joachim neander has names of 2 'gassed'

[Greg Gerdes]

joachim:

what you would accept as proof?

Hey joachim, why don't you ask me that question on this thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5943

[Hektor]

As I am frequently asked questions (which I try to answer as well as I can), I would like to pose a question to the Revisionists who post here:
What would you consider to be "a document" proving the September 1941 gassing in the Auschwitz Bunker (basement of Block 13, late 11)?
You cannot realistically expect an independent investigation committee (e.g. from the ICRC) arriving "the day after," taking photographs and writing a report.
Even if you are convinced that the Aktion did not happen, you should be able to imagine "IF" and say, what you would accept as proof?

Simple and straight question, simple and straight answer. If they really would have gassed anyone that they, you can be pretty damned sure that the Germans would have established a concise document of this even. Stating WHOM they killed, by what MEAN and most likely WHY. And yes, they would have been entered into the standesamtliche Sterbebuecher as well. The same applies to any further homicidal gassings in Auschwitz or Birkenau camp. Except for a report of their executions, there would also be concise orders for doing so. Such documents might be stamped "Geheim" or "Streng Geheim", they nevertheless can be assumed to have existed, if there was a program to kill jews by gassing them with Zyklon B. No such document has ever been shown, hence there is no documentary proof for the Holocaust. What is used as documentary evidence for the Holocaust, is actually documentary proof for deportation, internment, retraction of priviledges and in some cases of executions and of course cases of jews dying. This actually means that the relevant documents do support the Revisionist and not the Exterminationist view on the issue.

[joachim neander]

Hey joachim, why are you and you holohoaxer friends so afraid of presenting your gassing "proof" on this thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5944

Dear Sir,
I cannot speak for my alleged "friends." So let me answer for myself. I presented my proof at this thread. Repeating it at another thread would be nothing but spamming. And this is against the forum rules. The moderator would rightfully delete it.

[Greg Gerdes]

No it wouldn't joachim, it has a different twist.

But I'm sure your excuse will give everyone here a good laugh.

BTW joachim, what was the name of the ONE jew you claim was gassed at Auschwitz?

I don't recall seeing anywhere that you provided any proof about anyone being a jew.


Please notice this quote:

neander:

"on January 31, 2010, at the CODOH Revisionist forum[2] in an attempt to answer to a demand frequently made by Revisionists: “Show me one name, one single name, with proof that a person was gassed at Auschwitz.” I presented two names, Fritz Renner and Bruno Grosmann, both from Breslau, (at that time) Germany, and gave evidence that both prisoners died on September 5, 1941, by gassing in the basement of Block 11"


Did you notice that neander himself just admitted that he did not provide proof, just - "gave evidence?"

So neander still hasn't provided us with one single name of one single jew and he still hasn't provided us any proof, just what he calls "evidence."

From the first post on this thread:

Mr. Neander wrote:

Greg Gerdes wrote: Oh nick, we're still waiting for the name of just one jew who died in a "gas chamber," remember?

And the name of that ONE JEW is????

joachim?

[joachim neander]

1) It is good and sensible custom on this forum to give a reference to a thread where a certain topic already has been discussed, irrespective of the title of the thread.
2) If nobody was gassed by the Nazis (as Mr. Berg never tires to remind his readers, and to which you obviously subscribe) - what sense does it make to discuss the nationality or "race" of a non-gassed individual in a thread on gassing? What is more, until now, you have sweepingly dismissed any evidence I've given. I would not be able to present you a document signed by the local rabbi certifying that Mr. XYZ is member of the Jewish community of ABC-town and has paid his membership fees until the date of his committal to preventive custody at Auschwitz. Everything else is hearsay. So what?

[Greg Gerdes]

neander

If nobody was gassed by the Nazis... what sense does it make to discuss the nationality or "race" of a non-gassed individual in a thread on gassing? ...I would not be able to present you a document signed by the local rabbi certifying that Mr. XYZ is member of the Jewish community of ABC-town and has paid his membership fees until the date of his committal to preventive custody at Auschwitz... So what?

What you're saying neander, is that you are admitting that you cannot provide the name of one single jew who was "gassed" at Auschwitz.

NOT ONE!

And your comment is - "So what?"

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Now neander, you / the jews still have 27 other "homicidal gassing sites" to make up for the above embarrassing admission.

Please go to:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5944

And show us what you've got.

Don’t let you're utter failure on this thread scare you away from giving the other 27 sites a go neander.

You're 0 for 1 at the moment. Are you afraid that you’re going to end up 0 for 28?

[joachim neander]

Mr. Gerdes,
please comply at least a little bit with the forum rules and don't call me "neander."
You are not my sergeant-major and I am not your recruit.

[KostasL]

Dear joachim neander,

Didn't you find enough indications or proofs that the holocaust is a hoax ?

Or didn't you notice the many lies already admitted from the holocaust side ?

If you didn't you better start asking yourself why...

[ps]

Auto. trans.

"On 2 September has been cleared block 11, so the following day to gasify 600 Soviet POWs and 250 sick in his basement. On the morning of 4 September was entering the basement with a gas mask. Because some prisoners were still alive, was again poured Zyklon B. In the afternoon, all prisoners were dead, it opened the doors and removed the seals of the windows. In the night of the 5th September the bodies were brought from the basement and stripped."
(Wikipedia)


This seems to be the batch, said to have been gassed with the Neander Jews.

Such nonsense is refuted scientifically, and not with polemic!

850 persons on how many square feet? I simply assume again that we have 5 people per square meter. Ceiling height of 2.5 m. It is said that the gas chambers were sealed. Thus, each person is left a respirable air volume of 440 liters. At 100 W per person, the oxygen content after 3.5 hours on the lethal limit of 6% has dropped! Long before they had already died from CO2 poisoning!

Therefore, it is completely impossible that the next day even without Zyklon B still someone had to live!

Neander's gassed Jews are therefore a complete nonsense!


-----------------


"Am 2. September wurde Block 11 geräumt, um am darauffolgenden Tag 600 sowjetische Kriegsgefangene und 250 Kranke in dessen Keller zu vergasen. Am Morgen des 4. Septembers wurde der Keller mit Gasmaske betreten. Da noch einige Gefangene lebten, wurde noch einmal Zyklon B eingeschüttet. Am Nachmittag waren alle Gefangenen tot, es wurden die Türen geöffnet und die Abdichtungen der Fenster entfernt. In der Nacht zum 5. September wurden die Leichen aus dem Keller geholt und entkleidet."
(Wikipedia)

Dies scheint die Charge zu sein, mit der Neanders Juden vergast worden sein soll.

Solch einen Unsinn widerlegt man naturwissenschaftlich und nicht mit Polemik!

850 Personen auf wieviel Quadratmeter? Ich nehme einfach einmal an, daß wir 5 Personen je Quadratmeter haben. Deckenhöhe 2,5m. Es wird gesagt, die Gaskammern waren abgedichtet. Somit bleibt je Person ein atembares Luftvolumen von 440 Liter übrig. Bei 100 W je Person ist der Sauerstoffgehalt nach 3,5 Stunden auf die tödliche Grenze von 6% abgesunken! Lange vorher wären sie bereits durch CO2 Vergiftung gestorben!

Daher ist es vollkommen unmöglich, daß am nächsten Tag selbst ohne Zyklon B noch jemand hätte leben können!

Neanders vergaste Juden sind daher ein vollkommener Blödsinn!


Calculation:

1 ltr O2 (27°C) = 19100 J (medical)

(2500 ltr - 60ltr/P *5P ) / 5P = 440 ltr/P

O2 = 0,21
Life-Limit O2 = 0,06
N = 100 W or J/sP

Life-Time = 19100 J/ltr * 440 ltr/P *(0,21-0,06) / 100 J/sP = 12606 s = 3,5 h

q.e.d.
========================

What is your answer, Mr. Joachim Neander? Maybe: "I can´t prove it, because I am only a poor historcan and can therefore not calculate it?"

[joachim neander]

Have you been in the basement of Block 11? I have, several times. It is quite spacious (not all parts are part of the museum and therefore open for the public). I would not take an oath at the number "850," but as a frequent passenger on the 502 bus to Nowa Huta (which is always crammed full) I know that your "5 persons on a square meter" does not apply there. I explained my view of the Aktion in a post on the Holocaustcontroversies blogspot blog, which you can easily find by googling.

[ps]

Mr. Neander, here is the discussion led and green somewhere on the lawn! I understand from your reply that you have no answer and your two Jews are lies!

My data come from Wikipedia and there are claims 600+250 and not more or less. Just as claims Gerstein 700-800 Jews in 45m ³. We deal not so long until it fits, we are not Jews!

In addition, I can also tell how long 5 Jews / m² would actually survive: Very briefly. But for Jews, 2 per square meter I have just 3.5 hours. CO2 poisoning death. Without Zyklon B!

Now the gas chamber was greater than 425 m², Mr. Joachim Neander? Or you do not know this already?

-----------------

Herr Neander, hier wird die Diskussion geführt und nicht irgendwo auf der grünen Wiese! Ihrer Antwort entnehme ich, daß Sie keine Antwort mehr haben und Ihre 2 Juden erlogen sind!

Meine Daten entstammen Wikipedia und dort werden 600+250 behauptet und nicht mehr oder weniger. Genauso wie Gerstein 700-800 Juden in 45m³ behauptet. Wir handeln nicht so lange bis es passt, wir sind keine Juden!

Zudem kann ich Ihnen auch noch verraten, wie lange 5 Juden/m² tatsächlich überlebt hätten: Sehr kurz. Aber für 2 Juden je Quadratmeter habe ich es ausgerechnet: 3,5 Stunden. Todesursache CO2 Vergiftung. Ohne Zyklon B!

War nun die Gaskammer noch größer als 425 m², Herr Joachim Neander? Oder wissen sie das schon wieder nicht?

[isabelle]

why does neander refuse to present his proof

[joachim neander]

Sorry, "PS" - Wikipedia is neither a source nor a reference book for historians.

As I already said, I would not take an oath on the number "600 + 250", most probably the number was far less. Numbers of crowds normally are overestimated by witnesses, even by professionals, such as policemen. I therefore cautiously speak of "a great number," without quantifying.

I do not have the exact dimensions of Block 11 at hand, but if you look at the Scrapbook Pages, you will find a good photograph that will show you that it is quite a big building, and if you travel to Auschwitz, you can without any problem measure the length and width of the building, from which you - after subtracting for the thickness of the walls - can calculate its inner surface. As a clue: In cases of dense occupation, in the Auschwitz I blocks about 1000 prisoners were living on one floor.

[Älghuvud]

In cases of dense occupation, in the Auschwitz I blocks about 1000 prisoners were living on one floor.

Can the latter accomodations really be compared to a chamber chock-full of people where anyone would have died of suffocation within minutes?

[ps]

Auto. trans.

Mr. Neander how big the rooms were now not much, if not at the same time the number of Jews will be given. Their statements are as buttery as it gets!
For this reason I have presented the Singularist. Here again a number of results. As we all know ", the SS herded the Jews together more closely. 10 Jews / m² was completely normal.

But here we are dealing with an alleged gassing with "special features". They were allegedly gassed sample.

And it is known to conclude that between the door and the door open a period of 10 hours was determined. And that also still Zyklon B had to be poured after. Supposedly, anyway.

The problem is that to vote in any "reasonable" test gassing this information even remotely. So they are lying. Just as their two candidates. Namely:

At a density of

5 Jews / m² follows Zyklon B without a Selbstvergasungszeit of 1.5 h
4 Jews / m² follows Zyklon B without a Selbstvergasungszeit of 1.8 h
3 Jews / m² follows Zyklon B without a Selbstvergasungszeit of 2.4 h
2 Jews / m² follows Zyklon B without a Selbstvergasungszeit of 3.5 h
A Jewish / m² follows Zyklon B without a Selbstvergasungszeit of 6.6 h
0.65 Jews / m² follows Zyklon B without a Selbstvergasungszeit 10 h

Are you telling us that they brought the Jews into the gas chamber with a bed, so that they in their gassing with Zyklon B have very comfortable, too? Are you telling us that they had indulged in a Jewish 1.5 m² of floor space, including deck, where the SS should have been always so cruel?

As you set up here claims that it should be just was not 850 Jews, and since you have referred me to a diffuse topic already where you obtained the interesting data is already supposed to position, but it should be easy for you to say there were 1, 2, 3 .. 10 Jews / m². We want it not to know "exactly" but only the approximate size Jews x / m².

The wall may trigger you to make your own.

---------------------

Herr Neander, wie groß die Räume nun waren ist nicht erheblich, wenn nicht gleichzeitig die Anzahl Juden mitgeteilt wird. Ihre Aussagen sind so butterweich wie es nur geht!
Aus diesem Grund habe ich Ihnen das einzahlig präsentiert. Hier einmal eine ganze Reihe von Ergebnissen. Wie wir alle "wissen", pferchte die SS die Juden immer sehr eng zusammen. 10 Juden /m² war durchaus normal.

Hier jedoch haben wir es mit einer behaupteten Vergasung mit "Besonderheiten" zu tun. Es waren angeblich Probevergasungen.

Und es ist bekannt, daß zwischen Tür schließen und Tür öffnen eine Zeit von bestimmt 10 Stunden lag. Und daß zudem noch Zyklon B nachgeschüttet werden mußte. Angeblich jedenfalls.

Das Problem ist jedoch, daß bei keiner "vernünftigen" Probevergasung diese Angaben auch nur im entferntesten stimmen können. Also sind sie gelogen. Genauso wie ihre beide Kandidaten. Nämlich:

Bei einer Belegungsdichte von

5 Juden/m² ergibt sich ohne Zyklon B eine Selbstvergasungszeit von 1,5 h
4 Juden/m² ergibt sich ohne Zyklon B eine Selbstvergasungszeit von 1,8 h
3 Juden/m² ergibt sich ohne Zyklon B eine Selbstvergasungszeit von 2,4 h
2 Juden/m² ergibt sich ohne Zyklon B eine Selbstvergasungszeit von 3,5 h
1 Juden/m² ergibt sich ohne Zyklon B eine Selbstvergasungszeit von 6,6 h
0,65 Juden/m² ergibt sich ohne Zyklon B eine Selbstvergasungszeit von 10 h

Wollen Sie uns erzählen, daß man die Juden mit Bett in die Gaskammer gebracht hat, damit sie es bei ihrer Vergasung mit Zyklon B auch besonders bequem haben? Wollen Sie uns erzählen, daß man einem Juden 1,5m² Bodenfläche samt Liegestuhl gegönnt hätte, wo die SS doch immer so grausam gewesen sein soll?

Da Sie hier Behauptungen aufstellen, daß es eben nicht 850 Juden gewesen sein sollen, und da Sie mich auf ein diffuses Thema bereits verwiesen haben, wo Sie angeblich zu den interessierenden Daten bereits Stellung bezogen haben, sollte es doch für Sie ein Leichtes sein zu sagen, es waren 1, 2, 3...10 Juden /m². Wir wollen es auch nicht "genau" wissen sondern nur die ungefähre Größe x Juden/m².

Den Mauerabzug dürfen Sie selbst vornehmen.