Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:02 am)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 70221.html

I especially liked the following:
His jobs included polishing SS men's boots, sorting the clothes and shaving the hair off naked women prisoners before they were driven into gas chambers pumped full of exhaust fumes. It took up to 40 minutes for those inside to die. "We heard the whine of the generator that started the s-u-b-m-a-r-i-n-e engine which made the gas that killed them. I remember standing and listening to the muffled screams and knowing that men, women and children were dying in agony as I sorted their clothes. This is what I live with," he said.


Blatt is obviously no tech freak or else he would know that no one in the entire world uses a generator to start an engine--with or without any whining. And any submarine engine in the world would have been a ONLY diesel engine, and NOT a gasoline engine. Diesel engines are routinely used to drive generators to provide emergency electric power on a short term basis. So , there may well be truth to the claim about a diesel engine at Sobibor--but then, to use the diesel exhaust to gas people to death is completely cookoo. See my essays.

It would be nice to see the prosecutors in Munich try to make the case for the diesel exhaust hoax. It would be even better if the defense team would challenge the diesel story--but from past experience, they will merely insist that John Demjanjuk was never there.

In just the past few minutes, I found the following holocaust-denial video which is also excellent:

http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/blatt/

When the Nazis put Thomas Blatt in a concentration camp, they certainly had the right idea. That is where he belongs today!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2466
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:10 am)

Well maybe he is an "tech freak" or someone who knows about stuff like that, because for a living he ran a chain of electronics stores in Santa Barbara, California.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/world/A ... 26596.html

Reinhard
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 7:20 pm)

Adolf Eichmann told the same absurd story of a Soviet submarine diesel engine in his trial in Israel:

http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/videos/28_confessing_germans_2.wmv (Min 07:30)

Unnecessary to say that the German forces never captured a Soviet submarine. I don't know if a Soviet submarine engine has been captured e.g. in a factory or on a railway waggon somewhere on a railway line or station, but if so it certainly would have been the German Navy who would have put their hands on it for technical investigation. Moreover such an engine has the dimensions of a truck trailer. How should they have unloaded that huge engine in Sobibor? You can't just put it on the ground there and start it, you would have to construct e.g. concrete foundations, etc. And then the whole installation would be highly inefficient to produce the carbon monoxide for the supposed killings.
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
Orwell 1984

GurtKerstein
Member
Member
Posts: 51
Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2009 11:33 pm

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby GurtKerstein » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:20 pm)

Here is an interesting anecdote About Blatt:

http://history1900s.about.com/od/holoca ... obibor.htm

When Toivi Blatt, one of the very few survivors of the camp, approached a "well-known survivor of Auschwitz" in 1958 with a manuscript he had written about his experiences, he was told, "You have a tremendous imagination. I've never heard of Sobibor and especially not of Jews revolting there."


For once I agree with that "well known survivor of Auschwitz".

So when did the Sobibor legend emerge? Apparently up until the late 50's, 15 years after the fact, nobody even heard of it (I assume that if the "well known Holocaust survivor never heard of it, nobody did).
The Emperor cannot see the cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing. The Emperor holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Jan 20, 2010 10:01 am)

Here's a newer and somewhat different twist on the Thomas Blatt diesel story:

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/world/H ... 5995937.jp

After sorting through the clothes of arriving victims, he was left with piles of passports, love letters, birth certificates, bank account statements and greeting cards taken from those about to die. He burned them in a pit, as the people they once belonged to burned on the "roasts" – huge funeral pyres constructed on iron rails and fuelled with diesel oil that sat next to the gas chamber.


The diesel fuel supposedly came from next to the "gas chamber" and was used to help burn the bodies. Diesel fuel does NOT ignite easily at all. Throw a burning match into a pan of diesel fuel and it will NOT ignite. Gasoline, by contrast, will ignite almost instantly. Try to use diesel fuel to ignite some charcoal briquettes and you will go hungry.

"Dear Mr. Blatt, could you please tell us how you know the diesel fuel came from "next to the gas chamber"? Could you please tell us how you know that it really was diesel fuel? Could you please tell us what you know about that diesel engine? Could you please tell us how you know that it even was a diesel engine?"

If transcripts are ever available for this trail (which I doubt), we will discover that common sense questions like the above were never even asked. The purpose of the trial is NOT truth or understanding, it is merely another anti-German propaganda show for the Jews.

The diesel claim is still there but only far in the background. No one seems to be asking anything at all about that diesel engine that was supposedly used to make the gas that killed hundreds of thousands of Jews. Gee, I wonder why?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Reinhard
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:30 pm

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Jan 20, 2010 7:03 pm)

Today (noon and early afternoon) it was mentioned several times in a Bavarian radio news channel that Blatt in today's court session, when questioned on his former testimonies given years or even decades ago, answered repeatedly »I don't remember«.

According to this report, he said in today's court session, »he never saw the gas chambers, but he saw how dead bodies were being burnt«.

This broadcasting was about 12 hours ago, but unfortunately I can't find those quotations in the internet, e.g. on Google.

Seems as if the mind police has »cleaned« the net immediately.
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«

Orwell 1984

Drew J
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:13 am

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Drew J » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:12 am)

Blatt is claiming a diesel engine was used for murder. That's funny. I thought Roberto and Sergy already declared the diesel engine moot and were instead trying to focus on petrol engines as the real culprit instead.

FLASHBACK:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5725
Drew JBecause in your own view, the diesel issue is dead. Since you missed it, let me show you where I summarized Sergy's list of witnesses and then further showed how full of shit and problematic they were. With the help of Mr. Burg of course.

viewtopic.php?p=38258#p38258


I've looked at this junk

Keep in mind I have only summarized Sergy's blog and they are still Sergy's words and claims. So it's ironic Muehlenkamp would call them junk. A little too quick with the keyboard perhaps, Roberto?

and didn't see anything resembling a demonstration that knowledgeable eyewitnesses who mentioned gassing with gasoline engines were in any way unreliable

As I have said, thanks to Sergy's blog and your work you have shown that the diesel issue is dead because anyone who claimed a diesel engine didn't actually see it whereas the ones who are actually in a poistion to see it never mentioned a diesel engine but rather petrol engines. Now if you take these claims in isolation, they seem okay. But check them against available evidence (you keep saying I don't know to Treblinka questions) and they turn problematic.

or that witnesses who mentioned diesel engines were necessarily wrong about everything they described or even about anything other than the type of engine.

Here's the trick Roberto does. Admit that Sergy is right that the diesel engine is dead and then say, "They were wrong about the engine but maybe they were right about dimensions or sizes or something else about the engine." Sorry but that contradicts the spirit of Sergy's blog entry when he AND YOU have also claimed to me that anyone who claimed a diesel engine never actually saw it. Well if they saw it, then there is no reason to suspect they could have possibly been correct about anything else about it. How could they be if they never saw it? Sorry Roberto, we're not falling for your holocaustianity tricks there.

What I did see was a hysterical little whiner so pathetically obsessed with me that he sees me as the author of every blog written on HC (even blogs written by my fellow contributor Jonathan Harrison) and so gullible as to applaud his buddy Greg "Pepper" Gerdes' lies about my answers in past discussions to Gerdes' imbecilic and irrelevant questions. Nothing I would brag about in Drew J's place.

If we don't respond to Muehlenkamp, we are cowards. If we do, we have a psychological disorder. Damned if we do. Damned if we don't. Someone who is trying to rig the game like that is obviously afraid of something. Probably the things that Gerdes pointed out such as his continuous I DON'T KNOW answers and his inability to get Skeptic or Archaeology magazines to take his evidence seriously.

Apparently Drew J thinks that he is the one who gets to set standards of evidence, or then he doesn't have the foggiest how "physical, empirical matters of fact" are shown in real life and namely in historiography and criminal justice.

Big words. Care to define them a little more precisely?

What does he want me to "show"? The evidence I am referring to? That I have done many times by quoting eyewitness depositions,

Such as the ones who claimed a diesel engine was used but that they never saw it as Sergy had to admit? Or how about those two Ukranian guards Leleko and Malakon who were obviously fed the line about diesel engines since as Sergy's blog entry admits, diesel engines wouldn't have been practical for murder. This is logically consistent with the extermination theorists' own view that those who were in a position to see the engines actually mentioned petrol and not diesel in their depositions. Naturally, Muehlenkamp didn't want to deal with these two guards who were fed the lie so he skipped it and ignored it when I brought it up.


As for the petrol issue, that was criticized as well here.

Poison Gas: Another Fuel for Motor Transport
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5693

Wahrheit
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:42 pm

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 8:43 am)

Drew J wrote:Blatt is claiming a diesel engine was used for murder. That's funny. I thought Roberto and Sergy already declared the diesel engine moot and were instead trying to focus on petrol engines as the real culprit instead.


If Blatt admits to not having seen the gas chamber, but to hearing its "whine," how can one expect to draw major conclusions from his testimony regarding the alleged engine-type?

Also, I don't see how Blatt's testimony contradicts Roberto and Sergey's argument---people who were more involved with the gassing operation say petrol, while less direct witnesses are more inclined to say diesel (not always). As Blatt was not majorily involved in the exterminations, whats the big deal? Also, as he states "submarine" engine, it's not clear that he knew the distinction either (that he knew that a submarine engine ran on diesel).

Drew J
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:13 am

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Drew J » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:13 pm)

Okay, fair enough. Blatt is wrong about the engine. As I said in Poison Gas: Another Fuel For Motor Transport,
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5693
let's say the inmates got it wrong since diesel for murder is scientifically absurd. Are there not also problems with the claim of petrol engines? How does one deal with those? I asked that question months ago and no one seemed to want to touch it. They just seemed comfortable sticking with the, "They said diesel. But there was no diesel. Ergo that's the end of it," way of thinking.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 1:47 pm)

"One deals with those" by looking at:

http://rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10392?page=11

The discussion of color begins much earlier than page 11 on that unmentionable site near the end of the thread about Demjanjuk. The discussion about BLUE versus RED coloring has actually been going on for years. The exterminatiionist arguments are without any merit. Now, thanks to internet imaging, the case is quite dramatic--and it undermines the entire extermination case about the AR camps.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigasings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Wahrheit
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:42 pm

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:22 pm)

Drew J wrote:Are there not also problems with the claim of petrol engines? How does one deal with those? I asked that question months ago and no one seemed to want to touch it. They just seemed comfortable sticking with the, "They said diesel. But there was no diesel. Ergo that's the end of it," way of thinking.


Drew, what do you mean by "problems with the claim of petrol engines"? Or could you send me the link to your thread?

AFAIK, it is widely acknowledged that petrol/gasoline engines can kill, whereas diesel would have been problematic, at best.

Also FPB, your link does not work.

Drew J
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Jun 04, 2009 12:13 am

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Drew J » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:28 pm)

Try doing it this way Friedrich.
http://r odohforum.yuku.com/topic/7908/t/Lunatic-Gerdes-on-Auschwitz-Death-Toll.html

Nevermind I found it. Here is page two.
http:// rodohforum.yuku.com/topic/10392/t/DEMJANJUK-Scapegoat-for-Jewish-Madness.html?page=2

Wahrheit
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 237
Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:42 pm

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Jan 28, 2010 5:10 pm)

Correction to Mr. Berg.

Sergey Romanov contacted Blatt regarding his quotes in the news article, specifically regarding the engine-type. Blatt responded as such:

Dear Mr. Romanov

This is the first time I heard about submarine engine in Sobibor.
It was a Tank engine.
Must be a mistake by the journalist.


http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... -sets.html

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2466
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Re: Thomas Blatt heard the diesel engine at Sobibor

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Jan 29, 2010 1:22 am)

I wonder if that's what The Independent journalist Tony Paterson would say: the journalist who interviewed him. He probably recorded it. Since Blatt is an obvious fake, and submarine engine is sometimes the story, it wouldn't surprise me if Blatt screwed up.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests