Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

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Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby grenadier » 9 years 7 months ago (Sat Feb 27, 2010 6:29 pm)

Folks, it appears that Elie Wiesel stole the identity of a real deportee and probably was NEVER interned at Birkenau, Auschwitz, Monowitz, nor at Buchenwald! Have a look at the article below;

Elie Wiesel: “The Most Authoritative Living Witness” of The Shoah?
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By Carlo Mattogno

On 27 January 2010, the tenth “Holocaust Remembrance Day”, Elie Wiesel was invited into Montecitorio Hall, the seat of the Chamber of Deputies of the Italian Republic where he had the opportunity to give a brief speech. The president of the Chamber, Gianfranco Fini, introduced him as “the most authoritative living witness of the horrors of the Shoah among the survivors of the Nazi concentration camps”.[1] But is he really a witness?

Is Elie Wiesel an impostor?

On 3 March 2009, a Hungarian website published an article entitled Még mindig kísérti a haláltábor (The extermination camp is still tempting)[2] and outlining important revelations by Miklós Grüner, a former deportee to Auschwitz. The article was translated and appeared the following day under the title Auschwitz Survivor Claims Elie Wiesel is an Impostor[3]. The text reads as follows:

«In May 1944 , when Miklos Gruner was 15, he was deported from Hungary to Auschwitz-Birkenau with his mother and father as well as both a younger and an elder brother. He says that his mother and his younger brother were immediately gassed after their arrival in the camp. Then he, his elder brother and their father had an inmate number tattooed on their arms and were sent to perform hard work in a synthetic fuel factory linked to IG Farben where the father died six months later. After that, the elder brother was sent to Mauthausen and, as the young Miklos was then alone, two elder Jewish inmates who were also Hungarians and friends with his late father took him under their protection. These two protectors of the young Miklos were the Lazar and Abraham Wiesel brothers.

In the following months, Miklos Gruner and the Wiesel brothers became good friends. Lazar Wiesel was 31 years old in 1944. Miklos never forgot the number Lazar was tattooed with by the Nazis: A-7713. In January 1945, as the Russian army was coming, the inmates were transferred to Buchenwald. During the ten days this transfer took, partly by foot, partly by train, more than half of the inmates died and amongst them was Abraham, the elder brother of Lazar Wiesel. In April 8, 1945, the US army liberated Buchenwald. Miklos and Lazar were amongst the survivors of the camp. As Miklos had tuberculosis, he was sent in a Swiss clinic and therefore was separated from Lazar. After recovering, Miklos emigrated to Australia while his elder brother, who also survived the war, established himself in Sweden.

Years later, in 1986, Miklos was contacted by the Swedish journal Sydsvenska Dagbladet in Malmo and invited to meet “an old friend” named Elie Wiesel… As Miklos answered that he doesn`t know anyone with this name, he was told Elie Wiesel was the same person Miklos knew in the Nazi camps under the name Lazar Wiesel and with the inmate number A-7713… Miklos still remembered that number and he was therefore convinced at that point that he was going to meet his old friend Lazar and happily accepted the invitation to meet him at the Savoj Hotel in Stockholm on December 14, 1986. Miklos recalls:

“I was very happy at the idea of meeting Lazar but when I confronted the so-called ‘Elie Wiesel’, I was stunned to see a man I didn`t recognize at all, who didn`t even speak Hungarian or Yiddish and instead he was speaking English in a strong French accent. Therefore our meeting was over in about ten minutes. As a goodbye gift, the man gave me his book entitled ‘Night’ of which he claimed to be the author. I accepted the book I didn`t know at that time but told everyone there that this man was not the person he pretended to be!”

Miklos recalls that during this strange meeting, Elie Wiesel refused to show him the tattooed number on his arm, saying he didn`t want to exhibit his body. Miklos adds that Elie Wiesel showed his tattooed number afterward to an Israeli journalist who Miklos met and this journalist told Miklos that he didn`t have time to identify the number but… was certain it wasn`t a tattoo. Miklos says:

“After that meeting with Elie Wiesel, I spent twenty years of research and found out that the man calling himself Elie Wiesel has never been in a Nazi concentration camp since he was not included in any official list of detainees”.

Miklos also found out that the book Elie Wiesel gave him in 1986 as something he has written himself was in fact written in Hungarian in 1955 by Miklos’ old friend Lazar Wiesel and published in Paris under the title “Un di Velt hot Gesvigen”, meaning approximately “The World Kept Silent”. The book was then shortened and rewritten in French as well as in English in order to be published under the author`s name Elie Wiesel in 1958, under the french title “La Nuit” and the English title “Night”. Ten million copies of the book were sold in the world by Elie Wiesel who even received a Nobel Peace prize for it in 1986 while – says Miklos – the real author Lazar Wiesel was mysteriously missing…

“Elie Wiesel never wanted to meet me again”, says Miklos. “He became very successful; he takes 25 thousand dollars for a 45 minutes speech on the Holocaust. I have officially reported to the FBI in Los Angeles. I have also complained to governments and media, in the US and Sweden with no result.

I have received anonymous calls telling me I could be shot if I don`t shut up but I am not afraid of death any more. I have deposited the whole dossier in four different countries and, if I died suddenly, they would be made public. The world must know that Elie Wiesel is an impostor and I am going to tell it, I am going to publish the truth in a book called “Stolen Identity A7713”.”»

Miklós Grüner’s declarations have been repeated many times, but have not caused any major research effort. We will thus scrutinize them critically but soberly.


For the full story visit http://www.revblog.codoh.com/2010/02/el ... the-shoah/

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby Malle » 9 years 7 months ago (Sun Feb 28, 2010 8:39 am)

This could turn out to be very interesting if true. I found a picture from Buchenwald (text added by me) where it’s claimed that Elie Wiesel is on it. But Gruner say he isn’t. :mrgreen:
Henry Makow Com wrote:
buchen_gruner.jpg
Click on photo to enlarge

Link: http://www.savethemales.ca/translated_from_the_hungarian.html

PERSON IDENTIFIED AS ELIE WIESEL IN FAMOUS BUCHENWALD PHOTO IS NOT WIESEL

Miklos Gruner and "Elie Wiesel" are in the most famous Holocaust Picture, taken at Buchenwald on April 16, 1945. Gruner is the boy at the extreme left on the bottom row, while "Wiesel" is 7th from left, middle row. "Wiesel" looks pretty old to be born in 1928, i.e 17 years old. Compare with Miklos Gruner who was 16. According to Gruner this man is not Lazar Wiesel or Elie Wiesel. He implies neither Lazar Wiesel nor Elie Wiesel are this picture.

"Itt voltunk 1945. április 8-ig, itt szabadítottak fel minket a bevonuló amerikai csapatok. Én rajta is vagyok azon a fényképen, amelyet a táborról készítettek és bejárta a világot."

Translation: "We (himself and Lazar) were there (Buchenwald) until April 8, 1945 when we were liberated by the Americans. I myself am even in that camp photo which was taken then by the Americans and was shown all over the world."

My correspondent writes: "the identification number given for "Elie Wiesel" on the picture (123565) isn`t even the number Gruner says was tattooed on Lazar Wiesel."

Here is a very large and high resolution copy of the Buchenwald photo: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ration.jpg

Look at the man in the photo presented as Elie Wiesel: he is not a teenager but a man in his late 20's or 30's.
I must be a mushroom - because everyone keeps me in the dark and feeds me with lots of bullshit.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 7 months ago (Mon Mar 01, 2010 12:48 am)

My correspondent writes: "the identification number given for "Elie Wiesel" on the picture (123565) isn`t even the number Gruner says was tattooed on Lazar Wiesel."


Thats because 123565 is a Buchenwald number that werent tattooed. The Auschwitz number was A-7731.

The Buchenwald registration card to Lazar Wiesel has both numbers, but a birthdate of 1913.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby senesino » 3 years 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 4:35 am)

The most strange thing about “Elie Wiesel” is that he speaks English with a Serbian accent and cannot speak Hungarian. The real Wiesel was supposed to have come from a Hungarian speaking part of Romania. On the internet there is an entry card for “Elie Wiesel” from the Yugoslavian embassy in Paris, for when he entered France from Yugoslavia in 1954. While it shows his photo, it does not show his real name, which must be something Serbian. It is unlikely he is a Jew as he looks much more like a Serb. It seems the reason he came to France was to pose as Elie Wiesel when the French author Mauriac wrote Elie Wiesel’s “Night”, adapted from the real Wiesel’s Yiddish book “un di welt hot geschwigen”.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby Reviso » 3 years 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 1:07 pm)

senesino wrote:The most strange thing about “Elie Wiesel” is that he speaks English with a Serbian accent and cannot speak Hungarian. The real Wiesel was supposed to have come from a Hungarian speaking part of Romania. On the internet there is an entry card for “Elie Wiesel” from the Yugoslavian embassy in Paris, for when he entered France from Yugoslavia in 1954. While it shows his photo, it does not show his real name, which must be something Serbian. It is unlikely he is a Jew as he looks much more like a Serb. It seems the reason he came to France was to pose as Elie Wiesel when the French author Mauriac wrote Elie Wiesel’s “Night”, adapted from the real Wiesel’s Yiddish book “un di welt hot geschwigen”.


May I ask a reference for the fact that he cannot speak Hungarian and a link to the Internet page with the entry card for “Elie Wiesel” from the Yugoslavian embassy in Paris ? Thanks in advance.
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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby sweetie pie » 3 years 4 months ago (Sat May 28, 2016 3:46 pm)

senesino wrote:The most strange thing about “Elie Wiesel” is that he speaks English with a Serbian accent and cannot speak Hungarian. The real Wiesel was supposed to have come from a Hungarian speaking part of Romania. On the internet there is an entry card for “Elie Wiesel” from the Yugoslavian embassy in Paris, for when he entered France from Yugoslavia in 1954. While it shows his photo, it does not show his real name, which must be something Serbian. It is unlikely he is a Jew as he looks much more like a Serb. It seems the reason he came to France was to pose as Elie Wiesel when the French author Mauriac wrote Elie Wiesel’s “Night”, adapted from the real Wiesel’s Yiddish book “un di welt hot geschwigen”.



Carolyn Yeager published an image of this entry card in February 2011 at Elie Wiesel Cons The World. http://www.eliewieseltattoo.com/elie-wiesel-and-the-mossad-part-iii/ She wrote underneath it:

Document with Wiesel’s picture attached, dated 1954, issued by the Yugoslavian embassy in Paris . “Potpis” is Serbo-Croatian for “signature.” There is no mention of travel to Yugoslavia during this time, or any time, in Wiesel’s memoir. He appears thinner and more fragile-looking than in earlier photos when he was younger.

This is still a mystery, but it doesn't mean Wiesel is Serbian. He also absolutely looks like a Jew. The name eli wiesel is on the document. If you know Serbian you should be able to tell us something about it.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby senesino » 3 years 2 months ago (Tue Jul 26, 2016 11:56 am)

If "Elie Wiesel" is not Serbian, then what nationality is he?

I used to spend a lot of time in Hungary, and the Hungarians have a completely different language and accent.
Someone I knew well in Budapest was a builder from Novi Sad in Serbia. When I compared how he and "Elie Wiesel" spoke English, it was impossible to tell the difference. They also looked somewhat similar.

The real mystery is why "Elie Wiesel" entered Paris in 1954 from Yugoslavia. The other mystery is why his entry card into Paris does not give his name. Have you ever seen an identity card that does not give the person's name? This part of the card has obviously been cut off so we cannot see his true name.

I also disagree that "Elie Wiesel" "looks Jewish". Jews are descended from the East European Khazars, and their features resemble those of people from Armenia and Georgia. His facial features are in fact much more similar to those of native Serbian people. As "Elie Wiesel" was such a con man, he could have easily conned people into thinking he was Jewish when he was not.

Then there is the mystery of why the USA used "Elie Wiesel" as their ambassador in Serbia and Croatia during the war there. This must have been because he spoke Serbo-Croat.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby sweetie pie » 3 years 2 months ago (Tue Jul 26, 2016 6:01 pm)

senesino wrote:If "Elie Wiesel" is not Serbian, then what nationality is he?

I used to spend a lot of time in Hungary, and the Hungarians have a completely different language and accent.
Someone I knew well in Budapest was a builder from Novi Sad in Serbia. When I compared how he and "Elie Wiesel" spoke English, it was impossible to tell the difference. They also looked somewhat similar.

The real mystery is why "Elie Wiesel" entered Paris in 1954 from Yugoslavia. The other mystery is why his entry card into Paris does not give his name. Have you ever seen an identity card that does not give the person's name? This part of the card has obviously been cut off so we cannot see his true name.

I also disagree that "Elie Wiesel" "looks Jewish". Jews are descended from the East European Khazars, and their features resemble those of people from Armenia and Georgia. His facial features are in fact much more similar to those of native Serbian people. As "Elie Wiesel" was such a con man, he could have easily conned people into thinking he was Jewish when he was not.

Then there is the mystery of why the USA used "Elie Wiesel" as their ambassador in Serbia and Croatia during the war there. This must have been because he spoke Serbo-Croat.



None of your arguments have any force to them.

I took what is written on the top line, left, of the "entry card" to be Eli Wiesel's name, handwritten by the one whose signature is at the bottom. However, it may not be so. Therefore, this "entry card" could be some kind of hoax, or simply belong to someone else. It never fit in to any known facts about Wiesel anyway.

This is certainly not a picture of Elie Wiesel in 1954, and maybe not at all. I thought if resembled him, but looking at the various pics we know are him, from age 16 to 27, it actually does not. Wiesel had a much heavier face and always wild hair. Look at the small photo just above the "entry card" on the page I linked to in my above comment. That is Elie Wiesel in 1952-3. So your theories are knocked down since they are solely based on this card.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby borjastick » 3 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 28, 2016 12:40 am)

Could be that we are all so obsessed by the man who called himself Elie Wiesel that we forgot to look in a different direction. The real pursuit should be that of Lazar Wiesel. Find him and what became of him and voila you have the true story about the man who became Elie Wiesel.

Any thoughts?
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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby sweetie pie » 3 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:10 am)

borjastick wrote:Could be that we are all so obsessed by the man who called himself Elie Wiesel that we forgot to look in a different direction. The real pursuit should be that of Lazar Wiesel. Find him and what became of him and voila you have the true story about the man who became Elie Wiesel.

Any thoughts?


Yes. The first thing you should do is become informed. Read, or re-read, the article by Carlo Mattogno: http://revblog.codoh.com/2010/05/the-ri ... ie-wiesel/ from 2010. As Mattogno writes:

Problems arise when we want to trace Lazar Wiesel’s fate at Buchenwald and after this departure from the camp. Actually, this Lazar Wiesel, born at Máramarossziget on 4 September 1913, registered at Buchenwald as 123565, disappears and instead we have a Lázár Wiesel who takes his place, but with a different date of birth and a different ID number.

No trace of Lazar Wiesel who was #A7713 at Auschwitz can be found.

Maybe you can do better?

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby borjastick » 3 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:31 am)

Thank you sweetie pie you made my point stand up perfectly. The issue is what really happened to Lazar Wiesel.
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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby senesino » 3 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:51 pm)

"Your theories are knocked down since they are solely based on this card."

My theories are not based on this card but on the fact that "Elie Wiesel" spoke English with a Serbian accent. How could he have done this if he was not Serbian?

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby sweetie pie » 3 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 29, 2016 10:22 pm)

senesino wrote:"Your theories are knocked down since they are solely based on this card."

My theories are not based on this card but on the fact that "Elie Wiesel" spoke English with a Serbian accent. How could he have done this if he was not Serbian?


No one but you has said he spoke English with a Serbian accent. You don't offer any concrete proof about accents. It's time you gave up.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby senesino » 3 years 2 months ago (Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:29 am)

"No one but you has said he spoke English with a Serbian accent. You don't offer any concrete proof about accents. It's time you gave up."

Is this a logical argument? Must something be said by more than one person to be true? In actual fact, there are several Hungarians who have posted that Elie Wiesel did not have a Hungarian accent. One Hungarian posted on the Henry Makow site as follows:

http://www.henrymakow.com/translated_fr ... arian.html

"I am a Hungarian and I can tell you that Mr. Wiesel doesn't have a Hungarian accent. Miklos Gruner also noticed that. He speaks English with some other accent. My guess is that he has some kind of Slavic accent. But this is only a guess. People can fake identities but cannot fake handwriting or accent. Here is an idea. Would be interesting to ask the opinion of an accent expert or an accent coach. Show them a sample of Mr Wiesel's speech and say Mr. Soros'; two video clips from you-tube to compare. Both have Hungarian backgrounds. It can be very easily established that Mr. Soros has a Hungarian accent, but what kinds of accent Mr Wiesel has? Finding out this would clarify where he is coming from. Hungarian accent can be easy to picked out if you watch out for the pronunciation of vowels like i, e, a, u. Hungarian vowels are rounded unlike English vowels, which are un-rounded. Hungarians pronounce English words with rounded vowels, this is where the typical accent is coming fro - See more at: http://www.henrymakow.com/translated_fr ... 0NXPr.dpuf

Logically you would need to seek the opinion of an accent expert or coach before you could dimiss my opinion with any integrity. You do not say what accent Elie Wiesel spoke English in, it must have been from some country and we know from Hungarians it was not a Hungarian accent. What accent do you think he spoke English in? I would be intrigued to know your opinion. I am certain he spoke with a Serbian accent, as I had a Serbian friend in Budapest who spoke English in exactly the same way, he even looked similar. You cannot just say he did not speak English with a Serbian accent without saying what particular foreign accent he did have.

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Re: Elie Wiesel: Identity Theft

Postby Kingfisher » 3 years 2 months ago (Fri Aug 12, 2016 9:45 am)

We cannot make sweeping statements about accents without more detailed knowledge and the opinions of people qualified to judge. Wiesel was from the part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire absorbed into Romania, though temporarily restored to Hungary during the war. The whole area was a patchwork of languages and Wiesel's own language was Yiddish. Wiesel then lived a long time in France and settled in the US. There are all sorts of influences on his accent.

Something that would be more profitable to pursue would be whether anyone has tried to speak Hungarian or correspond with him in Hungarian. The real Eli must know Hungarian, if only as a second language.


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