Swimming in Aushwitz!

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proxyserver
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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby proxyserver » 1 decade 4 months ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:50 pm)

Inquisitive wrote:movie I just came across from 2008.............posting mostly because of the title. Wonder if they show the pool?
Swimming in Auschwitz (2008)
Synopsis:
Filmmaker Jon Kean explores an aspect of the Holocaust left largely unexplored in the annals of history with this look at six women who survived incarceration in the most notorious concentration camp of all. While male testimonies concerning the unimaginable hardships of living in Auschwitz have been well documented, the experiences of women who were forced to endure the exact same physical conditions have been curiously omitted from public record. By documenting the grueling hardships experienced by six women who came to Auschwitz from locations all over Europe, Kean highlights the unbreakable spirit of the survivors who refused to give up hope no matter how grim their circumstances became. Separated from their families, forced into cramped trains for three days with no food or water, and subsequently stripped, shaved, and tattooed before being forced to sleep outside while their quarters were prepared and the smell of crematoria filled the night air, nine out of ten women didn't even survive the initial stages of internment. For those who did, however, things would get much worse before they got better; emotional survival was nearly as difficult as physical survival. Now, for the first time on film, their remarkable stories are told from the years preceding World War II, to the notorious death marches that followed their stay in Auschwitz, the ultimate experience of liberation, and the memories that would haunt them for decades after their harrowing ordeal.

http://www.hollywood.com/movie/Swimming ... tz/5229147

Is there no end to the evil? And yet they survive :D


What I would like to know is if this film is about to released generally in cinemas, although it was made in 2008 (I would have noticed it over the last few years if it has already been shown). And what sort of film is it? That is, is it a straight documentary, or some sort of fictionalised account supposedly based on real life. If anyone here has already seen it, does it have anything to say about alleged homicidal gas chambers? Of course, there have been many films about the Holocaust in recent years, which promote what Thomas Dalton would call the traditionalist view, because, as most posters here would realise, it is necessary not to alienate public support for Israel, and Hollywood plays a big role in this. And furthermore, is the word "Swimming" actually referring to swimming pools or is it a metaphor for life in Auschwitz?

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Pappy Yokum » 1 decade 4 months ago (Sun Jan 24, 2010 7:49 pm)

I would like to thank Mister Joachim Neander for identifying those two black rectangles just south of the rail spur in Birkenau. I have looked at the air photos for many years and I have wondered what they were. Now I know they are water reservoirs for fire fighting. That is just another bit of information to add to the collection.

Does anyone know how they were to be used? Would there be a bucket brigade handing water down a line from the reservoir to the location of the fire, or would there be a truck with a hose and pump to communicate the water to the fire? Were both possibilities? I can see why the sloped sides would be in the design if a bucket brigade were used. It would be easier to get the water out for a person with a bucket.

Their placement indicates to me that water to fill them was transported in rather than a ground water well pump or a pipeline was used. Is this right?
Didn't putting fences on either side of them make them difficult to access?

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby illegalalien » 1 decade 4 months ago (Mon Jan 25, 2010 10:08 am)

Water reservoirs in Birkenau:

Image
Image
Photos from the Auschwitz Museum site http://en.auschwitz.org.pl

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:33 pm)

muller wrote:Water reservoirs for fire brigades are needed only if there is no natural water supply like rivers, creeks, large natural ponds etc. In Aushwitz, the Vistula and several of its tributaries were not far away. Moreover, the ground water level in Aushwitz was high, only about 1m below the surface, as we are told in a lot of sources. For tapping that ground water, all you had to do was excavating a pit 2 to 3m deep and 4m wide, and you had all the water you needed. These small pits would have disappeared today, and that is perhaps the reason why we do not see any big reservoirs in Google' photos.


You seem to confuse the main camp with Birkenau. Birkenau was set up in a swampy region and had to be drained by deep rows dug by the prisoners. They made the actual water table sink to about 3-4 m below the surface. Birkenau with its dense covering by wooden huts demanded fire water reservoirs for insurance reasons. Some of them still today can be seen.

Near the main camp, there were the Auschwitz water works that extracted ground water for the town, the camp, and the industrial district in such a way that the Zentralbauleitung in a paper (somewhere reproduced at CODOH and quoted by Carlo Mattogno) complained about a sinking of the ground water table threatening the water supply. The Sola river was about 150 to 250 m away from the camp perimeter, and still farther away from important buildings, such as the kitchen or the prisoner reception. The prisoner (!) fire brigade had no modern pumps, so the distance, in case of emergency, would have been to big to get water. Therefore the main camp also needed a fire water reservoir, which the Russians after the war converted into a swimming pool for themselves. Or do you believe that the Russians/Poles would have left something from German times that today's Revisionists could use as an argument against the purpose of Auschwitz as a Nazi extermination camp?

(Edited the distance from the camp fence to the river, taken from a map.)
Last edited by joachim neander on Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:39 pm)

Malle,
the "fire posts" you show in your post are a late post-war addition, made necessary at the time when Auschwitz I (the main camp) was transformed into a museum with archives, library, editorial, and visitors relations departments and numerous exhibition buildings. The same, BTW, as the central heating in the former "blocks" now used as offices or exhibition space.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Malle » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:47 am)

joachim neander wrote:Malle,
the "fire posts" you show in your post are a late post-war addition, made necessary at the time when Auschwitz I (the main camp) was transformed into a museum with archives, library, editorial, and visitors relations departments and numerous exhibition buildings. The same, BTW, as the central heating in the former "blocks" now used as offices or exhibition space.


On a direct question to the personal at Auschwitz when I was visiting the site in 2001 the answer was that the “fire-posts” was wartime. If you have other information or evidence, please bring it forward.
I must be a mushroom - because everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me with lots of bullshit.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Pappy Yokum » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:57 am)

joachim neander wrote:Near the main camp, there were the Auschwitz water works that extracted ground water for the town, the camp, and the industrial district in such a way that the Zentralbauleitung in a paper (somewhere reproduced at CODOH and quoted by Carlo Mattogno) complained about a sinking of the ground water table threatening the water supply. The Sola river was about 50 m away from the camp perimeter, and still farther away from important buildings, such as the kitchen or the prisoner reception. The prisoner (!) fire brigade had no modern pumps, so the distance, in case of emergency, would have been to big to get water. Therefore the main camp also needed a fire water reservoir, which the Russians after the war converted into a swimming pool for themselves. Or do you believe that the Russians/Poles would have left something from German times that today's Revisionists could use as an argument against the purpose of Auschwitz as a Nazi extermination camp?


It is an interesting proposition that the Russians converted the reservoir to a swimming pool for themselves, but I don't accept that based on the argument the Communists would not have left something that would not reflect badly on the Germans. That simply doesn't fit the pattern. The pattern is to leave it and to lie about it. Removing it would simply be too much work. The pool was not on the tour, so why remove it? [There is nothing to see here. Let's go over to the execution wall and have a good cry instead.]

About 15 or so years ago a convent was set up in the Auschwitz theater building. Some American Jews got very upset that some Catholic nuns had set up residence on their sacred ground. They especially didn't like the big cross that was planted there.

The building was a theater. It was obviously a theater. It was used as such under the Nazis. Well, admitting there was a theater at the notorious Nazi death camp simply would not do. The press said it used to be a Zyklon B warehouse. And they reported it with a straight face. When Ditlieb Felderer asked his tour guide about it years before. Hhe was told it was a place where the Germans dumped garbage. He entered the building later when not being watched and found old pianos and other musical instruments inside.

There are a couple of air photos from 1944 and 1945 that suggest the diving tower and starting blocks were there at that time though that might be debatable because the resolution of the pictures is not quite good enough to say that with a lot of confidence.

It is also interesting that when the Auschwitz museum decided to spend money restoring the fire fighting reservoir a few years ago that they restored it to a communist era state - leaving the swimmer dive tower - rather than removing it so as not to give the wrong impression.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:48 pm)

@ PappyYokum:
The building was a theater. It was obviously a theater. It was used as such under the Nazis. Well, admitting there was a theater at the notorious Nazi death camp simply would not do.

Well, the building was indeed built as an officers' mess by the Polish Army which, after WW I, transformed the former Austrian transit camp for immigrants from Galicia (Auschwitz/Oswiecim was a border town between the Austro-Hungarian and the German empires until 1919) into an artillery barracks. Since this building had an auditorium with a stage, it was called "the theater building."
When in May 1940, the SS took over the former Polish artillery barracks from the Wehrmacht and set up a concentration camp there, they used the "theater building" as an ordnance depot for their own purposes. It was never used for theater performances at that time. After the war, it was used as a warehouse for storing property left by the Germans. It is therefore not surprising that someone later found there a piano.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 months ago (Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:59 pm)

@ Malle:
On a direct question to the personal at Auschwitz when I was visiting the site in 2001 the answer was that the “fire-posts” was wartime. If you have other information or evidence, please bring it forward.

I have my information also only from a staff member. Maybe your information is correct. At any rate, the site was used between 1919 and 1939 by the Polish Army as an artillery barracks, and it is possible that they installed a fire water supply there. I am not an expert in the building history of Auschwitz. Perhaps Carlo Mattogno knows more?

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Inquisitive » 1 decade 3 months ago (Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:51 am)

proxyserver wrote:
What I would like to know is if this film is about to released generally in cinemas, although it was made in 2008 (I would have noticed it over the last few years if it has already been shown). And what sort of film is it? That is, is it a straight documentary, or some sort of fictionalised account supposedly based on real life.

You can find the information here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0956313/
Six Jewish women, from different countries and different backgrounds, found themselves deported to the notorious concentration camp, Auschwitz-Birkenau, during the Holocaust. This film attempts to chronicle that experience through those same female eyes. While subject to the same physical hardships as men, these women do not dwell on that. Instead, they speak of camp families and faith, uplifting one another while trying to remain human. It was this path of spiritual resistance that, while not responsible for their direct survival, led to their ability to survive with healthy minds and spirits despite the constant barrage of their surroundings. Swimming in Auschwitz gives us a perspective of the camp, its surroundings and the Holocaust that we need to understand and remember, so that we never forget. Written by Jon Kean


It is also floating (no pun intended) around cable on PBS stations. It was on the other day but I missed it.

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Pappy Yokum » 1 decade 1 month ago (Sat Apr 03, 2010 4:16 pm)

joachim neander wrote:Sorry, I'm afraid somebody is very naive here.
First, if you've read CODOH posts you should know that that which we see today at Auschwitz is all faked: gas chamber, gallows, death wall, etc. Does nobody know here that the Soviets ran a forced labor camp for Germans on the premises of Auschwitz until spring 1947? That they used the camp as a transit camp for German POWs and Silesian civilians who were to be deported to Siberia? They had a Soviet (!) military garrison there, billeted in the blocks formerly used by the SS, and for them they converted the water reservoir into a swimming pool. Like the "gas chamber."
Second, since when do Revisionists believe in the thruthworthyness of "inmate memoirs"? Haven't all those inmates with their "memoirs" been debunked at CODOH as lie witnesses?
Go figure!


I for one have read quite a few of the memoirs published in English. Since the vast majority of them do not claim to have personally seen a gas chamber, the bulk of the recollections are probably accurate - with some self-serving nonsense added to explain why they worked for the Nazi war effort instead of fighting it.

I am willing to repudiate as untrustworthy recollections of inmates enjoying recreational activities at Auschwitz/Birkenau despite there being a swimming pool, a brothel, a theater, an athletic field, etc., at the camps, if you are willing to abandon as untrustworthy accounts of homicidal gas chambers for which there is no physical evidence whatsoever. Would that be a fair trade?

As for the Soviets adding the swimming pool features to a fire fighting reservoir, could someone provide some evidence for that - like Soviet work orders for the addition of the diving blocks, etc.?

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Hektor » 8 years 4 months ago (Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:08 am)

Pappy Yokum wrote:...As for the Soviets adding the swimming pool features to a fire fighting reservoir, could someone provide some evidence for that - like Soviet work orders for the addition of the diving blocks, etc.?

I don't think so, this sounds like grasping for straws. It seems the believers are anxious about that swimming pool and come up with all kind of excuses:
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... hwitz.html

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby SKcz » 8 years 4 months ago (Fri Jan 06, 2012 9:08 am)

joachim neander wrote:They had a Soviet (!) military garrison there, billeted in the blocks formerly used by the SS, and for them they converted the water reservoir into a swimming pool. Like the "gas chamber."


C01. I challenge you to prove that alleged reservoir was converted to swimming pool by Soviets after the war. If you don´t have any proofs, try to explain to me why the Soviets converted it to swimming pool? For what purpose? It doesn´t make any sense. Converting swimming pool to water reservoir by Soviets after the war to cover presence of swimming pool, this make sense. I would expect the water reservoir in more practical place in the camp. Also, the testimonies are against you, according too former prisoner Marc Klein:

"On Sunday afternoons, there were soccer, basketball and water polo matches to the ardent cheers of the spectators: people need very little to distract them from the dangers that threatened them! The SS administration allowed regular amusements for the prisoners, even on weekdays. A movie theater showed Nazi newsreels and sentimental films and a very popular cabaret gave presentations often attended by the SS authorities. Finally, there was a very creditable orchestra, made up originally only of Polish musicians and replaced later by a new, high-quality group made up of musicians of all nationalities, mostly Jews"

(Marc Klein, “Observations et réflexions sur les camps de concentration nazis”, taken from the journal Études germaniques (No. 3, 1946), 1948, p. 31).

"Auschwitz I was made up of 28 blocks built of stone laid out in three parallel rows between which ran paved streets. A third street ran the length of the quadrangle and was planted with birch trees, the Birkenhaller intended as a walkway for the detainees, with benches; there also was an open air swimming pool"

(booklet of 32 pages printed in Caen, 1948, p. 10; its text is a reproduction of the author's article published in Etudes germaniques, n° 3, 1948, pp. 244-275).


I also remember testimony of former prisoner, who was swimming competitor and he was allowed to train in the swimming pool, but I don´t have source so if somebody know this story, please let me know. I forgot where I saw it.

C02. I challenge you to tell me if Marc Klein lied and tell me why he lied.
joachim neander wrote:Dear Mr. Berg, did you forget what CODOH revealed: that Google is Jewish? Since when do you believe in information from a Jewish source?


Wrong, there is no logical explanation why the exterminationist jews themselves would lie about information which contradict orthodox theory. C03. I challenge you to provide me with explanation why they are lying about swimming pool which were originally water reservoir according to you.

joachim neander wrote:They had a Soviet (!) military garrison there, billeted in the blocks formerly used by the SS, and for them they converted the water reservoir into a swimming pool. Like the "gas chamber."
Second, since when do Revisionists believe in the thruthworthyness of "inmate memoirs"? Haven't all those inmates with their "memoirs" been debunked at CODOH as lie witnesses?
Go figure!


Wrong, this is strawman. Revisionists don´t say, that every memoir or testimony is a priori untrue, they are true or untrue after critical analyis. Since there is no logical explanation why the prisoners lie about presence o swimming pool and material evidence (presence of this pool in camp) support their memoirs, the only conclusion is - they are telling true, swimming pool is real and have no sinister meaning, end of controversy.

The wildest excuse which I have ever saw was from one believer who claimed, that pool was full of acid for sure.

edit - minor errors

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby ovd1965 » 7 years 3 weeks ago (Sun May 05, 2013 10:10 am)

When Mr Neander claims the Russians have "converted" it into a pool , I do not believe it would have this "Design"....

I am from Eastgermany ; during my life and especially during my time as an NVA-Officer I have seen many Areas/buildings
in Germany occupied by the Russians and "converted" for their purposes / to their "taste" ....

They would have used this "Basin" as found ! if it could be used as found , they would have never invested / wasted time ,labour and material... to change something

Anyone who have ever seen a russian military barrack area would thing the same..........

starting blocks ?? fixed mounted ladder ?? all decadent useless nonsens .............

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Re: Swimming in Aushwitz!

Postby Hektor » 7 years 3 weeks ago (Wed May 08, 2013 10:17 am)

We all can be pretty sure that the item in question was a swimming pool, before 1945. Ac tually there are even a number of witnesses that confirm it as well. Marc Klein is one whose name I remember.


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