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grenadier
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Bad News...

Postby grenadier » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:25 pm)

This was written today at the Inconvenient History Revisionist blog by Thomas Kues:
EU anti-revisionist law by the end of the year?

On January 27, 2010, the “International Holocaust Remberance Day”, EU Commissioner for Security and Justice and Vice-President of the EC, Jacques Barrot, made the following highly important statement on his newspage:

“Sixty-five years ago, the world woke itself to the horrors of Auschwitz. Today, it is our duty to pay tribute to the 6 millions of Jews and all the other victims of the Holocaust.

We have a duty to remember the loss of life and the suffering caused by this unprecedented crime in history. This legacy must be passed to future generations as a memento. Miep Gies, one of the Dutch citizens who hid Anne Frank and her family from the Nazis and who preserved Anne Frank’s diary said that the past is never over.

Remembrance of the Shoah must strengthen our determination to fight, in today’s world, against the phenomena that several decades ago led the world into the abyss of the Holocaust. (…)

No form of antisemitism, regardless of where and whom it comes from, is acceptable. The commemoration of other crimes cannot be to the detriment of the remembrance of the Shoah. The conflict in the Middle East cannot be an excuse or justification for antisemitism. It is deplorable to read at the very wake of the commemoration of the Holocaust statements that deny the Shoah. It is unacceptable to deny or minimize the established history of the Nazi genocide against the Jews. The value of human life is universal: this is true for each and every human being, regardless of their race, religion, or nation.

At the end of this year, Member States will have to implement the long-awaited Framework Decision on racism and xenophobia. Sixty-five years after the extermination camps were liberated, we can be proud that EU law makes the denial of the Shoah a crime in all its Member States. The Commission is strongly committed to pay particular attention to the correct transposition and implementation of all the provisions of this Framework Decision across the Union.


Thus, if Barrot and his cohorts have their way, critical scrutiny of the “Holocaust” claims, i.e. “Holocaust denial” will be illegalized come 2011 in all EU member states, not only the ones already equipped with such anti-heresy laws (among them Germany, Austria, France, Belgium and the Netherlands). The modern day inquisition of the Holy Shoah will enter a new stage. “The European Mind Stops…”


Disgusting eh? If it really happens, it might represent the end of the inconvenient top holocaust revisionist researcher Carlo Mattogno and put an end to new revisionist research and publications. On the other hand, it shows clearly that the holocaust industry is really desperate and needs to silence dissenters at all costs.
It demonstrates to any astute observer that the holocaust is really a very dirty Hoax!

SevenUp
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Re: Bad News...

Postby SevenUp » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Jan 29, 2010 2:56 pm)

Check this out ......it reminds me of Ali saying, prior to the Liston fight, "If he even dreamed he beat me, he'd have to call up and apologize" !!!

Image

http://assembly.coe.int/Mainf.asp?li.../EDOC12138.htm

Doc. 12138

27 January 2010

Holocaust denial

Written Declaration No 435

This written declaration commits only the members who have signed it
The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe firmly condemns all those who deny, question or admit doubts, in whole or in part, the respect of the historical fact of the extermination of millions of Jews as a result of extremist right-wing racist and anti-Semitic ideology put into practice by the Nazis at the death camps situated on Polish soil during the Second World War.

We are concerned to learn of the ambiguous statements made on the Polish radio station, Radio Maryja, and elsewhere, by Senator Ryszard Bender who chaired the first part of the Assembly sitting on 25 January by virtue of being the oldest delegate present. We note that Mr Bender’s statements have been condemned by democratic politicians and historians inside Poland. We urge the Assembly authorities to take more care before any delegate chairs an Assembly sitting who has made any ambiguous remarks about Jews in any context. We note and regret the election of members of the European Parliament who have made anti-Jewish statements or who have denied the Holocaust. We urge Mr Bender to clarify his position and uphold the clear and unequivocal view of the Council of Europe that what happened to Jews on Polish soil under nazi occupation was a monstrous crime unprecedented in world history, which present and future generations must comprehend and learn why the hatred of Jews leads to ultimate evil.

Signed: 1

MacSHANE Denis, United Kingdom, SOC
ANDERSON Donald, United Kingdom, SOC
BARNETT Doris, Germany, SOC
BLONDIN Maryvonne, France, SOC
CARTES IVERN Joan, Andorra, SOC
CHIDGEY David, United Kingdom, ALDE
CILEVIČS Boriss, Latvia, SOC
CURTIS-THOMAS Claire, United Kingdom, SOC
DÍAZ TEJERA Arcadio, Spain, SOC
DURRIEU Josette, France, SOC
ELZINGA Tuur, Netherlands, UEL
ETHERINGTON Bill, United Kingdom, SOC
GOJKOVIĆ Obrad, Montenegro, SOC
GROSS Andreas, Switzerland, SOC
HAGBERG Michael, Sweden, SOC
HÄGG Carina, Sweden, SOC
HOOD Jim, United Kingdom, SOC
HURSKAINEN Sinikka, Finland, SOC
HUSS Jean, Luxembourg, SOC
JOHN-CALAME Francine, Switzerland, SOC
KATRINIS Michail, Greece, SOC
KOX Tiny, Netherlands, UEL
LAXTON Bob, United Kingdom, SOC
MARCENARO Pietro, Italy, SOC
MAURY PASQUIER Liliane, Switzerland, SOC
McCAFFERTY Christine, United Kingdom, SOC
MEALE Alan, United Kingdom, SOC
MOSCOSO DEL PRADO HERNÁNDEZ Juan, Spain, SOC
O'HARA Edward, United Kingdom, SOC
ORTEL Holger, Germany, SOC
de PUIG i OLIVE Lluís Maria, Spain, SOC
RIBA FONT Maria Pilar, Andorra, SOC
ROTH Karin, Germany, SOC
ROUQUET René, France, SOC
ROWEN Paul, United Kingdom, ALDE
SARIKAS Fidias, Chypre, SOC
SPAHIĆ Ervin, Montenegro, SOC
STOILOV Yanaki, Bulgaria, SOC
STRIK Tineke, Netherlands, SOC
STUMP Doris, Switzerland, SOC
SZABÓ Zoltán, Hungary, SOC
TOMLINSON John E., United Kingdom, SOC
VĖSAITĖ Birutė, Lithuania, SOC
VIS Rudi, United Kingdom, SOC
VRETTOS Konstantinos, Greece, SOC
VRIES Klaas De, Netherlands, SOC
__________________

Total = 46

1 EPP/CD: Group of the European People’s Party
SOC: Socialist Group
ALDE: Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe
EDG: European Democratic Group
UEL: Group of the Unified European Left
NR: not registered in a group

GurtKerstein
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Re: Bad News...

Postby GurtKerstein » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Jan 29, 2010 3:50 pm)

Every Holocaust denial law that they pass and every revisionist that they jail has the exactly opposite effect: millions more start doubting the official story.

This is what led me to question the official story in the first place: what truth is it that needs to be protected by law? why would someone propose to legislate something that is self evident as state-sanctioned-truth? Who are those supposed hate-monger who are being thrown in jail? What crime have they committed? etc.
The Emperor cannot see the cloth, but pretends that he can for fear of appearing stupid; his ministers do the same. A child in the crowd calls out that the Emperor is wearing nothing. The Emperor holds himself up proudly and continues the procession.

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Re: Bad News...

Postby holographic » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:41 pm)

Here comes the dogma police!

Not everyone is happy,of course. To some, the academic tone adopted by some who have written on the Holocaust is itself a violation. They fear that the use of professional historical discourse will turn the Holocaust into a subject like any other, robbing it of its historic uniqueness. While opposing "mystification around the Holocaust,
" Yehuda Bauer has also warned of
the growing tendency of immersing tears and suffering in oceans of footnotes,of coming up with a remote quasi-scientific approach which would be as inhuman as that of those who committed the crime or of those who stood by and watched indifferently. -The Holocaust in History, chap. 9 p.201-2


they have their "ocean of footnotes" and a "quasi-scientific approach" when it serves their purpose. the thought police march on defiantly while the majority stands by and watches indifferently.

For me, there is really only one novel worth writing at this moment in history....

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Re: Bad News...

Postby nickterry » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Jan 30, 2010 5:06 am)

I would advise everyone to read the actual text of the EU Council Framework Decision, the clauses relating to the denial of genocides and crimes against humanity (not just the Holocaust) have clearly been watered down due to the opposition of Britain and I believe, the Netherlands and Scandinavia, which are all countries without explicit 'simple' anti-Holocaust denial laws on the model of Germany, France or Switzerland

1. Each Member State shall take the measures necessary to ensure that the following intentional conduct is punishable:

(a) publicly inciting to violence or hatred directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin;

(b) the commission of an act referred to in point (a) by public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other material;

(c) publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes as defined in Articles 6, 7 and 8 of the Statute of the International Criminal Court, directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin when the conduct is carried out in a manner likely to incite to violence or hatred against such a group or a member of such a group;

(d) publicly condoning, denying or grossly trivialising the crimes defined in Article 6 of the Charter of the International Military Tribunal appended to the London Agreement of 8 August 1945, directed against a group of persons or a member of such a group defined by reference to race, colour, religion, descent or national or ethnic origin when the conduct is carried out in a manner likely to incite to violence or hatred against such a group or a member of such a group.

2. For the purpose of paragraph 1, Member States may choose to punish only conduct which is either carried out in a manner likely to disturb public order or which is threatening, abusive or insulting.


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... 913:EN:NOT

These clauses thus would not force Britain to enact new legislation to alter the existing charge of Incitement to Racial Hatred. One could certainly be prosecuted for denying genocide if the denial was phrased in such a way as to incite racial hatred and breach public order provisions, or which effectively suggested that while such-and-such a genocide did not happen, it ought to have done or should do in the future because ethnic group x are subhuman. But the legal trigger is the incitement aspect, not the denial. This is why David Irving has never been prosecuted under this law.

The British parliament as should be well known considered implementing an anti-Holocaust denial law around 2000, but even Blair's government decided not to go ahead, and there is no great support for such a measure among either politicians or the media. Considering that this year is an election year in the UK, and a Eurosceptic party, the Conservatives, will almost certainly come to power, then the chance of any new law appearing in Britain are basically nil.

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Re: Bad News...

Postby Thesaint » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Jan 30, 2010 7:52 am)

Bad,but expected.

As for the fictional entity commonly referred to as the "European Union"...............
"We didn't call survivors," says Lipstadt, "because first of all we didn't want to subject them to cross-examination by this guy. He (Irving) would have destroyed them."
- Jerusalem Post 6/16/00

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Re: Bad News...

Postby athenarena » 9 years 7 months ago (Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:32 pm)

I personally and stand by it that the Holocaust happened. I believe it did happen and it is the truth. But this is going too far! If you do not believe it, as long as you say it in a respectful manner and do not force your belief on other people and make it sound as unbiased and ojective as possible, I do not see the reason for such a law.

However, some are too busy pleasing others to allow the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to do its job. The UN said Never Again after the Holocaust but it is happening again and again. What law is next? You can only speak about certain things in a certain way?

Countries like the USA and the UK are too busy pleasing other and their voters. Anyones remember Rwanda? Oh yeah, it was those two countries, particularly the USA who made the UN pull out. Appartently our lives were worth more than a million people

Greg Gerdes
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Re: Bad News...

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 6 months ago (Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:32 pm)

athenarena

I personally and stand by it that the Holocaust happened. I believe it did happen and it is the truth.



Really athenarenad?

Do you personally stand by / beleive that the Belzec holocaust happened and that the nonsensical stories about the camp are true?

Yes or No?

If yes, then would you please go to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5943

And accept - The Final Solution Forensic Challenge?


Do you personally stand by / beleive that the Chelmno holocaust happened and that the nonsensical stories about the camp are true?

Yes or No?

If yes, then would you please go to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5943

And accept - The Final Solution Forensic Challenge?


Do you personally stand by / beleive that the Sobibor holocaust happened and that the nonsensical stories about the camp are true?

Yes or No?

If yes, then would you please go to this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5943

And accept - The Final Solution Forensic Challenge?


Do you personally stand by / beleive that the Treblinka holocaust happened and that the nonsensical stories about the camp are true?

Yes or No?

If yes, then would you please go to this thread:

http://www.nafcash.com/

And accept - The Final Solution Forensic Challenge?

Greg Gerdes
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Re: Bad News...

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 6 months ago (Tue Mar 02, 2010 7:38 pm)

all those who deny, question or admit doubts, in whole or in part, the respect of the historical fact of the extermination of millions of Jews



Please notice the ambiguity.


What is the definition of the "whole" of "millions?"

What is the definition of "part" of "millions?"

So if I "question" or "admit doubt" that "part" of the alleged 900,000 jews claimed to be buried at Treblinka as per Shermer aren't really buried there, then that makes me a criminal in the eyes of the jews.

What if I "question" or "admit doubt" that "part" of the alleged 320,000 jews claimed to be buried at Chelmno, as per Yad Vahem aren't really buried there?

So just to be safe, all EU subjects must not question the highest death toll estimate of each camp that is claimed by any "holocaust scholar."

So all EU subjects must not "question" or "admit doubt" that even "part" of the alleged 9 million jews holocausted at Auschwitz as cited by the French documentary - Night and Fog didn't happen.

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Re: Bad News...

Postby Inquisitive » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:53 am)

athenarena wrote:
If you do not believe it, as long as you say it in a respectful manner and do not force your belief on other people and make it sound as unbiased and objective as possible

This sure does describe how "scholars" go after revisionists. :)
Mr. Gerdes has been kind enough to offer you a challenge. Would you please at least attempt an answer that will let all understand why you do believe (rather then blind faith)? Thanks.

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Re: Bad News...

Postby Turpitz » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:57 am)

1 EPP/CD: Group of the European People’s Party
SOC: Socialist Group
ALDE: Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe
EDG: European Democratic Group
UEL: Group of the Unified European Left
NR: not registered in a groupoffline



Like a roll call at one of Ehrenbergs Marxist Coffee Mornings.


dontchat300x.gif


http://www.stopcp.com/

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Re: Bad News...

Postby KostasL » 9 years 1 week ago (Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:57 pm)

athenarena wrote:I personally and stand by it that the Holocaust happened. I believe it did happen and it is the truth.


It is the truth even if this truth consists of so many admited or proven lies ??? :roll:

But this is going too far!


The holocaustians went too far and in many ways but too far is not enough it seems...

If you do not believe it, as long as you say it in a respectful manner and do not force your belief on other people and make it sound as unbiased and ojective as possible, I do not see the reason for such a law.


Well, what about .... IF YOU BELIEVE IT as long as you say it in a respectful manner and do not force your belief on other people and make it sound as unbiased and objective as possible, I do not see the reason for a law banning holocaust believers !!! :wink:

However, some are too busy pleasing others to allow the Universal Declaration of Human Rights to do its job. The UN said Never Again after the Holocaust but it is happening again and again. What law is next? You can only speak about certain things in a certain way?

Countries like the USA and the UK are too busy pleasing other and their voters. Anyones remember Rwanda? Oh yeah, it was those two countries, particularly the USA who made the UN pull out. Appartently our lives were worth more than a million people


Hypocrisy is the word for this...Hypocrisy is the word for those who defend the holocaust hoax but perpetrate or ignore real holocausts...
When you realize that the Holocaust is a LIE, then all of a sudden, ALL your questions, ALL bizarre and strange things, disappear, and ALL things make sense, at last.

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Re: Bad News...

Postby David Baker » 9 years 1 week ago (Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:01 am)

Long before their precious "Shoah", so-called "Anti-Semitism" against Jews was outlawed by Stalin. I don't believe Jews would care to discuss the reasons why Stalin would impose such speech codes (In my opinion, the 'reasons' were, and ARE, obvious..) Jews have succeeded in shielding themselves from any scrutiny or criticism, two traits which, unfortunately, are of human nature. Where flagrant hypocrisy decays this altruistic effort to not hurt people's feelings is in the Jewish campaign to denegrate religion, utilizing their own scrutiny and criticism to diminish the stature of religious icons. Perhaps this is one reason why Jews have invariably sought legislation to protect them from retribution for such agendas. In any case, they have still been thrown out of every nation for one reason or the other. I don't think their current ouster from Russia, and possibly the U.S.,in future, will be unexpected.

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Re: Bad News...

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 1 week ago (Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:13 am)

You have to admire someone who says this on public radio

"Auschwitz was not a death camp, it was a labour camp," Bender said in the radio broadcast. "Jews, Gypsies and others were annihilated there through hard labour. Actually, labour was not always hard and not always were they annihilated."

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Re: Bad News...

Postby athenarena » 8 years 10 months ago (Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:40 pm)

Right, have not been back to this in a while. I was off at Model United Nations and at the hiding and mourning for the anniversary of my late father.

I stand by what I believe in, Greg Gerdes. I looked at what you linked and have not been swayed. Call me what you want but I your junior (of that I am pretty sure of) will not fall to that level. Maybe it is the fact I am Irish and know what it is like to be persecuted for religious reasons. The penal laws, British oppression at it's finest. "To Hell or Connaught." Thank you Mr. Oliver Cromwell.

I also believe because unlike some I can know humans have a darker side, that humans are both angel and animal -from Hamlet but cannot remember exact quote. Paul Potts Cambodia, Darfur, Srebencia, Rwanda, Honour Killings, Native Americans (although disease can be seen more as the killer there) and the Sacking of Jerusalem 1099. Did you expect that sort of knowledge from a 17 year old girl? I do not bury my head in the sand. Also I believe because we can learn things from this disaster. We can make legislation stronger due to it to ensure it does not happen again. We cannot just discard something without finding the diamond in the rough. By taking the knowledge out of something we properse, by discarding and ridculing we destroy anything we can gleam.

Well, what about .... IF YOU BELIEVE IT as long as you say it in a respectful manner and do not force your belief on other people and make it sound as unbiased and objective as possible, I do not see the reason for a law banning holocaust believers !!!


Whichever way makes you feel better even though I was arguing your case and on your side. I am going to have fun in the ICJ.

Hypocrisy is the word for this...Hypocrisy is the word for those who defend the holocaust hoax but perpetrate or ignore real holocausts..


I definitely agree with the word hypocrite being used for the US who put them forward as the leaders of the democratic world and then do nothing to protect it. Protectionism is a favourite policy of the States.


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