie, is not based on fact. For if it were, you could accept the swimming pool, that is if you had real evidence to back the mass murder claim. As it is you don’t, the Gaskammern are fictitious, as had been admitted in a press release following the Berlin Gaskammer Konferenz in May of 2008.

Prof. Nolte addresses this syndrome in his debate with Prof. Furet, published as “Fascism & Communism (Feindliche Nähe). He writes:

“But I consider the claim fundamentally false that if the essential is irrefutable, no particular claim need be further examined, and that all the doubts can only come from bad intentions. I think that the core of the matter is threatened when the shell of the discussion is removed, certainly not the factual character of the core, but the rank and importance accorded it.
If the matter had to follow another course, if we insist on the conviction that the smallest fragment torn from the edifice makes the collapse of the whole inevitable and that we must therefore defend all testimony, however debatable, by an appeal to the courts and the police, I am convinced that we would be taking a fatal path[…]”


And this is why True Believers like you, Herr Neander, are forced to make fools of yourselves by trying to prevent that “…the smallest fragment (is) torn from the edifice”, for it would make “…the collapse of the whole inevitable”. You are also demonstrating this by defending this Zisblatt, who is in a state of war with the truth.

I will never understand how any intelligent human being can even consider this Holo-Tale as fact. I am also at a loss as to why people are willing to make fools of themselves by making idiotic claims.

Arme True Believers, armes Deutschland.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 4 months ago (Fri Jan 15, 2010 1:25 pm)

Let me promise you, Mr. Berg, that I will take a photo of one of the fire water reservoirs on my next visit to Birkenau and, if the forum admin will allow, try to post it here. But I cannot promise you to do it quickly. I just was there three weeks ago, and I go there only when I have guests who want to see the camp and ask me to be their guide. I normally do my work at the archives which are in Auschwitz I, and I don't have a car, so I must rely on public transport, which takes much time (mostly for waiting).

@ a question from another poster: AFAIK there are no extant camp documents about the fire water reservoirs. It was (and is) however mandatory in Germany to have fire insurance for every building. KL Auschwitz was situated within the borders of the German Reich and so subject to German law (not to military law, such as occupied countries). IIRC the camp buildings were insured at Allianz, the biggest German insurance company. Insurance companies have their own regulations, determining what the owner has to do to prevent fire, otherwise they won't pay. They demand e.g. lightning conductors, or minimum distances between arrays of wooden huts. They can also demand fire water ponds, if there is no high-pressure, high output plumbing (hydrants), as it was the case at Auschwitz. Such were and are the rules, and it had not be explicitly written down in every case. They are standardized and appear in the "fine prints" added to all insurance contracts. But maybe there are documents re. Auschwitz in the Allianz archives. I don't know.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby muller » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:03 am)

The Aushwitz pool has a length of 25m (82 ft) and a width of 7.50m (24 ft). That was the minimum pool size for official sports events: 4 times 25m are 100m, and 7.50m are just sufficient for 3 persons to swim side by side without hampering each other. There is no doubt that the pool was planned as a swimming pool which could occasionally be used for swimming competitions.
A water reservoir for fire brigades is something quite different. There were thousands of them in Germany during the war. The principle is to have a maximum of water volume with a minimum of concrete and rebars. The walls are not vertical but inclined under a rather flat angle. Inclined walls are not subject to bending stresses caused by water pressure; they need only a minimum of reinforcing bars. Length and width are about the same, provided there is sufficient space, since the ratio water surface : length of walls is a maximum if the pool is an exact square ( instead of a simple rectangle). The Mauthausen pool shown on Malle's comment is obviously constructed according to these principles.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:30 am)

Thank you, Muller for that extremely helpful post. It helps to have another engineer or architect on board.

A thought which occurs to me also is that sloping sides would actually be a serious hazard for any swimming pool especially near the edges. This is because as people would try to step out of the pool, they would be very likely to slip on algae-covered surfaces under the water.

BTW, the structures, including the railroad delousing tunnels, are extremely important because they let us look into the minds, literally, of the German designers and planners--and show us what they were thinking, and how they actually solved problems at the time. The idea, advanced by Juergen Graf and GurtKerstein, that these issues are somehow "irrelevant" or insignificant leaves us entirely at the mercy of the courtroom hoaxers who have led us by the nose since the war. When one sees what the Germans were actually thinking--one also sees that the holocaust claims are rubbish. The "technical" issues unravel the HOAX.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby GurtKerstein » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 12:04 pm)

Berg:

The idea, advanced by Juergen Graf and GurtKerstein, that these issues are somehow "irrelevant" or insignificant leaves us entirely at the mercy of the courtroom hoaxers who have led us by the nose since the war


You're mixing things up. I did not say that about the swimming pool. All you need to do is go to the beginning of this thread and see I was the first one to roast Mr. Neander who came up with a unique proposition that the "water reservoir built by the Germans was converted to a swimming pool by the Soviets for Soviet troops".

What most people on this board agreed on is that your hypothetical question about the delousing tunnels for trains (an interesting and important discovery nonetheless) is irrelevant.
The Emperor cannot see the cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing. The Emperor holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby muller » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:39 pm)

Water reservoirs for fire brigades are needed only if there is no natural water supply like rivers, creeks, large natural ponds etc. In Aushwitz, the Vistula and several of its tributaries were not far away. Moreover, the ground water level in Aushwitz was high, only about 1m below the surface, as we are told in a lot of sources. For tapping that ground water, all you had to do was excavating a pit 2 to 3m deep and 4m wide, and you had all the water you needed. These small pits would have disappeared today, and that is perhaps the reason why we do not see any big reservoirs in Google' photos.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Malle » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:43 pm)

muller wrote:The Aushwitz pool has a length of 25m (82 ft) and a width of 7.50m (24 ft).


When I measured the pool on Google Earth with a ruler it looks like the width is more like 6 m (19.6 ft.) then 7.5 m. However, the length seems to be correct.

muller wrote:Water reservoirs for fire brigades are needed only if there is no natural water supply like rivers, creeks, large natural ponds etc. In Aushwitz, the Vistula and several of its tributaries were not far away.


Good point. On Google Earth it's about 48 m (160 ft.) from the north-east border of Auschwitz I to the Sola River. Auschwitz I had fire post system as showed in this picture (this fire post is 15 m (49 ft.) from the pool):

Image

It seems natural that the water was coming from Sola River.
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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 17, 2010 8:09 pm)

GurtKerstein is confusing everything and wrote the following:

You're mixing things up. I did not say that about the swimming pool. All you need to do is go to the beginning of this thread and see I was the first one to roast Mr. Neander who came up with a unique proposition that the "water reservoir built by the Germans was converted to a swimming pool by the Soviets for Soviet troops".

What most people on this board agreed on is that your hypothetical question about the delousing tunnels for trains (an interesting and important discovery nonetheless) is irrelevant.


The delousing tunnels for trains would be irrelevant, just as GurtKerstein insists--if we were only interested in the guilt, or innocence, of a particular SS man on trial for mass murder. Courtrooms do try to focus on the accused--except where the "holocaust" is concerned. When the "holocaust" is involved, suddenly the issue becomes one of "educating" the public as well. This forum is not a courtroom and this is not merely a trial. This forum is part of something much better and bigger. Most of us are interested in understanding (Vergangenheitsbeaeltigung) what was really going on generally at Auschwitz. Although that is also the supposed purpose of the entire category of show trials since WW2, the methods used in those trials are fraudulent. They are rigged to make anti-Nazi, anti-German propaganda and to hamstring revisionists.

To understand the bigger picture, one has to consider the railroad delousing tunnels. The very same railroad cars that transported thousands of Hungarian Jews from Budapest to Auschwitz were routinely fumigated with Zyklon-B and cyanide without Jews in them, in Budapest itself. Why didn't they simply fumigate the RR cars with Jews in them? The railroad delousing tunnels also show us what the Zyklon-B technology really involved and how it was actually used by the very same people who were, supposedly, deeply involved, day-to-day, in the mass murder of Jews. The RR delousing technology was thoroughly described in the German technical literature, several times, and was even promoted with many advertisements that appeared in all of the related technical literature. Bruno Tesch, a genuine technical expert, would have known all about the RR tunnels. Tesch was actually hung for his supposed complicity in the homicidal use of Zyklon-B which he sold. To insist that the RR delousing issue is "irrelevant" is asinine. To insist that the RR delousing tunnels could not possibly have been used for mass murder is i-n-s-a-n-e.

By the false logic of GurtKerstein, the swimming pool at Auschwitz might also be "irrelevant." It is not even claimed the pool was involved in mass murder. So, why bother? The reason the swimming pool issue is important is that it undermines the holocaust mythology. GurtKerstein understands that but denies the relevance of the RR delousing technology. COOKOO!!! :scratch:

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.


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