a college student's request for help

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collegekid
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a college student's request for help

Postby collegekid » 9 years 4 months ago (Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:15 pm)

Hi! I am a college student currently researching revisionism (particularly the growth of revisionism and how it has changed in the age of the internet), and I was wondering if the revisionists in this forum would help me by answering some questions.

What brought you to revisionism? Was there one specific book or article, or was it a longer process?

Also, how, in your opinion, has the internet aided the revisionist cause? Have you found articles and discussions online to be a better source of information than previously published books? Would you direct a someone new to revisionism or someone who is on the fence to the internet if they want revisionist information or would you steer them toward a particular book instead?

Any an all help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby SevenUp » 9 years 3 months ago (Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:04 pm)

collegekid wrote:Hi! I am a college student currently researching revisionism (particularly the growth of revisionism and how it has changed in the age of the internet), and I was wondering if the revisionists in this forum would help me by answering some questions.


What college? Are you taking a class?

collegekid wrote:What brought you to revisionism? Was there one specific book or article, or was it a longer process?

Also, how, in your opinion, has the internet aided the revisionist cause? Have you found articles and discussions online to be a better source of information than previously published books? Would you direct a someone new to revisionism or someone who is on the fence to the internet if they want revisionist information or would you steer them toward a particular book instead?

Any an all help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!


I saw an internet discussion, someone had posted that the sign at Auschwitz was changed from saying the four million were killed to saying that one and a half million were killed. This was followed by a post calling the OP an anti-semite and a liar. This piqued my interest.

From that beginning it took me a few months of internet research to make up my mind. The internet is an invaluable tool as it makes all sort of info available. Butz's book 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century' also played a key role.

I think that years of conditioning have made most people, I include my prior self here, impervious to fact and reason about the holohoax. As long as a person does not take an ACTIVE INTEREST in the subject, they will not change their mind. You will not change their mind. The info is now available, on the internet and in Butz's book (it is unique and essential in that it dissects the creation of the hoax, naming names, etc., as well as what did/didn't happen during WW II), so that anyone who actively studies the subject with an open mind will discover the truth.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby HaaDeeCee » 9 years 3 months ago (Tue Mar 16, 2010 9:13 pm)

In 1990 or 1991 my son, a high school student then, brought home a copy of the transcripts of the Zuendel trials which had been held in Toronto during the mid and late 1980's. ( a shortened version probably, now also available on-line)

I was absolutely shocked as to what eye witnesses had testified to. These two items in particular stuck in my mind:

1) Witness after witness testified that the bodies' appearance, immediately after having been gassed, all appeared of a bluish-greenish colour.

2) Witnesses testified that they were forced by the Nazis to remove the gassed bodies from the gas chambers with their bare hands.

The foregoing are impossibilities which whetted my appetite for further reading. I found that witnesses claimed to have seen what are clearly scientific impossibilities.

Read my essay in the thread "how many Jews were gassed", where I showed that, using publicly available information, no one was gassed or otherwise mass murdered.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby Mojo » 9 years 3 months ago (Wed Mar 17, 2010 8:29 am)

Learning it was against the law in several countries and that you could be jailed for simply questioning the official version is what got me started. Learning Zundel was in jail for publishing a 28 page booklet that he didn't write, and that had no anti or hate language in it.

Denierbud's documentary One Third of The Holocaust & David Cole's Auschwitz sealed it up for me. The rest is just trying to learn as much as I can about the massive fraud.

The videos at http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com are well worth watching.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 3 months ago (Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:15 pm)

I have always been sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, but took the holocaust for granted. It was a totally separate issue in my mind.
In Jerusalem in the late eighties I recall talking to the Palestinian manager of my hotel. He knew I was sympathetic to Palestine so I felt able to comment "They went through hell in the war, though." He replied "If it happened." My reply was automatic: "It happened."

Then over time I began to get the feeling that Israel was exploiting the holocaust. The real eye-opener was Norman Finkelstein's "The Holocaust Industry". Like Finkelstein I still didn't question what happened though. A circular logic said that it wasn't possible for something so massive to have happened without masses of evidence. So, since everyone believed it, the evidence must be there. And of course you are constantly hearing it is one of the best documented events in history, which I now realize is the complete reverse of the truth. But I was horrified that countries were making questioning it illegal.

I downloaded "Did six million really die?" and thought he made an interesting case but was put off by the fact Verrall was a National Front racist (I'm a left-leaning liberal) and that a number of errors and flaws had been identified in his book.

I began to read Irving's "Nuremberg: the last battle". Though I didn't finish it, I read enough to confirm that it was victor's justice. I developed a respect for Irving, so that when he said that there had been gas chambers and many killed in the Reinhardt camps, I believed him. I read Butz and was impressed but still unsure. I didn't like the "hoax" concept. I still don't, and I think using the word is a public-relations disaster.

Then just a few months ago I watched the whole of Denierbud's movies and realized that whatever happened at Treblinka etc. it could not have been the hundreds of thousands killed that were alleged. I went on to read Mattogno, Graf and Rudolf. I was impressed that it is the "deniers" who write quietly and factually with references to their sources and the other side who play on emotion, and who simply recount dubious eye-witness testimony as fact.

I'm a moderate revisionist. I'm bothered by the anti-Jewish attitudes of many revisionists. I don't accept the hoax thesis. I think it was propaganda that appeared to be confirmed by the awful scenes at Belsen, and which developed its own momentum. I think those who promoted it, for the most part, believed it. "The gas chamber of Sherlock Holmes" is an excellent expose of how people came to believe it.

It is extraordinary how otherwise sensible people become ranting bigots if you suggest even just that there might be reasonable grounds to doubt some aspects of the conventional version. I have tried to bring a measure of balance to some of the nonsense on Wikipedia, but I've given up. It's a waste of time. You simply are subjected to abuse and are told it happened the way it did and that's it.

As for the Internet, I would never have read all the stuff I have if it had not been available there. But you see most people won't go near it, because these are "hate sites"! And there's masses of good stuff on youtube. Try the TV show where Bradley and David Cole confronted Michael Shermer and some "survivors".
Last edited by Kingfisher on Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby Pappy Yokum » 9 years 3 months ago (Thu Mar 18, 2010 7:44 pm)

collegekid wrote:What brought you to revisionism?


My introduction to Holocaust Revisionism was Dr. Butz's THE HOAX OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY. I didn't know enough about the topic to know if the book was an accurate portrayal of the Holocaust story or not. So, I started reading works by Martin Gilbert and others including memoirs of former concentration camp prisoners, and books like KOMMANDANT AT AUSCHWITZ allegedly by Rudolf Hoess. This I balanced with articles by Dr. Faurisson and Ditlieb Felderer and Udo Walendy.

I once asked Dr. Butz how he came to his conclusion about "The Hoax." He told me he simply read the standard history. Though I had the advantage of revisionist material available to me, it really was the standard Holocaust material - like THE DIARY OF ANNE FRANK, and NIGHT, and TWENTY MONTHS AT AUSCHWITZ, and 'THE GOOD OLD DAYS', along with the anti-revisionists writings of Lipstadt and Shermer that convinces me who is telling the truth and who is not.

collegekid wrote:Was there one specific book or article, or was it a longer process?


It took years of reading before I was satisfied I had a representative sample of both sides of the argument. I think when I read Pressac's book balanced with Mattogno's articles I had enough information to know, rather than lean toward, Holocaust Revisionism. There is a strong emotional tie to authority. People tend to take those in authority at their word. That is a mistake. People in authority tend to hold their position because of one lie or another. Authority, particularly government, lies a lot. Coming to understand the Holocaust as presented by TV and government - including trusted school teachers - being a lie is an emotional process as well as an educational one.

collegekid wrote:Also, how, in your opinion, has the internet aided the revisionist cause?

The Internet has been a tremendous ally. Before the Internet, Revisionists printed and mailed newsletters to an aging and disappearing group of people who were old enough to remember World War II. In addition to newsletters, books were sent mail order. People who bought the books generally didn't discuss the topic because of the emotional reaction they received. Because the mainstream media tended to only rarely mention revisionism and then exclusively for the purpose of disparaging it, Revisionists were early users of the Internet, posting articles on Usenet areas like alt.revisionism. Then Revisionist websites followed. The cost of distributing information dropped. The ability to gain access to revisionist arguments became nearly universal. The mainstream media, and the college media are generally closed to Holocaust skeptics. They still are. I am happy to see the dead tree media becoming as dead as the trees they print on. Revisionism has been on the Web for about twenty years now. The Internet has been the difference between life and death for Holocaust Revisionism.

collegekid wrote:Have you found articles and discussions online to be a better source of information than previously published books?

Most of the information online is from previously published print media. In addition to making the information freely available, the Internet allows me to answer questions from people looking for direction. People can find guidance on line for their personal research. They can make the journey much more quickly than someone looking into the topic a generation ago.

collegekid wrote:Would you direct a someone new to revisionism or someone who is on the fence to the internet if they want revisionist information or would you steer them toward a particular book instead?

Any an all help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!


That greatly depends on the question asked. If a man wants to eat Italian food, I will point him toward Italy. Certainly, if the information is available free on the web, that is where I would direct him. If not, but I know what book has the information, I would direct him to a book. The problem is when a Revisionist book does get put into a library, it is usually stolen/lost. When the information is not on line it will have to be purchased unless we are talking face to face and can loan him something from my collection.

I hope that helps. Good luck

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 3 months ago (Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:49 am)

collegekid wrote: Would you direct a someone new to revisionism or someone who is on the fence to the internet if they want revisionist information or would you steer them toward a particular book instead?

Any an all help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!

If I could come back very briefly, to watch all the the videos below takes several hours. I suggest starting with the one on Buchenwald and Psychological warfare. It's an eye-opener.
http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby chammer » 9 years 3 months ago (Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:26 pm)

I got in touch with revisionism first in 1991 or something. I used to read some foreign newspapers, a French newspaper that I bought referred to the adoption of a new law that would ban revisionism. Before it happened, I took some steps to get the address of a publishing edition overthere and ordered two books, one from Rassinier (demographic aspects) and Staeglich. It took a while to receive them from oversea. Staeglich didn't impress me, Rassinier somewhat, but I thought after that it was interesting to know that the number of Jews who were exterminated was well under 6 millions.
Perhaps 2 or 3 year's later I found in a library a few other books (they were removed some months after), one from Faurisson, the Leuchter report and the English version of Butz book. Faurisson was articulated, interesting, but I had still a feeling a repulsion because even if I noticed some good arguments, he showed such a certanty that it shocked me. For me it was indecent to claim the absence of gas chambers as a 'fact' rather than an 'hypothesis', I was just telling myself, 'do you realize how horrible could be your statements if you were wrong? those people MAY have been gassed, may be not but may be yes...' And then I started to read Butz. I was reading quite slowly in English at that time, but anyway he knocked me down my chair.

[Also, how, in your opinion, has the internet aided the revisionist cause? ]

To some extend it has help, but very few people are curious; most people are conformists. It certanly helps but my guess is that revisionism will never be accepted widely without a major economic crisis or something similar. People who get fed up of their leaders get rid of them, some opportunist takes the power, but not because of revisionism. Then, once in power, he sees a wonderfull opportunity to put extra nails on the coffin and unleash dirty stuff that can discredit his opponents for centuries, the politicians are so corrupted that something like this will happen sooner or later.

[Have you found articles and discussions online to be a better source of information than previously published books?]

Of course, but it doesn't play any role regarding the number of revisionists. There a plenty of revisionists in the Arab world and I'm almost sure that most of them heard vaguely about some arguments only. If your friends are some kinds of intellectuals there is not doubt that online material is superior; it's often free and most valuable books are also online. But one thing would certanly help, if revisionists win 2 or 3 billion $ at the lottery and make a few movies where a super-hero, revisionist-man, he save the world with his super powers, some nice manhunts with lots of cars that explode, some nice chicks, Schwarzenegger in the role of the vilain, THAT will make revisionism 'IN'.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby chammer » 9 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:11 am)

Kingfisher wrote:I'm a moderate revisionist. I'm bothered by the anti-Jewish attitudes of many revisionists. I don't accept the hoax thesis. I think it was propaganda that appeared to be confirmed by the awful scenes at Belsen, and which developed its own momentum. I think those who promoted it, for the most part, believed it. "The gas chamber of Sherlock Holmes" is an excellent expose of how people came to believe it.


I had about the same opinion 15 year's ago but I gradually realised that it's a hoax and a deliberate lie; not in a pyramidal way in general, but the in an horizontal way. Those who make a benefit from this history (political, cultual, financial or whatever) are not interested to change their position; the most honest of them will keep silence, a large fraction will ask for laws in order to silent their opponents. Filip Mueller didn't have access to good material when he wrote his novel, he had to rely on a secondary source (Nizkly) which was itself a novel. So he did it on his own. But even there you'll have many Jewish 'scholoars' and movie makers who will defend his version in 20 year's because the sole testimonies that can be rejected to show some 'impartiality' are the two false witness (Wilkomirski, Misha Defonesca) who claim that they were Jews while they were not.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby SevenUp » 9 years 3 months ago (Mon Apr 05, 2010 11:41 am)

Kingfisher wrote:I'm a moderate revisionist. I'm bothered by the anti-Jewish attitudes of many revisionists. I don't accept the hoax thesis.


The holocaust is a complete 100% hoax, and it's crude and obvious. Let's demonstrate .... there are two hoax gas chambers in existence, one at Auschwitz and one at Majdanek. How do we know they are hoaxes? Because they have plate glass windows. Really easy. You don't have to study your cyanide chemistry, or the historical record, these hoaxes are completely obvious. And yet they are foisted off on the world by the Zionists. That is a deliberate hoax. Not a mistake, an oversight, or a misunderstanding.

Or, look at the testimony. Wiesel writes "Babies were thrown into the air and the machine gunners used them as targets." That is not an 'exaggeration' or a mistake, it's a hoax. Does Wiesel's lie implicate only him? He was the first head of the USHMM. He received a Nobel prize. He has an 'ethics competition' he holds every year. Like the fake gas chambers, Wiesel's lies implicate every Jew, especially the active holocaust promoters.

But, ultimately you need to study the real history of the hoax, that is, why we believe the holocaust lies. It is not an accident, it was all planned and carried out by Zionists. Nuremberg is the lynch pin, and you can read a short article by Weber here ....

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v12/v12p167_Webera.html

and, read Butz again, this time paying attention. He did not call it a hoax by chance, he demonstrated the hoax and identified the major players.

For a short intro, and many of the highlights ... see http://www.holohoax101.com ,and also the follow on pages 102, 103, and 201.

Finally, when you understand what a grotesque and degenerate hoax the holocaust is, and when you realize that it depends on the continuing support of the Jews, I think you'll understand why many revisionists have anti-Jewish attitudes.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby chammer » 9 years 3 months ago (Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:37 am)

I'm not sure if he needs your short intro; he says that he gave up about balancing the material referring to revisionism on wikipedia and I know this is correct; someone used to try this, which greatly pleased me one or two year's ago, I didn't know whom it was but that was a good surprise. Now it's over. I'm not sure if we should start a new thread with this topic (how much do they lie conscientiously ) is is simply a matter on how much you believe that Jews can show cohesion and how much really believe their claims because they feel it as a religion. Some people have a superb capacity to put they real belief (faith) in line with what can be convenient. Lots of people by the way. Some if one is claiming that thousands of Jews, organized in a pyramidal way, are meeting each other regularly to distribute the tasks in order to improve the lie I don't think so. I'm saying that when it's a convenient story lots of people (non Jewish center-leftists as well) will delibaratelly lie on ONE or a few aspects and consider that this is OK because it can have a 'pedagogic' effect. But there is a pyramidal part in this too, not as much enormous thought; the guys who beat Hoss may have thought that he gassed Jews and tried to get a confession 'in good faith' (well, hard to believe but possible), the Nuremberg judges could have been convinced of the culpability of most of the nazi leaders, but here's come the problem: The documents dealing with the resettlement policy in the East, the daily administration of those ghettos in the East, it wasn't there at Nuremberg. They ceased the other documentation, but that one, no. Since Mattogno/Graf and the others show with strong indirect evidence that such ghettos DID exist it means that those document were destroyed by the prosecution. So there was at least a pyramidal lie at that stage.
The driving force behind the hoax, the fact that the medias are enormously distorted, is tribalism first. A newspaper director doesn't need to receive an order from a remote 'boss' to censor people that he doesn`t like.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby proxyserver » 9 years 3 months ago (Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:18 pm)

collegekid wrote:Hi! I am a college student currently researching revisionism (particularly the growth of revisionism and how it has changed in the age of the internet), and I was wondering if the revisionists in this forum would help me by answering some questions.

What brought you to revisionism? Was there one specific book or article, or was it a longer process?

Also, how, in your opinion, has the internet aided the revisionist cause? Have you found articles and discussions online to be a better source of information than previously published books? Would you direct a someone new to revisionism or someone who is on the fence to the internet if they want revisionist information or would you steer them toward a particular book instead?

Any an all help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time!


I have always been interested in the "Holocaust" long before the advent of the internet, and the first revisionist book I read was The Hoax of the 20th Century by Arthur Butz, and this was when I regarded it as an evil book, as it seemed incredible that anyone would question the fact of the alleged Jewish genocide. However, over the years I have gradually learnt to be agnostic about the "Holocaust" as a result of reading, and I would say that internet revisionism is certainly significant as it has brought it within the scope of many people who would otherwise be indifferent to the subject. One disadvantage of the internet is that those who have a vested interest in propagating the "Holocaust" narrative have seen fit in many countries to have revisionists prosecuted usually on the grounds of Jewish racial defamation, as they are very anxious about the effect of such mass propagation of revisionism; but I suppose that a worthwhile cause will aways need martyrs. Certainly it is the case that anyone who has a serious interest in Middle Eastern politics should be knowledgeable about the Holocaust, since as this link shows ( http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1162668.html ) Israel was established on the basis of the "Holocaust", and there is also the question of Iranian "Holocaust denial", which could possibly lead to a new military invasion by the Americans, as well as the possibility of nuclear conflict ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8264111.stm ), all of which fuels my interest in the subject.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby holographic » 8 years 7 months ago (Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:33 pm)

and the most loveable aspect of the college kids paper? She cites "pooshoodog" from Rodoh as a denier. These children of the web are priceless. She cites a vitriolic and idiotic pooshoodog as an example of foul-mouthed "denier" mentality despite being able to research all his posts. I love it!
Fecalalia is the new glossolia! :)

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby vincentferrer » 8 years 7 months ago (Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:02 am)

A Catholic priest friend of mine, Ph.D educated, and in charge of a large teaching program that trains future Catholic priests, told me in 2001 that the Holocaust was a Hoax. He called it a Jewish fraud. ( I think he is also telling his students the same thing!)

I was stunned.

In 2003 a second Catholic priest, the pastor of a very large church, told me the same thing. Holocaust is a big Jewish hoax.
I set off to prove to priest #2 he was wrong. But in a few weeks discovered he was right.

He later had bible study classes and each qtr, he spent an entire evening discussing the Holohoax fraud. He converted most of the class. I was the one who supplied free books ( Lectures on the Holocaust, etc ) to any who were interested.

There is quite a bit to read and learn in order to grasp the story of this hoax, so I began reading and calling different experts. The promoters try to confuse you with phony facts and the only way to prove them liars, is to know the details of the camps and timelines.

I am most proud to say I have spent 7 yrs helping others to convert to the truth that the holocaust is a hoax. Friends of mine in teaching, law, and clergy are all
becoming educated. I even converted a sitting Judge in America.

I am also proud of the fact I am able to support the efforts of those who are bringing this issue to light.
The very word holocaust is a pejorative to every German citizen. There was no holocaust,
just lies from the abandoned race.

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Re: a college student's request for help

Postby gbrecht » 8 years 7 months ago (Wed Nov 17, 2010 1:50 am)

Kingfisher, you really, really need to get Jewish history books, from actual Jewish historians, and then rethink your position. Research the talmud, along with Jewish history, if you don't realize the Jews aren't some average people who don't deserve any negative criticism then all I would reply is look harder.


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