Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

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RevisionistHM
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Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby RevisionistHM » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:51 pm)

Hi all.

For my class, I have to write a diary with a few entries on life in the Warsaw ghetto. I have to write it as if I was living in the ghetto at the time and include some events on what was happening. I have to include the "massive deportation" from July 22, 1942 and some other events in the entries.

I dont know much about the Warsaw ghetto besides what I have been told, so is there any information that I could put into the entries about the ghetto life? I, personally, from the movie UPRISING that we are watching, dont see how the ghettos were that bad but that is just me. She tells us that they were extremely bad and very horrible conditions, so anything that I can put it that would like make the ghetto life sound either better than it was (refute how bad it supposedly is) and stuff.

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question but I just want to try and show that the life in the ghettos were not as bad as she is making it appear, but I could be completely wrong in this thinking and maybe the ghetto life was really that bad.

I hope you all can help me. Once again, sorry if this was foolish to ask.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:22 pm)

There's so much Jewish Underground propaganda about the ghettos, and so many lies that it's really hard to know what they were like. Most people are comfortable focusing on the ghetto uprising which is full of falsehoods, but putting that aside and wondering what the ghetto was like is hard to get the right answer. There were Jews who worked full-time there. Factories like "Toebbens." Yet then you'll hear that everyone was starving. Then you hear about a self governing Jewish council "Judenrat" and a Jewish Police force. Then you hear that American Jewish organizations offered very little aid, and suddenly not a lot makes sense. The USHMM.org has rare video footage of the Warsaw ghetto that looks very normal. I don't know.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby holographic » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:24 am)

Greetings RevisionistHM. Confused a little? take heart my friend; SO IS RAUL HILBERG. Consider this..."Everything depended upon the Jews moving along an assembly line, the product of which was murder. For the most part, the Jews were incapable of acting otherwise. Outbreaks did happen, he acknowledges, but these were almost always 'local occurences that transpired at the last moment.' How does he explain this reaction? Hilberg assumes that this response was peculiarly Jewish and can be traced to 'a 2,000-year old experience.' Throughout their long period of exile, 'the Jews had always been a minority, always in danger, but had learned that they could avert or survive destruction by placating and appeasing their enemies.' Having responded in this manner for so many centuries, the Jews could not act otherwise when confronted by Nazism. 'A 2,000 year old lesson could not be unlearned; the Jews could not make the switch. They were helpless.'"
-The Holocaust In History, chap.6 The Victims, p. 109, citing Raul Hilberg, The Destruction Of The European Jews, rev. ed (New York, 1985) , III, 1030-31, 1038-39

(i.e history teaches that Jews learn nothing from history, yet have a peculiar knack of rising out of the "ghetto" and into positions of prominence; particularly in high finance and ENTERTAINMENT?) :D WHO KNEW!?!?!

At the beginning of his book Hilberg makes a curious observation that appears to qualify his assessment: "it should be emphasized again that the term 'Jewish reactions' refers only to ghetto Jews. This reaction pattern was born in the ghetto and it will die there. It is part and parcel of ghetto life. It applies to ALL ghetto Jews - assimilationists and Zionists, the capitalists and the socialists, the unorthodox and the religious." It is not clear what Hilberg means by "ghetto Jews" in this context, but the term seems to apply to all Jews whose reactions he examines."
-The Holocaust in History, footnotes to chap. 6, p.224-5

Now...I generallly loathe the use of expletives...but, ah....WTF!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! :D

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Jan 31, 2010 7:41 am)

Finding out exactly what conditions where in the Warsaw Ghetto and daily life is going to be quite a challenge.

Some facts can come out. From September 1939 until December of 1941, relief aid from the United States and International Red Cross arrived in Poland via the Commission for Polish Relief, initiated and led by former American president Herbert Hoover. The Hoover Institution at Stanford University has substantial and easily retrieved documents on this, as well as the International Red Cross, and such aid as went to the Warsaw Ghetto and conditions there can be researched up through December of 1941, seven months before the ghetto's dissolution. It's a little known fact that Hoover visited occupied Poland several times, a remarkable thing for a former U.S. President to do.

Another underused source, from the beginning until the end of the war, aid was sent to ghetto's and organizations by the Relief Committee For The War-Stricken Jewish Population (RELICO), run by Dr. Abraham Silberschein in cooperation with the World Jewish Congress. Food packages and mail could even be sent to Jews in concentration camps - there's a famous story about a Jewish agent trying to locate a friend, and cleverly sending six food packages to six different concentration camps. In a month, he received a postcard acknowledging delivery of the package to his friend that identified the camp he was in.

RELICO's records, for obvious reasons, are obscure and unresearched, I don't even know where they are kept; possibly in Basel, which is where Silberschein was headquartered. Another partial source - in DEBATING THE HOLOCAUST, Thomas Dalton details the paucity of reliable ghetto information as well as the incoherence of the stories, pointing out that if you add up the totals from the various stories they tell, the Washington Holocaust Museum lists a death total for the Warsaw Ghetto that dramatically exceeds the ghetto’s population, and publishes a death rate that would have emptied the ghetto in only three months, which limits the value of the Museum to documenting how screwed up the story is, not what the truth is.

There was even a concentration camp for Jews in Warsaw separate from the ghetto, and that operated until the Soviets arrived, which complicates the issue. The uprising in the Warsaw Ghetto tells how the Jews there built many, many basement bunkers, supposedly as bomb shelters but these later revealed stocks of food and weapons, so the food situation may have been better than related. Supposedly the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto were exterminated en masse at Treblinka, but in their monograph on the concentration camp at Stutthoff, Graf and Mattogno document Jews being sent there after being processed at Treblinka, so their fate remains in doubt.

I'm guessing the Hoover Institute will prove the most valuable, if incomplete source. If you can find unpublished diaries from survivors - that is not impossible - that would greatly aid the creation of your "own" diarie entries.

Lotsa luck, you'll need it.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby JustTheTruth » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:40 am)

Since this is for an assignment and assuming you want to get good grades, I think it best to leave any personal opinions aside.

As such, you might want to take a look at the David Boder wire recording interview conducted with camp survivors in the years immediately after liberation when they were in displaced-persons camps.

http://voices.iit.edu/

You will get many first-hand stories of life in the warsaw ghetto especially in the transcripts from those deported to Auschwitz.

Hope this is of some help and good luck!

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:44 pm)

Speaking of the IIT Boder archive, you might want to examine this fraud:
http://voices.iit.edu/interviewee?doc=piskorzB

he claims he drank urine to quench his thirst, not out of a cup either. Which is just ridiculous.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby JustTheTruth » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:54 am)

Yes Carto, you are spot on about the Boder recordings, they are quite a treasure-trove of information, but strangely not much that helps the Holocaust believers.

As you rightly pointed out, there are many simply unbelievable stories. Having reviewed about 30 of the recordings, including all the testimonies from Auschwitz survivors, I have discovered stories of Jews engaging in cannibalism, eating shit and drinking urine, men wandering all over the Auschwitz camp to see their families, and just so many "incredible" stories of witnessing extreme Nazi brutality against Jews for little or no reason, yet all managing miraculous luck themselves, a definite pattern of storytelling and embellishment emerges.

A great deal of information about what was going on behind the scenes with the Jews directly after the war is also revealed. It exposes how the Jews were immediately rounded up during liberation by Rabbis who were racing around all the camps, and separated into their own groups where they were fed the stories about the Holocaust which many apparently adopted as their own and subsequently embellished. One only need look at the text of the speeches given by the Rabbis in the make-shift synagogs that sprang up in most camps to see how this propaganda was so successfully communicated to the survivors.

This also may well explain the "convergence" of common elements to the survivor's stories that Historians use as "proof" of the holocaust (whilst ignoring the inconsistencies caused by each survivor embellishing the official version). This would also explain why survivors often mistakenly claim to have witnessed something that was physically impossible for them to have done so, such as the stories of "Barry" the trained genital-mauler appearing at both Treblinka and Sobibor, and of course lets not forget the dreaded "SS baby-ripper" who appears all over the place tearing babies into two with his bare hands.

Wouldn't it be really funny if the real reason why all these stories have common elements is because the survivors who came forward with their stories early on (desperate to get in good with the Zionists so they would go to America or Palistine instead of being stuck in a camp for years) were coached by their Rabbis en-mass; then the subsequent rounds of survivors coming forward with their stories, had just been listening to the early storytellers, then adopting and embellishing those stories to make up their own "experiences"?

Boder may have unwittingly done the Holocaust story more harm than good with his unique recordings...

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby RevisionistHM » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:30 pm)

Thank you all VERY much for your insight on this, I dont want to put so much of my opinions in there now, but glad to know more on the subject.

I just cant take this class so much, as we are told that pretty much everyone in the ghetto will die in a gas chamber and thats it. It is very annoying, but tomorrow we are watching ESCAPE FROM SOBIBOR...

Is there anything in this movie that I can point out as being false? I have seen parts, and I already know that the thick, billowing black smoke from the crematoria scene is made up, because from what I have read, the chimneys would not smoke like depicted.

Is there anything else that I could point out from this movie? I didnt want to start another thread and annoy you guys here so much, so I am still hoping you can help. Before the end of the year, I would like to show the teacher the other side of things a bit especially when we get to the "crazy people who think they can deny the Holocaust" chapter, as the teacher puts it.

Thank you

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Feb 03, 2010 6:26 pm)

Yes! You can point out that at Sobibor, there were no crematoria! The story at Sobibor is the same as for all the Reinhardt camps - supposedly the bodies were first buried, then later were dug up and burned on steel rails over wooden pyres. As many of the best revisionist writers have pointed out, the problem with this story is the wood supply. Using Dalton's figures, supposedly, 164,000 bodies were burned at Sobibor. He estimates 29,000 tons of wood woud have been needed, the weight of a battleship.

Nothing so highlights the fraud of this movie as the placement of a crematory at Sobibor. The story of the three Reinhardt camps - Sobibor, Belzec and Treblinka - is so bizarre that the filmmakers deliberately put in elements from stories familiar to viewers so that awkward questions wouldn't come up. They avoided the entire question of burying the bodies, exhuming them, stacking them, burning them, disposing of the ash, transporting the wood, cutting the wood, etc.

You can also point out that the camp was not closed down as a result of the rebellion, as the movie claims. At the time of the rebellion, the camp had already been closed and was in the process of being dismantled.

You can point out that the gas chamber scene is laughably inept. It shows women neatly lined up to enter a chamber that uses Zyklon B. Again, at Sobibor, like all the Reinhardt camps, the description of the alleged gas chambers describes ridiculous affairs that used mixed groups of people stuffed into multiple rooms (6 at Sobibor) that were killed by diesel exhaust. I assume you've heard about the diesel exhaust controversy, if not, I invite others to fill you in.

The movie claims that the Soviet prisoners of war at Sobibor were Jews who had been segregated from other POW's. In fact, they were not a segregated group of POW's. Jews - very few of them - in Soviet POW camps were not culled and segregated. There was a sizable POW camp at Sobibor, and the POW's were employed in the lumber mills and ammunition recycling factory.

AND, you can point out that the statement at the end of the movie that Leon Feldhendler, the character played by Alan Arkin, was killed in the streets of Lublin near the end of the war by non-Jewish Poles during an argument is totally false. Feldhendler was hit by bullets fired through the door of his apartment as he went to investigate an argument that was taking place in the hall. Nobody knows who shot him, or if they even knew who he was. Feldhendler was probably the random victim of a crime.

There's other mistakes in the movie, but it's been a while since I've seen it. Enjoy it for what it is - a lurid fantasy.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby RevisionistHM » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:38 pm)

Thank you for the information on the movie.

As usual, their feelings will take precedent over over intellectual discussion when they see the child running away from the supposed gas chamber and get killed by the dog.

I can guarantee that those in the class will feel horrible about seeing this and I know that the movie will be paused for a minute so we can talk about how horrible the Nazis were and how brutal they were. Just ridiculous reactions and its historically inaccurate and yet everyone will just let their feelings preside over the facts.

Today she told us just that "All the Nazis who ran the camp were the most horrible, vile, and ruthless people ever on Earth" and for a class about erasing stereotypes and generilizations that's very annoying. :(

Thank you, if anyone has anything else to add about the movie, please let me know! I am glad to be getting such a vast amount of information here.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:52 am)

Hi JustTheTruth,

You should start a new thread called "The Boder Archive" I'd like to know what you found there, and maybe you can give links to testimonies which you mention.

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby JustTheTruth » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Feb 06, 2010 8:32 am)

Hi Carto's Cutlass Supreme,

Interesting suggestion, thanks.

I am presently working on a project that uses a database with a web interface that allows the cross-referencing of historical sources regarding a particular topic of interest. The first is for Treblinka, so for example, shortly it will be able to produce reports that have quotes from every known testimony in relation to the Treblinka gas chambers and their engines etc; available by search menu.

Eventually it will cover every important aspect of the Treblinka camp - exposing the numerous contradictions in testimony. And if successful, databases can be also be created for all the important camps of the Holocaust.

The hope is for it to be a free research tool for historians and revisionists and student, so if it works as expected, I will see if I can make one for the Boder interviews. I'll keep you updated.

If you are interested in playing with the "beta" database, let me know...

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Re: Help with assignment on warsaw ghetto life

Postby Christof » 1 decade 11 months ago (Mon Mar 08, 2010 7:50 pm)

There's a video here that has some interesting commentary on the ghetto's Jewish police that you don't hear much about.

@15:42 it states:
"The Jewish police force numbering some 2,000 men behaved with particular inhumanity towards their fellow Jews.
These men supervised some of the worst brutalities of the ghetto."

It goes on to say that when the Jewish police had outlived their usefulness in the ghetto that the Germans shot them all in the back.I doubt that that happened because as a trained police force they would have been an asset to the Germans in the camps
"All the concentration camps were, after all, vast transit camps.The inmates were constantly changing, passing from one camp to another, coming and going." Balachowsky:IMT vol.VI pg.317


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