joachim neander has names of 2 'gassed'

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Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 1 week ago (Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:23 pm)

Neander's total reliance on "eyewitness" testimony is a spectacle to behold. He is like an unhappy, naked, embarassed child who tries to cover himself with "eyewitness statements" carefully placed and strategically interconnected to obscure the truth and the utter shabbiness of himself. Obviously, Neander has n-o-t-h-i-n-g better and must make the most of it. People do lie! It is so hard to believe. "Eyewitness testimony" is not necessarily false but should be examined extremely carefully and critically, always.

Image

Joachim Neander's performance here is like that of the naked emperor in the tale of the the Emperor's New Clothes. Only people who are blind or demented, psychically and morally--i.e., not "serious historians"-- can possibly fail to recognize the “undeniable” truth. In the childrens' fairytale, only people who were stupid and/or unfit for service to the emperor could possibly deny seeing the emperor's beautiful new clothes.

ReaL evidence is documentary evidence, or forensic evidence, or physical evidence or scientific evidence. Forensic science has advanced enormously since the days of Homer and the Illiad. None of that supports the holocaust gassing claims. Even though Joachim Neander seems to work at Auschwitz surrounded by mountains of documentary materials and the physical remains of Auschwitz itself, he has found nothing to support the claim that even one person was ever killed in a gas chamber there, or anywhere else by the Nazis--except for "eyewitness" statements. Shame on Joachim Neander!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
Last edited by Friedrich Paul Berg on Sun Feb 14, 2010 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.


The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Hans
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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby Hans » 9 years 1 week ago (Sun Feb 14, 2010 4:25 am)

Mojo wrote:You begin your rebuttal with the usual ad hom/strawman rubbish, which makes the rest of it pointless.

Ironic you said this too.

neander wrote:What is more, I do not answer to ad hominem attacks.


I guess you only initiate them? :lol:


Criticing Mattogno's methodology is not ad hominem, Mojo. Methodology is substantial when approaching historical issues.

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joachim neander
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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby joachim neander » 9 years 1 week ago (Sun Feb 14, 2010 5:53 am)

Mojo wrote:You begin your rebuttal with the usual ad hom/strawman rubbish, which makes the rest of it pointless.


Could you please be specific - what do YOU see as an "ad hominem" attack, and where do I, in YOUR opinion, build up "a strawman"?

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby grenadier » 9 years 6 days ago (Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:32 pm)

Hans:
Criticing Mattogno's methodology is not ad hominem, Mojo. Methodology is substantial when approaching historical issues.


In that case Hans, you and J Neander must look into the mirror first because holohoax "methodology" totally perverts scientific History. As I wrote in this thread before and it bears repeating every time you people come up with this tired obfuscation tactic.
Anyone who has taken the trouble to read some reference Holohoax studies can see that you people always put the wagon in front of the horses. It works like this: It was "proven" that the industrialized mass murder of Jews took place in the Allied show trials and the system stooges, the Holocaust "historians", are the guardians of this holy grail, tasked with keeping this monstrous lie alive, enhance it and perpetuate it. The evidence does not exist, as Van Pelt(no proof for 99% of the holo) and many others have had to admit one way or another. And there you have these holo hoaxters dancing around the main issue, which is, THERE IS NO EVIDENCE THIS CRIME EVEN HAPPENED, while forcing whatever they see as 'evidence' fit their pathetic story. Such behavior is a complete breach of basic logic. That is what you JN, have just done in this thread.
So don't you come here lecturing people about scholarly work. Try to learn to walk before learning to run.


JNeander
What is more, I do not answer to ad hominem attacks.


Sure, sure, but you DO very much associate with people who amply resort to ad hominem attacks, including latrine name-calling and ridiculous attempts at intimidation, such as threats. After all, Joachim is a pal of Roberto's, a regular "contributor" to the nutjob blog where Joachim has been posting. Do you strongly disaprove of Robertos behaviour then, Mr.Neander?
Further, since you want us to think of you as a scholar, do you agree with the basic proposition that the holocaust must be normalized as a historical issue, i.e. be treated as other subjects in history where dissenting positions are necessary and a welcome part of the process? Pay attention Mr.Neander, as I go of course beyond the mere tearing down of anti-rev laws such as those in your country, the puppet state of Germany.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby Mojo » 9 years 6 days ago (Sun Feb 14, 2010 2:52 pm)

joachim neander wrote:
Mojo wrote:You begin your rebuttal with the usual ad hom/strawman rubbish, which makes the rest of it pointless.


Could you please be specific - what do YOU see as an "ad hominem" attack, and where do I, in YOUR opinion, build up "a strawman"?


I expected - and received - furious criticism from the lower ranks of the Bewegung.


What do you call this from your first paragraph? As I said, it made the rest of it pointless and not worth reading in my opinion.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby joachim neander » 9 years 6 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:32 am)

It was not me, but Revisionists themselves, who called Revisionism "a movement," in my native tongue "eine Bewegung."
As in all "movements," there are leaders (the top leader a "flagship" - a by far non-derogatory metaphor) and "rank and file," to which I would subsume those who "fiercely" - do you see this as an attack? - have criticized me on this forum. What is wrong with mentioning this? Do you feel personally offended by not having been regarded as one of the "leaders" of the "movement"?

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby Mojo » 9 years 6 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 8:39 am)

No, I am not offended by not being regarded as a leader. I am however offended when I search the term Bewegung (My native language is English & not the Queens) and it's first & foremost associated with a Nazi movement during WW2. I am NOT a Nazi, nor do I care to be. It's the typical rub you believers use to try and discredit anyone that doesn't support your line of thinking. You simply tried to recoin the term "denier". Funny, you didn't have any problems writing the rest of your article in English.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby joachim neander » 9 years 6 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 9:02 am)

Did you search with Google? If so, you should be cautious and think, as a good Revisionist: Why did Google not mention first the "Jugendbewegung," the "Dada Bewegung," "Neudeutschland"( a Catholic Bewegung), the "Anschlussbewegung" in Austria, or dozens of other Bewegungen that existed before or at the same time as the Nazis' "Bewegung"?

I see it as your problem that you felt yourself identified with the Nazis and are angry about this. It could have been a compliment. Revisionists Horst Mahler and Sylvia Stolz would have been proud.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 5 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 2:29 pm)

I find the whole thing hard to understand.

I wonder if there were gassings of political commissars and politruks, under the "commissar order" before it was rescinded. Neander mentions a report that says "...about 600 Soviet prisoners including army political indoctrination officers..." If it happened I wonder if they were in actuality all commissars and politruks (political indoctrination officers) and maybe other groups are then falsely added. That's what happened at Buchenwald. Killing commissars and politruks, most of whom were Jewish, turns into "killing Jews" as part of the supposed final solution.

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grenadier
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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby grenadier » 9 years 5 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:04 pm)

Oh if it's not our "honest" "scholar" Mr.Neander, the guy who complains about ad hominem attacks yet in a sly way, in his reply, already finds a way of using it! He writes;
I see it as your problem that you felt yourself identified with the Nazis and are angry about this. It could have been a compliment. Revisionists Horst Mahler and Sylvia Stolz would have been proud.


Mr.Neander loses no time at an oblique attack at revisionists by implying that they are of course, Nazis.
Also, and Mr.Neander of course knows this, neither Mahler nor Sylvia Stolz are revisionists in the true sense of the term, i.e. revisionist researchers. I don't know if Ms.Stolz is a Nazi but one thing however I can say with certainty;
If Germany had many more Sylvias and many less J.Neanders, it would be a much better country, one with much better self-esteem.

And of course that J.Neander has completely ignored my question to him:
since you want us to think of you as a scholar, do you agree with the basic proposition that the holocaust must be normalized as a historical issue, i.e. be treated as other subjects in history where dissenting positions are necessary and a welcome part of the process? Pay attention Mr.Neander, as I go of course beyond the mere tearing down of anti-rev laws such as those in your country


The simple answer is that he is AGAINST the normalization of the holocaust as he treats it in dogmatic and fanatic forms that have nothing to do with real history.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby joachim neander » 9 years 5 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 3:54 pm)

@ grenadier:
You should know that I more than once publicly expressed that I am against laws criminalizing "Holocaust denial, " "The Auschwitz Lie," or whatever the infraction is called. And you should also know that this is the POV of the vast majority of mainstream scholars who are studying the Holocaust, being Jewish or not. I signed relevant petitions, also that of a French group of historians who protest against all laws that make a certain aspect of history legally binding ("memory laws").

If I had another view on the issue, I would not take the floor and discuss matters here.

This does, however, not mean that I agree with your position re. the Holocaust as an historic event.
Last edited by joachim neander on Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby joachim neander » 9 years 5 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:03 pm)

As I am frequently asked questions (which I try to answer as well as I can), I would like to pose a question to the Revisionists who post here:
What would you consider to be "a document" proving the September 1941 gassing in the Auschwitz Bunker (basement of Block 13, late 11)?
You cannot realistically expect an independent investigation committee (e.g. from the ICRC) arriving "the day after," taking photographs and writing a report.
Even if you are convinced that the Aktion did not happen, you should be able to imagine "IF" and say, what you would accept as proof?

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grenadier
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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby grenadier » 9 years 5 days ago (Mon Feb 15, 2010 4:23 pm)

J.Neander:
You should know that I more than once publicly expressed that I am against laws criminalizing "Holocaust denial, " "The Auschwitz Lie," or whatever the infraction is called.


I "should" not know anything. Now that you are telling us, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are beign truthful. You must realize Mr.Neander, as I said before, that it has to go beyond the laws criminalizing the holocaust. In the USA, such laws do not exist(yet) but NOBODY will touch this issue because it means one's own ruin.
Only then, real debate on the holohoax will be made possible. One can only live in hope.. :wink:

JN
And you should also know that this is the POV of the vast majority of mainstream scholars who are studying the Holocaust, being Jewish or not.


I don't think so, they may even say so for the cameras, but we both know that is not true. And many who think there should be no laws only do so tactically, as they know such laws cause people to wonder what the heck is going on. It got me thinking... but holohoax historians surely hope to keep the lid on the box tight, without the laws, such as in the USA.
At any rate, I only very rarely see holocaust historians speaking out against the dogmatization of the holo. WE both know you guys are part of the system.

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby skeptical » 9 years 2 days ago (Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:02 pm)

The amazing thing isn't the details of this particular thread but the fact that Holocaust historians as well researched as Mr. Neander are fighting to simply estahblish that someone, somewhere was gassed and he must rely on "eye witness" testimony.
I think that most people have no idea how little actual physical evidence there is. Mr. Neander's assertion that most mainstream historians welcome an open debate seems to be less than true. If the debates were to turn on points such as "people saw them go in and then later they were dead" rather than on physical evidence it would, I think, go poorly for the college profs who make their living at this..... there may well be more evidence of aliens visiting earth than of millions being gassed to death in ww2. Whenever I visit this page I tremble at the awesome power that is arrayed against the few posters here...
Best regards

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Re: joachim neander has names of 2 gassed

Postby Greg Gerdes » 9 years 2 days ago (Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:14 pm)

Hey joachim, why are you and you holohoaxer friends so afraid of presenting your gassing "proof" on this thread here:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5944


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