Diesel Gassings

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
jnovitz
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:40 pm

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:25 pm)

It seems to me that both Prattle and Schrenk and Berger managed to get lethal, albeit it slowly lethal in the case of Prattle, exhaust gas out of diesel engines. And they did it the same way, by altering the engine in order to get incomplete combustion of the diesel fuel by a limitation of oxygen.

With Prattle, he achieved this but partially obstructing the air intake.

With Schrenk and Berger, they seem to have worked their air/fuel ratios, according to table 2, by measuring the exhaust gas volume and dividing by the fuel consumption

To quote
Furthermore to obtain satisfactory performance with gasoline engines, the fuel-air ratio is adjust so that there is too little air in the mixture for complete combustion of the fuel, thus producing considerable quantities monoxide. In contrast, Diesel engines can be operated at fuel-air ratios such that an excess of air is always present, and combustion proceeds much more nearly toward completion
...
The engines were adjusted in accordance wtih recommendations of the manufacturers except in the tests in which the adjustment of the fuel pump was altered to permit an increase in fuel injection
....
Effect of Fuel-Air Ratio on Composition of Exhaust Gas
The effect of fuel-air ratio on exhaust gases from internal-combustion engines is extremely important from the standpoint of hygienic atmospheric conditions. Figure 2 shows the relationship of composition of exhaust gas to fuel air ratios ranging from about 0.01 to 0.094 lb of fuel per lb of air. At a fuel-air ratio of 0.0679 there would be, theoretically, with the fuel used in these tests, just enough oxygen to burn completely all the fuel present, and this ratio is designated as the "chemically correct mixture" Thus, the fuel-air ratios studied included those in which air was present in considerable excess as well as those with insufficient air for complete combustion. The engines as received from the manufactuers were adjusted so that the maximum fuel-air ratio for engine A was 0.042 and for engine B 0.058 lb per lb. The excess air present under these conditions was 61 and 17 per cent respectively. It was necessary to change the manufacturer's adjustment of the fuel pump to obtain higher ratios at full throttle and this was done with engine B. The maxium ratio studient was 0.09, and at this ratio only 70 per cent of the air required for complete combustion was present


So in summary, you can get lethal levels of carbon monoxide out of diesel engine by either reducing the air intake or increasing the fuel intake. Both requiring a physical, mechanical alteration to the engine. From table 2 it appears you have to increase the fuel intake about 50% over and above the manufacturer's maximum for what is presumably a standard diesel configuration.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:12 pm)

Jnovitz's explanation as to how Schrenk and Berger got their engine to operate at a high fuel/air ratio (0.094) is wrong. I will give the correct answer after RTG has had a bit more time to try to give his answer.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

User avatar
jnovitz
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 351
Joined: Wed May 16, 2007 1:40 pm

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:37 pm)

Jnovitz's explanation as to how Schrenk and Berger got their engine to operate at a high fuel/air ratio (0.094) is wrong. I will give the correct answer after RTG has had a bit more time to try to give his answer.


Actually I didnt give an explanation, I just quoted the explanation that Schrenk and Berger gave:

The engines as received from the manufactuers were adjusted so that the maximum fuel-air ratio for engine A was 0.042 and for engine B 0.058 lb per lb. The excess air present under these conditions was 61 and 17 per cent respectively. It was necessary to change the manufacturer's adjustment of the fuel pump to obtain higher ratios at full throttle and this was done with engine B. The maxium ratio studient was 0.09, and at this ratio only 70 per cent of the air required for complete combustion was present


Of course, the explanation that Schrenk and Berger gave may be wrong, in which case it is Schrenk and Berger that is wrong and not me. In any case, I await with interest until Mr Berg thinks the alignment of stars is right in order to reveal their error.

Elsewhere they state:
In the Diesel, or compression-ignition engine, fuel and air are mixed directly in the cylinders. An essentially constant volume of air is drawn into the cylinders and compressed. Near the end of the compression stroke, fuel under high pressure is sprayed into the air, which, because it has been compressed, is at high enough temperature to cause spontaneous ignition of the fuel. The power output of Diesel engines is controlled by regulation of the quantity injected into the cylinders by a fuel pump capable of delivering varying quantities of fuel at high pressure.

It is evident that the ratio of fuel to air in the mixture supplied to the gasoline engine must be restricted to proportions that are within the inflammable or explosive limits of gasoline-air mixtures. The range of ratios of fuel to air within which a gasoline engine operates is therefore limited as compared to the fuel-air ratios obtained in Diesel engines, where air supply is essentially constant and fuel quantity is varied to meet power-output demand.


Again, this is Schrenk and Berger's view, not mine

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:02 am)

Well, Jnovitz if you had read Schrenk and Berger carefully you might have realized that far more was involved than you picked out of their essay.

I'll give a bit more time for RTG to give his answer without waiting for any stars to align. Tomorrow I will reveal all even if RTG gives no answer.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 2 months ago (Fri Apr 02, 2010 11:10 pm)

Yesterday, April 1 (see this page of this thread) I put some questions to RTG which he has still not answered.

Does RTG have the foggiest idea as to how Schrenk and Berger got their diesel engine "B" to operate at a fuel/air ratio of 0.09? Did they tweak the engine somehow, or what? Please explain, RTG. Just how did they do it?


Jnovitz offered an answer which misses the most important feature needed to get any diesel to operate at high fuel/air ratios: L-O-A-D ! If one simply tries to push lots of fuel into the diesel cylinders without sufficient l-o-a-d, the engine will simply race to higher RPM's--and as the engine speed approaches red line speed (maximum safe engine speed) a speed governor or controller inside the engine, usually within the fuel injection pump assembly, will cutback on the fuel even if the driver wants to add more fuel, even if he is pushing the fuel peddle-to-the-metal.

Schrenk and Berger explain how they applied load on page 671 of their essay.

Each [diesel engine] was mounted in a "power unit," including radiator, fan, clutch, fuel system, and starting mechanism. Each unit was coupled to an electric dynamometer to permit operation at various speeds and power outputs. ...


The power output had to be matched by the load imposed by the dynamometer. Simply attaching a generator to a diesel does not produce a load unless the generator is connected to something that uses the current generated.

I had actually made more or less the same point to RTG in my Post #431 (February 16, 2010) on page 3 of this thread. RTG did not get it then and, apparently, he still does not get it.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 2 months ago (Tue Apr 06, 2010 10:32 pm)

RTG has been working hard to find some flaws in my essays or comments. I do appreciate such checking of my essays and arguments. Sometimes I actually have made mistakes which I try, subsequently, to correct as rapidly as I can.

RTG should cite where I actually said something that he attributes to me. Otherwise, RTG's comments will lose all credibility before I even start to reply to his nonsense. If RTG refuses to quote accurately (word for word with punctuation), he really should go back to elementary school and start over.

As to "Henderson's Rule," it was all spelled out by Yandell Henderson (hence the name) and Howard W, Haggard in 1943 in their classic book on the subject entitled: NOXIOUS GASES and the Principles of Respiration Influencing their Action (NY: Reinhold Publishing, 1943), pages 167-8. There we have the following which has been widely accepted and used ever since:

When the time of exposure is measured in hours, and the concentrations of carbon monoxide are expressed in parts per million, the physiological effects may be roughly defined by the equations:
Time X concentration = 300: no perceptible effect
Time X concentration = 600: a just appreciable effect
Time X concentration = 900: headache and nausea
Time X concentration = 1,500: dangerous


The same equations, except in parts per 10,000, already appeared in: Yandell Henderson, Adventures in Respiration (London: Bailliere, Tindall & Cox, 1938) page 113, Table VI.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

ps
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 174
Joined: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:29 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby ps » 1 decade 2 months ago (Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:47 am)

@ RDG

I still do not know what you want. You obviously have not yet realized that your "strategy" only shows that the Jews have lied in their motor alleged gassings! They have claimed that is much too long killing time! Namely, 20 to 45 minutes!

In fact, were in motor operating conditions, where in fact poisonous gases are produced to be expected, much shorter killing time!

Not because of the toxicity but because of the temperature of the exhaust! If "poison gas" produces the engine is under full load and this means maximum temperature of the exhaust! Namely, about 1000 ° C!

At another point, I had already shown that even in normal diesel at full load the exhaust temperature is rapidly fatal. I have also shown that the exhaust from gasoline engines are a bit faster fatal. Because they are still hot.

When a diesel is operated so in an area such as a petrol, so lambda = 1, one has the same temperature as in gasoline engines. In contrast, the toxicity with respect to CO is absolutely minimal!

From this dilemma, they will not come out. If the cold gases to be fatal because of CO, has already claimed the killing times be respected. Much more they will be undercut if they are normally warm and this is precisely independent of the CO content. Because of the very rapid killing by normal full load diesel exhaust emissions (CO = 0%) It's just absurd to trim a diesel engine operating on one of lambda = 1 in order to still get some CO!

The witness statements are so that they stand very strongly with the reality gap. So there are allegations imagination! The testimonies are so alone refuted because of the stupidity of the witnesses already!

You talk about the backside of the moon!

---------
@RDG

Ich weiß immer noch nicht, was Sie eigentlich wollen. Sie haben offensichtlich nocht nicht erkannt, daß Ihre "Strategie" nur aufzeigt, daß die Juden bei ihren angeblichen motorischen Vergasungen gelogen haben! Sie haben nämlich viel zu lange Tötungszeiten behauptet! Nämlich 20 bis 45 Minuten!

Tatsächlich wären bei motorischen Betriebszuständen, wo tatsächlich giftige Abgase produziert werden, weitaus kürzere Tötungszeiten zu erwarten!

Nicht etwa wegen der Giftigkeit sondern wegen der Temperatur der Abgase! Wenn "Giftgas" produziert wird arbeitet der Motor im Volllastbetrieb und dies bedeutet maximale Temperatur der Abgase! Nämlich rund 1000°C !

An anderer Stelle hatte ich schon gezeigt, daß bereits beim normalen Diesel Vollastbetrieb die Abgastemperatur schnell tödlich ist. Ebenfalls habe ich gezeigt, daß die Abgase von Ottomotoren noch etwas schneller tödlich sind. Weil sie noch heißer sind.

Wenn ein Diesel daher in einem Bereich wie ein Otto betrieben wird, also Lambda = 1, hat man dieselben Temperatuiren wie beim Ottomotor. Dagegen ist die Giftigkeit bzgl. CO noch absolut minimal!

Aus dieser Zwickmühle kommen sie nicht heraus. Wenn die kalten Abgase wegen CO tödlich sein sollen, werden bereits die behaupteten Tötungszeiten unterschritten. Noch viel stärker werden sie unterschritten, wenn sie normal warm sind und dies ist eben unabhängig vom CO Gehalt. Wegen der sehr schnellen Tötung auch mit normalen Vollastdieselabgasen (CO = 0 %) ist es nur unsinnig, einen Dieselmotoren auf einen Betriebszustand von Lambda =1 zu trimmen, um noch etwas CO zu erhalten!

Die Zeugenbehauptungen sind so, daß sie eben mit der Realität stark in Diskrepanz stehen. Es sind also Phantasiebehauptungen! Die Zeugenaussagen sind also alleine wegen der Dummheit der Zeugen bereits widerlegt!

Sie reden von der Rückseite des Mondes!

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 2 months ago (Mon Apr 12, 2010 8:53 pm)

On Wed., March 31 ( page 7 of this thread), RTG wrote the following:
Berg states:
1. "Diesel engines don't produce a lethal amount of Carbon Monoxide". Normally not, but modify a diesel engine to burn rich and they will produce CO in quantities similar to gasoline engines. See reference below.
2. "Diesel engines are difficult to put a load on when they are stationary". Not at all. A Diesel Generator is one example. That's what all engines are designed and built for; to put a load on them so they can produce some useful work. Not sit and make a lot of noise.
3. "Diesel engines would bake a person to death before asphyxiating them". See Berg's last response.


Does RTG even know what a quotation is? Cite the page (or subheading if there is no page number) and the essay for the words that you attribute to me, RTG. Do you even understand what I am talking about, RTG? Can you even read? Paraphrasing is entirely different from quoting.

If one does a Google Search for any of the three groups of words RTG attributes to me, all one gets are the posts on this thread that RTG concocted himself.

I think the moderator should seriously review RTG's mental qualifications before allowing him to continue on this forum. The subject matter here, especially when it is a bit technical, is hard enough without someone distorting and lying as consistently as RTG has, even with his most recent posts on this page.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 1 decade 2 months ago (Wed Apr 14, 2010 11:49 pm)

RTG may now understand the meaning of the term: "load." It has taken a long time if he does finally understand that term.

But there is another term that he will probably never understand and that is : "overload."

Can you imagine what that term means, RTG? And how might that apply to anything being discussed here? I discussed it already in my first essay about diesels more than twenty-five years ago.

Give it a try, RTG. :blob:

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

User avatar
fountainhead
Member
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby fountainhead » 8 years 5 months ago (Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:28 pm)

"Q. Was it manufactured by an engine, from the exhaust of a diesel engine? A. Yes. It was gas from an engine. They put in Ropa, which was a kind of oil, a crude oil, and the fumes entered the gas chambers."
Testimony of Eliahu Rosenberg: Adolf Eichmann Trial - Session 66, 6 June 1961

Can anyone explain to me what ropa is? Is it a type of oil that would emit a toxic exhaust when burned? I was thinking that's one possible route for the exterminationist crowd to take if they realize they can't explain the carbon monoxide story. But I can't even seem to find a definition anywhere of what ropa is, other than in relation to Rosenberg's testimony.
Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present controls the past.

Malle
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 339
Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:53 pm
Location: Sweden

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Malle » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:21 pm)

fountainhead wrote:Can anyone explain to me what ropa is?


I believe its Naphtha in polish. :wink:

To make my self clearer:
In older usage, "naphtha" simply meant crude oil, but this usage is now obsolete in English.

The Ukrainian word нафта (lit. nafta), the Russian word нефть (lit. neft') and the Persian naft ( نفت) mean "crude oil". Also, in Italy, Czech Republic, Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Croatia, Slovenia nafta (нафта in Serbian Cyrillic transcription) is colloquially used to indicate diesel fuel and crude oil. In Slovakia, nafta was historically used for both diesel fuel and crude oil, but its use for crude oil is now obsolete[4] and it generally indicates diesel fuel (crude oil is referred to as ropa[5]). In Bulgarian, nafta means diesel fuel, while neft means crude oil. "Nafta" is also used in Argentina and Uruguay to refer to gasoline. In Poland, the "birthplace" of petroleum industry, word "nafta" means kerosene.[6]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naphtha
I must be a mushroom - because everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me with lots of bullshit.

User avatar
fountainhead
Member
Member
Posts: 87
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 8:46 pm

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby fountainhead » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:57 am)

Ah, thanks for that. It had been bugging me. So if Rosenberg is saying they put crude oil into the engine, would that be any more toxic than diesel?
Who controls the past controls the future.
Who controls the present controls the past.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 938
Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2003 11:16 am

Re: Diesel Gassings

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:12 am)

Ropa, whatever that is, would NOT be any more toxic than conventional diesel fuel because of the vast excess of air--above and beyond what is actually needed for complete combustion of the fuel.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything athttp://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Archie and 3 guests