Diesel Gassings

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Webmaster » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Feb 25, 2010 2:39 am)

@FPB
There is an answer to your postings at http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f= ... 183#p41183
Webmaster
PS: Moderator 3 is correct, so no German in this forum.DS

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:39 pm)

Now I'm done with Treblinka. The final articles deal with the situation which would have been her and you will see that the witnesses who lie just nonsense. Particularly interesting is the last post, which shows the consequences when one assumes at least a partial truth. The consequence then is that there may have been no motor gassings. Because the suffocation would have been much too fast.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5963&p=41243#p41243

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:39 am)

PS's efforts to analyze the entire range of possible toxic effects of engine exhaust (diesel and gasoline engine exhaust) is commendable for its boldness--but the problems are far more complex than PS imagines. The levels at which various toxic effects occur is so variable that one should proceed with the greatest caution.

Already for carbon monoxide acting alone, the range of COHbg levels at which death occurs varies greatly as the following graph shows:

Image

In at least two carefully examined suicides with automotive exhaust, levels of CO which should have killed in less than five minutes took more than twenty minutes instead. See my website.

The effects of carbon dioxide and reduced oxygen are even more variable. ALL of the toxicology references that I have ever seen will not even attempt to give hard and fast numbers at which those toxic effects will occur. PS should check all of his references much more carefully.

Even for cyanide, there is a wide variation in the effects of what is rightly recognized as an extremely powerful poison. What should kill quickly, in less than five minutes, can easily fail if the intended victims simply hold their breadth as people and prisoners are likely to do. The death process can be prolonged to eighteen minutes as is often the case in American executions.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Mar 15, 2010 9:20 pm)

This CODOH thread shows that one can indeed commit mass murder with diesel exhaust but, and this is so astounding, the lethal factor is the heat of the exhaust and NOT any toxic ingredient such as carbon monoxide.
“Diesel exhaust temperatures normally range from 120 to 720 °C for non-turbocharged systems and 100 to 600 °C for turbocharged systems.”

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6V2P-49HST5X-9&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F30%2F2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=fa3fc8f7a9d0d9ec6ca75cc730958136

Please see page 897 of the linked essay.

Such temperatures would eventually kill anyone exposed to such temperatures. The time needed to reach these temperatures in a chamber heated in this way will vary widely depending on the speed with which the gas is generated and on the amount of cooling before the gas enters the chamber. With a typical 1500 HP Soviet submarine engine, heating will be quite rapid especially at "fast idle." If the holocaust hoax persists, one should rename the chambers that supposedly used diesel exhaust as “h-e-a-t chambers” rather than as “gas chambers.” Of course, to use diesel exhaust for heating is absurd when any controlled fire that is large enough would give the same result without any engine at all.


Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Mar 28, 2010 11:54 pm)

RTG should learn to walk before he tries to run!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Rollo the Ganger » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:51 pm)

I'm trying to figure out how Prattle and company was able not to cook their little beasties in their homemade diesel gas chamber experiment while doing their tests. Maybe Berg can answer that or maybe Prattle et al just made it all up.

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Mar 29, 2010 7:56 pm)

The answer to RTG's riddle has already been given on this thread by PS in his post #118 and in my reply to that post. See my post #417. If RTG had heeded my advice to "learn to walk before you try to run"--he might have avoided humiliating himself once again.

Image

That is from the very first page of the Pattle essay http://www.nazigassings.com/PDFs/Pattle.pdf about those inhalation experiments which used only a small 6 HP diesel engine. You can't cook much of anything when the temperature is only a few degrees above ambient temperature.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:04 pm)

RTG is making a muddle out of the entire issue of heat from a diesel engine. The simple fact is that there is a lot of heat in the exhaust of a diesel engine, especially if it is running at fast idle. What to do with it is the choice any competent engineer, or gas chamber designer makes depending on what he wants to accomplish.

If one wants to kill people by overheating them, one can minimize heat losses before the gas enters the chamber.

If one wants to expose people to whatever toxic gases are present w-i-t-h-o-u-t overheating them, one can let the exhaust cool down before it enters. That is what generally happens when people commit suicide with gasoline engine exhaust. The gasoline engine exhaust is substantially cooled as it passes through roughly eight feet of hose and enters a partially opened side window near the intended suicide victim.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

ps
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:32 am)

In the hot exhaust gases must keep in mind that they had killed a lot faster than the witnesses have alleged. This is the argument refuted: The witnesses have lied obvious, it was not at all these motor gassings.

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Rollo the Ganger » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:18 pm)

It's nice to see PS is back but I'm not quite sure what he's saying. To respond, I don't think prisoners would have been allowed to keep their watches to measure the time it could take to kill someone in a gas chamber. Time perception in a human being varies greatly depending on the state of mind of the observer. As far as Berg's hypothesis that diesel engines would make a poor instrument of mass death I don't see what's left of his argument. Berg states:
1. "Diesel engines don't produce a lethal amount of Carbon Monoxide". Normally not, but modify a diesel engine to burn rich and they will produce CO in quantities similar to gasoline engines. See reference below.
2. "Diesel engines are difficult to put a load on when they are stationary". Not at all. A Diesel Generator is one example. That's what all engines are designed and built for; to put a load on them so they can produce some useful work. Not sit and make a lot of noise.
3. "Diesel engines would bake a person to death before asphyxiating them". See Berg's last response.

From the July 1941 Vol. 31 edition of the American Journal of Public Health and the Nation's Health, the article "Composition of Diesel Engine Exhaust" by Schrenk and Berger (any relation?) pages 673 and 674 the table shows the composition of diesel exhaust with a Fuel to Air Ration of 0.09 (rich mix) as follows:
Oxygen = 0.5%
Carbon Monoxide = 5.5%
Carbon Dioxide = 11.0%
Hydrogen = 2.5%

Can any say, with a straight face, that an hour or so in that environment wouldn't kill everyone in it? Berg? PS? What's your answer?

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:05 pm)

Oh yes, of course, would be such a crazy "diesel" exhaust a man can kill within an hour. But not within 20 to 45 minutes, as was just said of the "witnesses" .. Indeed, such an analysis would have killed even in perhaps 2 minutes. Due to 1000 ° C exhaust gas temperature! The witnesses have not claimed 2 minutes. And no matter how each witness may be between 2 minutes and 45 minutes to distinguish very well. Unless, that he lies so easily and we have just these alleged gassings diesel with 500 or 1500 hp engines.

The analysis also discomplies with any diesel engine exhaust! It may be that the health freak know something about health. But precisely nothing about diesel engines. To this period of 1941, it was likely no diesel engine with a lower lambda value as 1.85. When Saurer diesel engine I have calculated a value of 2.0. This means high oxygen excess ("10%"). The exhaust gas analysis from 1941 but is only spoken by 0.5% O2. This is a typical gasoline engine value!

No one would run a diesel engine in such a state and even write a report about it! This operation comes in a diesel engine not available and would therefore never the subject of investigation!

Again Summary:
Regardless of whether it should have been a diesel engine or a gasoline engine. In both cases, the killing would have been much shorter time than the witnesses have alleged. Not the poisonous gas would have been fatal, but the temperature! Whether the gas chambers at 5000 kg / h 500 ° C hot exhaust, the highly toxic gas or flushed with 500 ° C hot health-fresh forest air, is negligible. In both cases, the Jews in about "2 minutes" would have been dead. Burned. They would not even be able to make a second breath because the lungs had been burned and no longer the "poison gas" could take!

------------
Oh ja, natürlich würde solche ein verücktes "Diesel"-Abgas einen Menschen innerhalb einer Stunde töten können. Aber eben nicht innerhalb von 20 bis 45 Minuten, wie eben von den "Zeugen" behauptet wurde.. Tatsächlich würde eine solche Analyse sogar in vielleicht 2 Minuten töten können. Aufgrund 1000°C Abgastemperatur! Die Zeugen haben aber eben keine 2 Minuten behauptet. Und egal wie, jeder Zeuge kann zwischen 2 Minuten und 45 Minuten sehr gut unterscheiden. Es sei denn, daß er einfach lügt und dies haben wir eben bei diesen behaupteten Dieselvergasungen mit 500 oder 1500 PS Motoren.

Die Analyse entspricht zudem keinem Dieselmotorabgas! Mag sein, daß die Gesundheitsapostel etwas von der Gesundheit verstehen. Aber eben nichts von Dieselmotoren. Um diese Zeit von 1941 gab es mit hoher Wahrscheinlichkeit keinen Dieselmotor mit einem geringeren Lambda-Wert als 1,85. Beim Saurer-Dieselmotor habe ich einen Wert von 2,0 errechnet. Das bedeutet, hohen Sauerstoffüberschuß ("10 %"). In der Abgasanalyse von 1941 wird aber nur von 0,5% O2 gesprochen. Das ist ein typischer Ottomotor-Wert!

Kein Mensch würde einen Dieselmotor in solch einem Zustand betreiben und darüber sogar noch einen Bericht schreiben! Dieser Betriebszustand kommt bei einem Dieselmotor nicht vor und wäre daher niemals Untersuchungsgegenstand!

Noch einmal Zusammenfassung:
Unabhängig davon, ob es sich um einen Dieselmotor oder einen Ottomotor gehandelt haben soll. In beiden Fällen wären die Tötungszeiten weitaus kürzer gewesen, als die Zeugen behauptet haben. Nicht die Abgasgiftigkeit wäre tödlich gewesen, sondern die Temperatur! Ob man die Gaskammern mit 5000 kg/h 500°C heißen hochgiftigen Abgasen durchspült oder mit 500°C heißer gesundheitsfördernder frischer Waldluft, ist unerheblich. In beiden Fällen wären die Juden in rund "2 Minuten" tot gewesen. Verbrannt. Sie hätten nicht einmal mehr einen zweiten Atemzug machen können, weil die Lungen verbrannt gewesen wären und gar nicht mehr das "Giftgas" hätten aufnehmen können!

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:08 pm)

Does RTG have the foggiest idea as to how Schrenk and Berger got their diesel engine "B" to operate at a fuel/air ratio of 0.09? Did they tweak the engine somehow, or what?

Please explain, RTG. Just how did they do it?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Rollo the Ganger
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Rollo the Ganger » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 5:34 pm)

For you PS, here is the link to the article I sited:

http://ajph.aphapublications.org/cgi/reprint/31/7/669

If that doesn't work go to Google and type in: Schrenk and Berger Diesel Exhaust 1941. The article should pop up. Please read it and if you think, as Berg does, that the authors are lying about achieving a fuel to air ratio of .09 + then please tell me why you believe they are lying (or possibly mistaken?). I personally believe them just as I believe Prattle et al in their experiment were able to, as Berg pointed out most eloquently, keep the exhaust temperature just a few degrees above ambient temperature. You don't seem to think that possible. You'll also notice in Schrenk and Berger's report that the exhaust composition gets even worse than what I mentioned.

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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:06 pm)

RTG asked the following question: Can any say, with a straight face, that an hour or so in that environment wouldn't kill everyone in it? Berg? PS? What's your answer?

The answer to that question is: YES!

Maybe now, RTG can tackle my questions.

Does RTG have the foggiest idea as to how Schrenk and Berger got their diesel engine "B" to operate at a fuel/air ratio of 0.09? Did they tweak the engine somehow, or what? Please explain, RTG. Just how did they do it?

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

ps
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Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 8:06 pm)

@RDG
Sorry, it is not clear to me what you want to say to these idiotic experiments. You tell me that the diesel fumes should be toxic? Well, then you look directly at the corresponding temperatures, which result from the high fuel / air values, which then resulted from the "very poisonous" fumes: 1000 ° C!

This then means only, that the Jews would have died even more quickly because of the temperature as reported! The discrepancy between truth and lies will only continue to grow!

I have always noticed that the Holocaust believers argue always in the wrong direction.
--------


Entschuldigung, aber mir ist noch nicht klar, was Sie mit diesen idiotischen Experimenten sagen wollen. Doch nicht etwa, daß die Dieselabgase doch giftig sein sollen? Nun, dann sehen Sie sich direkt einmal die zugehörigen Temperaturen an, welche aus den den hohen Sprit / Luft Werten resultieren, welche dann aus den "ganz giftigen" Abgasen resultieren: 1000°C!

Das bedeutet dann nur, daß die Juden noch schneller wegen der Temperatur gestorben wären, als berichtet! Die Diskrepanz zwischen Wahrheit und Lüge wird nur noch größer!

Ich habe schon immer bemerkt, daß die Holocaustgläubigen immer in die falsche Richtung argumentieren.


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