Helpful Hints on how to 'Deny' the Holocaust

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astro3
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Helpful Hints on how to 'Deny' the Holocaust

Postby astro3 » 9 years 6 months ago (Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:18 am)

The Primary Affirmation
In my experience, one only gets the opportunity for a very short soundbite. ‘The H’ is a mind-trap, a steel trap that closes and terminates discussion. The ‘wicked Nazis’ and the ‘poor jews’ – we move away from that discourse, to where cyanide chemistry is central. Rational, scientific debate is possible because two chemical investigations agree with each other: Leuchter and Rudolf.

I suggest a PRIMARY AFFIRMATION. ‘Mass human cyanide gas chambers have never existed in human history.’ Further, WE AFFIRM that normal hygiene technology functioned in an ordinary, normal manner in those German labour camps: that’s where the Zyklon went. That’s how it was used.

I’m used to expressing offbeat views on various issues, But with my Revisionist essays it was so different: media and blogosphere vilification and SILENCE from nearly everyone. My college (UCL) threw me out – this advice is based on my experiences. How to open up a tiny crack of debate?

A friend recently was impressed when I told him of the THREE NUMBERS that mattered. Mean cyanide level measured in the delousing chamber walls, 5000 parts per million; mean background level in kitchens, bedrooms etc, 2 ppm. Mean level in alleged human gas chambers 3 ppm: each being means of 10-15 samples (pooling together the two data-sets). http://www.codoh.com/newrevoices/nrnkwalls.html

So there is no significant difference between cyanide in samples taken from the alleged (tourist) gas chambers and the control levels.

In my experience there are two TRAPS TO AVOID when ‘The H’ topic comes up: first, people say to you, that Six Million died, didn’t they? Resist the temptation to comment, reply ‘I don’t know.’ That figure is a or the most holy and sacred icon for our civilisation and once you ‘deny’ it your opportunity for debate is over (in my experience) – you are now the wicked H-D-er and how could you be so callous? Instead, affirm, ‘I don’t know, but they didn’t die from cyanide poisoning.’ Second, do not allow your views to be expressed as ‘no jews were gassed.’ That’s why the word ‘cyanide’ has to be there in the ‘primary affirmation’ above: one-third were (traditionally) gassed by diesel fumes (or whatever). I suggest stay away from that, because there is not a clear, winnable argument as is there for the cyanide.

The big Holohoax textbooks have clearly committed themselves to where the human (cyanide) gas chambers were located. They can’t go back on that. Then wall samples have clearly been taken, and measured: that was the experimentum crucis, its been done. Iron in the walls holds onto the cyanide – that’s why we win the argument.

Power of Heart
A Revisionist needs Power of Heart to withstand the hurled accusations ‘Nazi! Anti-Semite! H-D-er!’ I here recommend some Inner Guidance such as ‘I am here to take away from you your Worst Nightmare’ – because that’s what we as Revisionists are in fact doing. We are here to take away from people their Vision of Ghastly Horror – and they don’t like it at all! If you expect gratitude – forget it! Remember, a Nazi (in modern parlance) is a person who understands the chemical arguments about how the Zyklon was used in WW2.

Or, when so assaulted, quietly affirm: I am a philosopher, who is interested in the difference between what does and does not exist. I quite enjoy contemplating how the actual gas chambers of WW2 (hygienic, killing bugs not Jews) were made to metamorphose at Nuremberg into the delirium-horror image of human gas chambers. As a philosopher, I am interested in why my fellow-human beings need nightmare-horror images to guide their lives. Thus, you are a Teacher of Enlightenment in here promoting the truth.

‘The H’ is a creation that goes off in various different directions at once, all of horror and grief. That’s why it’s a mind-trap, made to terminate discussion. I therefore advise a focussed affirmation on the historical non-existence of mass human cyanide gas chambers – all three adjectives are required! You know that you can win any argument which results from making that affirmation.

You might find it useful to allude to the ‘Holocaust exhibition’ in the London War Museum. It’s a huge exhibition on two floors – but nowhere does it say or imply that cyanide gas chambers ever had people in them! As museum curators I guess they realised, they just could not say that… A can of the Zyklon insecticide is on display – and visitors are informed it was used in the delousing chamber (the only mention of the delousing chambers). They do have testimony however about diesel-carbon monoxide gassing.

The philosopher contemplates the five levels of nonexistence of the AHCGCs ‘alleged human cyanide gas chambers’: 1. No trace of any documentary evidence in 3rd Reich literature; 2. No trace of any cyanide gassed bodies ever found; 3. Not one record of death by cyanide poisoning ever recorded in WW2 labour-camps; 4. No photos of this alleged extermination-process; 5. WW2 German labour camp remains have no trace of anything credibly resembling an AHCGC.

Maybe this whole topic is more about enchantment than it is about science. Beside the swimming-pool at Auschwitz is a notice in Hebrew ‘this is not a swimming-pool.’ That says it all. People have really believed the notice in Hebrew. We are here to break the enchantment. ‘people it does not exist! It never happened!’ We violate that which is sacred, yes. But I’m saying, or I think I am, we break that spell using chemical and rational logic. Where did the spell come from? We live in a warmaker civilisation, where the Primary Myths are the war-ratifying illusions. Deep passions are locked into them and that’s why you get vilified by denying them.

A Revisionist seeks a more fair and balanced account of (primarily) WW2, and Revisionism is inspired by the words of Jesus Christ concerning the Beam and the Mote.

I hope these comments are helpful.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 6 months ago (Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:22 am)

It could be that the most popular future holocaust denial reasons aren't even going to be the good ones. Like Bishop Williamson. What he told an interviewer was hardly the best example of Auschwitz gas chamber denial, yet it's the most popular.

Interesting, but what do you mean "beam and mote." Remove the beam out of ones own eye? But how does that relate to revisionism?

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Bradley » 9 years 6 months ago (Sat Mar 27, 2010 6:50 pm)

I believe he is saying that those who slander revisionists should clean up their own act first.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby vincentferrer » 9 years 6 months ago (Sun Mar 28, 2010 2:36 am)

Seven years of study into the field of revisionism has taught me a few things. What I have found to be most effective in helping others
discover the truth is make it very very simple. I follow the path of least resistance.

99.9% of americans have no clue about ANY details of the holocaust. Promoters are always vague on the details. Gee I wonder why!

One idea I have used with success is make the innocent believers, come up with the answers to absurd problems of the hoax. For example. Ask how they would go about burying 1,400,000 bodies on 10 acres of swampy land. If they can fog a mirror they should be able to figure out you would need about 200 acres and
bodies cant be buried in a swamp.

Kindly tell them they are guilty of holocaust denial. They are absolutely dumbfounded. They were about to call you a HD'er, but you turned the tables and are making them out to be a HD'er.

I remind them even though it makes no sense, (and of course the Auschwitz numbers are now just 1,500,000 down from 4,000,000 a few yrs ago and Majdanek has dropped it's numbers from 2,000,000 to 58,000 or so,)you still HAVE to believe 6,000,000 Jews died or YOU are a denier.

What this does is show these people how easy it is for anyone to place that tag on them.

It is walking someone into a trap, but that is exactly the game the real promoters play by forcing all global citizens to buy their poison or they are anti Semites.

What I have found is these people do not like the idea they are even remotely in the HD'er camp, so I let them see how absurd it is for objective revisionists
to be called deniers inthe first place.

My tactics open the door for a calm, rational, fact filled discussion on reasons,that prove this is one big hoax.

Again, there are many ways one can approach this topic to show others the truth, but the best way is to become educated yourself and read.
The very word holocaust is a pejorative to every German citizen. There was no holocaust,
just lies from the abandoned race.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby ps » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Mar 29, 2010 11:40 am)

We must not deny the Holocaust but we have to prove how he was possible! The need to deny we leave others! For those who understand German:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5996

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Barrington James » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Mar 29, 2010 5:25 pm)

Hi , good ideas....This is taken from a earlier post of mine...

Debating or discussing the holocaust can be a very frustrating experience. Most of have seen David Duke, David Irving, Ernst Zundel ,Ahmadinejad and others on Youtube try to discuss the holocaust with varying degrees of success, and I have spend many hours myself in arguments, even in a friendly setting, that have left me very frustrated and unable to keep the debate cool, calm and collected.

Consequently it is often extremely difficult to make a single point in the debate because one side or the other, usually both, will does not listen to the other. Instead the debate becomes one of a series of accusations and irrelevant questions.

Watch Zundel, for example, on the youtube CCN #1 . The two hosts of the show are so wound up, so shocked, and so excited that Ernst can't get out more than a few words before they accuse him of being anti-semitic
( of course), a lover of Hitler, a fool, a psycho, and on and on. This is typical and it does not help anyone to learn.

I believe the answer to this problem is to take control of the agenda and the process before the debate begins. The following rules may help may help.

(1) If you are being interviewed or in a debate, make it clear from the very beginning exactly what you believe about the holocaust and what you do not believe about it.
(2) Do not let the “host” label you a “denier” or a “believer” and let it go at that. Explain, in your opinion, what a denier is and what a denier is not and what a believer is or is not.
(3) Make it very clear from the start that the debate will be about some very specific points in a specific sequence. Debate the holocaust point by point. Don't let the debate be sabotaged.
(4) Ask the “believer” or “denier” to list the two or three reasons why he believes what he does about the holocaust. You might ask him to make a list. You should do the same. Then one by one you should discuss these reasons as in (4) below. You can always make a new list after the old one is exhausted.
(5)Before moving the debate from one point to the next one, get an agreement on the first point that you have just discussed or, if that is impossible, at least get an agreed upon a cease fire on the first point. Sometimes neither side will have the answer to a specific point and more research must be done. Nobody has all the answers.
(6)No interruptions. Listen to what the other side is saying about the particular point being discussed and direct all you questions back to him on what he has just said.
(7)Before asking a question or making a point, one should be obliged to sum up what the person has just said.
(8)Keep you cool and sense of humor.
(9)Remember that most of the people on both sides of the debate are sincere, honest people.
(10)Do not expect to immediately convince your opponent with facts, logic or reason of any kind. All you can do is to present your case, make a few points and move on.

In summary, give structure and rules to your debate and stick to it. Finally, you might ask your opponent if he has read any books, on the topic, pro or con, and suggest some to him that he might find informative. You might ask him to go to this this site or youtube ( The David Cole/Zundel, Faurisson, Irving sites on youtube are great.) and discuss the points on those sites.

I think you will enjoy discussing and debating the holocaust if you follow these simple rules and both you and your “opponent” may learn something.You can fool too many of the people most of the time.
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Cloud » 9 years 6 months ago (Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:32 am)

Denying the Holocaust is easy. Just say it didn't happen. However, it makes people angry for some reason...

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Barrington James » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:41 am)

I still think you have to specify what you mean by the 'holocaust"before you begin to debate it. To deny that “it didn't happen", as you suggested, might give some people the impression that you are implying that the Jews of Europe were not put in camps by the millions, did not have their lives ruined and that hundreds of thousands of them did not die of starvation and disease, or that an untold number of them were not killed as partisans, for reprisals, acts of revenge, as soldiers of the Soviets or for any number of other reasons, which of course did also happen. Few would deny that.

However what some people are denying that six million Jews were gassed as part of a mass extermination plan by the Nazis who thought the Jews were either all communists and were trying to take over the world and that the Jews had already killed tens of millions of people in trying to do so, or that they were inferior humans (although they had in fact taken over much of the world of business, finance, entertainment, politics, science, literature...nice job for inferior people.)

I am suggesting that before debating this explosive topic that you define your terms so that you will either not look like a fool or get lost in the debate for one reason or another. I am also suggesting that you limit your debate point by point. For example are you going to debate six million? Gassing? Or an extermination plan? You can’t debate all three at the same time with any hope of success.

I was also trying to warn you that you might get a very explosive reaction from some people regardless of your facts, your sincerity or tact or sensitivity of the entire situation. There is and always will be a great deal of pain associated with this history. You might be better off to question or debate the motives of those who use war to solve problems, who destroyed much of Europe and Japan and then continued to destroy places and countries such as Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Palestine, Laos, Cambodia, much of Africa, Central and South America, Lebanon, Yugoslavia, and Afghanistan, and are planning on destroying Iran in the very near future.

I used to think that we could stop the war in Iraq, the coming war in Iran by learning the truth about WW1, WW2 and all the other wars , and find peace in the Middle east, but it now appears to me that there is so much propaganda and emotion with these “good” wars, Israel and the holocaust that I’d be better off just putting my efforts into stopping the coming war in Iran and let the historians 500 years from now teach us the truth about wars and the world.

Good luck in your debates.

BJ
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 6:11 am)


I used to think that we could stop the war in Iraq, the coming war in Iran by learning the truth about WW1, WW2 and all the other wars , and find peace in the Middle east, but it now appears to me that there is so much propaganda and emotion with these “good” wars, Israel and the holocaust that I’d be better off just putting my efforts into stopping the coming war in Iran


Excellent idea, Mr James. I think they will be sleeping a lot more soundly in their beds in Tehran tonight, knowing they have Barrington James boxing in their corner!

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby ginger » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:18 am)

I saw the video of 1995 Donohue show with Bradley Smith and David Cole defending their views on the Holocaust and challenging the world to present any direct evidence of Nazi genocide of the Jews using gas chambers. They had courage to present their views to the general American TV viewing public and to hold their ground while a distraught Auschwitz survivor detailed the trauma of being separated from her family.

Bradley Smith presented his case very well. David Cole was easily riled and left in the middle of the interview. He was unfairly 'trashed' after he left. I agreed with him and appreciate what he had to go through to present his views. Donohue sided with the audience but ultimately opined that the questions raised about the gas chambers should be openly debated.

I offered my opinion in a college class years ago that the Jews were not exterminated in gas chambers during World War II. The instructor was shocked that I had made such a statement. I told him "People don't do things like that" and he softened his attitude a bit. But I doubt that I changed his mind.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:54 am)

One simple, effective point against the hoax is that there are no autopsy reports to show that even one corpse of the tens of thousands found at the end of the war was of a person killed with poison gas or poison anywhere in German-occupied Europe.

This was in spite of the fact that the Allies assigned pathologists to find precisely this kind of info for the intended war crimes trials. No where in all of the mountains of "evidence" is there even one such report, anywhere.

Image

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Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Cloud » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:27 pm)

Friedrich Paul Berg wrote:One simple, effective point against the hoax is that there are no autopsy reports to show that even one corpse of the tens of thousands found at the end of the war was of a person killed with poison gas or poison anywhere in German-occupied Europe.

This was in spite of the fact that the Allies assigned pathologists to find precisely this kind of info for the intended war crimes trials. No where in all of the mountains of "evidence" is there even one such report, anywhere.

Image


But the retort you often get is "they couldn't be autopsied because they were cremated."

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Wounded Knee » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:18 am)

Here is a few thing you should ask

1.Where are the burning pit’s. At Auschwitz ? To my know age they have never been pointed out or Investigated

2. Where were the remains dumped ? You have the remains of exactly 6,000,000 corpus out there. And why haven’t someone try to find the remains to bury them in consecrated ground ?

3. Where did they store the fuel for the crematoriums And how did they move the fuel from point A to point B ?

4. What ever happen to the engineers that ran the crematorium and the sanitations equipment at Auschwitz ?

As a sidebar what I would like to see done is to mark out with orange barrier that you can get at a large change hardware store, the size and shape of the undressing room and the so-called gas chamber and see if you can get 2000 persons in there. First into the dressing room and then into the so called gas chamber, just to see if it can be done. (offer them a nice bag lunch) :idea:

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby Friedrich Paul Berg » 9 years 6 months ago (Thu Apr 01, 2010 11:22 am)

The absence of an autopsy report does not "prove" a crime did NOT happen. But it is a serious deficiency in a murder accusation--especially, if there was more than enough opportunity to make detailed forensic examinations and autopsies. According to Larson, he made more than a thousands autopsies--but, by his own admission in the book he co-authored, and even though he believed there were gassings at Dachau--he could NOT find any forensic proof of such gassings.

Friedrich Paul Berg
Learn everything at http://www.nazigassings.com
Nazi Gassings Never Happened! Niemand wurde vergast!
The Holocaust story is a hoax because 1) no one was killed by the Nazis in gas chambers, 2) the total number of Jews who died in Nazi captivity is miniscule compared to what is alleged.

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Re: Helpful Hints on how to Deny the Holocaust

Postby astro3 » 9 years 5 months ago (Fri May 07, 2010 6:28 am)

That's quite a powerful and courageous generalisation by Mr Berg, above:
One simple, effective point against the hoax is that there are no autopsy reports to show that even one corpse of the tens of thousands found at the end of the war was of a person killed with poison gas or poison anywhere in German-occupied Europe.
If rational debate were feasible on this topic, one would like to see that defended in some university debate!

Notice that this is a wholly verifiable or testable statement - whereas no sentence containing the H-word can ever be verifiable. "The H'' is a concept that goes off in various diffierent directions at once, all filled with rage and despair, that's why it is such a trap. Its better to make a clearly affirmative statement, if you can, not using that word.

I personally favour a more limited statement than Mr Berg is making, so that one can have a more focussed debate, something like
... there are no autopsy reports to show that even one corpse of the tens of thousands found at the end of the war was of a person killed with cyanide gas anywhere in German-occupied Europe.
- if I may slightly modify his. That is because clear and conclusive arguments exist concerning how and where the Zyklon was used - to kill bugs not Jews, and save lives not take them. An argument on this matter is winnable. Whether anyone in the UK wants to listen to such arguments, is another matter!

To remind: we are dealing with very high-level mind-control here.

I'm suggesting not getting into arguments about carbon monoxide or diesel exhaust gassing (Mr Berg is quite good on this topic) - traditionally 'one-third of the H.' At the 'Holocaust Exhibition' in London's Imperial War Museum, they have seven quotes from people apparently witnessing the gassing or making it happen - mainly alluding to diesel, machinery etc, but none allude to cyanide. I gather that these quotes are mainly fabricated by the US/UK at Nuremberg - but, I'd rather keep clear of this in a brief discussion of the topic.

Charles Larsen - a very quotable US expert - did not say he had found no deaths by gassing, he said (as quoted in the book about him) no systematic, mass cyanide gassing. Now that is a very wise position. He conjectured that a few mentally ill people had been gassed using Zyklon - but I guess he did that just to avoid having the 'no Jews were gassed' 'denier' label hanging around his neck for the rest of his life.


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