When is Zyklon B lethal?

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Avaloki
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When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Avaloki » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 02, 2003 12:52 pm)

Hej

At the site Nizkor.org, they say that it is not strange that no traces of zyclon B have been found in the alleged death gas chambers.

A lethal concentration of 300 ppm is stated as being enough to kill a human in a short time, while 16.000 ppm over a longer period of time is necesarry to delouse in the fumigation chambers. Therefore no traces are to be found of these low doses.

Any comments?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:08 pm)

This completely ignores the numbers of Jews allegedly gassed at one time in a large underground space and the alleged time lengths, which are said to have been mere minutes....all of which would have required massive amounts of Zyklon-B and necessitated vast amounts of cyanide residue, but not the case.

There is also a deceptive standard of measurement being used, not unusual for the so called "holocaust" Industry. I have listed some urls for info. and outlined some points, parts A. & B. ...read on.

A. quick points:

from Germar Rudolf, master chemist:
"the minimum amount of Zyklon B to be introduced in these rooms would have been in the order of magnitude of ten times the amount normally used for delousing procedures"


- This false argument, "it takes more cyanide to kill insects than it does humans, hence low HCN residue in the alleged gas chambers" is refuted by Germar Rudolf here:

Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Birkenau
By Germar Rudolf
https://codoh.com/library/document/925/?lang=en

also see full Rudolf Report here:
http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html

- Rudolf also destroys Robert Jan Van Pelt (fraudulent Auschwitz 'expert') and the false assertions about amounts of HCN found in the laughable, alleged 'gas chambers': http://www.vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

B. The argument is based on a false measurement standard, some points on that:

the false argument from:
http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leu ... aq-04.html
"But - HCN is far more effective on warm-blooded animals (including humans) than on insects, so the period of exposure to HCN is far longer for delousing clothes than that required for homicidal gassings, and a much lower concentration is necessary to kill people instead of insects.
A concentration of up to 16,000 ppm (parts per million) is sometimes used, with exposure times of up to 72 hours, to kill insects, but as little as 300 ppm will cause death in humans within fifteen minutes or so."

false argument exposed:
Two different measurement standards are being used, with the pretense there is only one measurement standard.
The measurement standard used for the HCN killing insects is the measurement for killing every single insect. In other words, if there are a thousand insects on a piece of cloth or room, the measurement is for killing every single one of those thousand insects.

With the measurement for humans, on the other hand, what's used is the measurement that can kill a single human being. This measurement is extremely low, because a small percentage of humans have a very low tolerance. In other words, if there were a thousand people in a room, that concentration could kill one person out of those thousand.

The toxicological literature gives two main threshold values of poisonous substances, from Rudolf:

Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Birkenau
By Germar Rudolf
https://codoh.com/library/document/925/?lang=en
"The lethal dose 100%, LD100, which gives the concentration or quantity of poison required to kill all (100%) individuals of an observed species. This value is used to make sure that all individuals are successfully killed.
The lethal dose 1%, LD1, which gives the concentration or quantity of poison required to kill 1% of all individuals of an observed species. This value is used to mark a threshold beyond which an exposition to that poison is definitively dangerous."


The argument that a higher concentration of cyanide was needed to kill lice than humans is a canard, and now you can see how deceptive their argument is. They use two different measurement standards for humans and lice, but at 1st glance you think they are using the same standard.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Avaloki » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 02, 2003 2:29 pm)

Hej

Yes, if Rudolph is correct, then the 300 ppm is nonsense. Both cannot be correct. What is true i wouldnt know.

I was wondering at the amount of 300 ppm compared to 16.000 for delousing. One might think there could be enough Zyclon B residue in the clothes to kill the one who takes on the clothes afterwards.

I also had the impression that humans were gassed in chambers for delousing? Is that correct? Then the above would be ridiculous.

Any links that specifically adress the issues brought up on nizkor? This is the only site i have found that seems to seriously challenge the revisionist stance.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Nov 02, 2003 3:19 pm)

Avaloki wrote:
I also had the impression that humans were gassed in chambers for delousing? Is that correct?


Not at Auschwitz. On the other hand, some revisionists have toyed with the idea that one or both of the underground morgues in the crematoria, the purported homicidal gas chambers, may have been temporarily used as delousing chambers before the crematoria became operational and at a time when there was a shortage of such facilities within the camp. Such a circumstance would account for the problematic Vergasungskeller reference in this document:

http://www.holocaust-history.org/auschw ... ngskeller/

Any links that specifically adress the issues brought up on nizkor? This is the only site i have found that seems to seriously challenge the revisionist stance.

Avaloki


One should probably mention the Holocaust History Project website, with one proviso. Their claim is "We take an active role in confronting denial."

Confront, to us, means involvement on a face to face level. However, we have recently been advised:

Very few of us at THHP do this sort of thing. While this page

www.holocaust-history.org/team/

lists perhaps a third of THHP's members (though all the founders are on that page), Dr. Richard Green, Ralf Loserth, Jamie McCarthy, Harry Mazal, and John are members who either no longer or never did debate Holocaust deniers as a matter of principle. That's nearly half, and I can assure you that the members whose names do *not* appear on that list are rarely, if ever, seen debating deniers, either online or in person.


So much for open debate on the Holocaust.

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Postby Avaloki » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:47 am)

Thanks for the reply

So, was zyclon B gassing only used for fumigation of clothes and other effects, or was it also used directly on humans? If it was, it would put a perspective on the alleged lethality of zyclon B, and render nizkors arguments as somewhat unreal.

Yes, if the exterminationists will not debate revisionists, then theres not much of a face to face debate indeed. I know how revisionism is treated in mainstream media, and surprised at finding out what is about.

You must be "Mr. B" i guess? I am reading in your book, and must say it is very thought provoking. May i ask you something about it?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 14, 2003 12:52 pm)

Zyklon-B was only used as an insecticide, a delousing agent to prevent typhus. There were facilities at the labor camps for delousing of clothing, personal items, machinery, etc. Entire buildings were also deloused.

There is no alleged 'evidence' of Zyklon-B being used against humans which has not been easily refuted by Revisionist research. It's not even a close call, Revisionists prevail hands down.

2 points of many:

Lack of large amounts of cyanide residue in the alleged 'gas chambers' which would necessarily be present, if the stories were true (there is massive residue in the delousing facilities). In addition, Zyklon-B was a time release product, which presents additional problems for the standard story.

see:
The Rudolf Report - Expert Report on Chemical and Technical Aspects of the ‘Gas Chambers’ of Auschwitz here; free download, or available for purchase:

http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/index.html


- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby slob » 1 year 5 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 1:53 pm)

How true is the highlighted paragraph??
Image

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby borjastick » 1 year 5 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 3:20 pm)

In theory it could be and it could not be because no one was ever gassed after having a shower, or for that matter in any of the claimed shower rooms/gas chambers, so we'll never know. It's all nonsense.
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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Dresden » 1 year 5 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:09 pm)

Death by Hydrogen Cyanide is a result of inhalation, not absorption through the skin.

It's just an attempt to make sense out of nonsense.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Hektor » 1 year 5 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 7:10 pm)

Avaloki wrote:Hej

At the site Nizkor.org, they say that it is not strange that no traces of zyclon B have been found in the alleged death gas chambers.

A lethal concentration of 300 ppm is stated as being enough to kill a human in a short time, while 16.000 ppm over a longer period of time is necesarry to delouse in the fumigation chambers. Therefore no traces are to be found of these low doses.
////i

While it's true that warmblooded mammals are more sensitive to HCN than coldblooded invertebrates for a number of reasons. They're comparing Oranges and Apples:
1) 300 ppm is a safety figure , that's where human life is considered lethally endangered. (That's not from the German instructions manual for Zyklon B executions, which we've never been shown)
2) The 16.000 is a supplier recommendation were he guarantees that all bugs are dead. It's definitely a huge overkill.

For executions of humans, you'd still use an overkill setting. Bear in mind that the supposed gas chambers had dimensions: E.g: Krema II Mortuary I / ‘gas chamber’ WAS 30m x 7m x 2.41 m. That's a little more than 500m3
You'd have to get the required concentration on each cubic meter of those 500m3.
That means you'd have to insert enough Zyklon B to get the concentrations on the required level within due time.
Consider that the release of Cyanide gas takes time and is further inhibited by temperature of the Zyklon B as well as humidity. With 2000 people breathing out in the room you can assume a quick increase in that humidity. With no internal ventilation possible the HCN would only spread slowly.

It seems the proponents of the homicidal gassing narrative haven't thought their story through.

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Rogal Dorn » 1 year 5 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:05 pm)

Some of the links appear dead to me (404), understandably since this is a necro'd 10 year old thread. But I have to ask: Where can I find info that the cited 300 ppm is LD1, and that the 16,000ppm is LD100?

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Moderator » 1 year 5 months ago (Thu Jan 25, 2018 10:52 pm)

Rogal, now try:

Some Technical and Chemical Considerations about the 'Gas Chambers' of Auschwitz and Birkenau
By Germar Rudolf
https://codoh.com/library/document/925/?lang=en

GR may have changed some of the wording a bit.
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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Zulu » 1 year 5 months ago (Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:36 am)

Dresden wrote:Death by Hydrogen Cyanide is a result of inhalation, not absorption through the skin.

It's just an attempt to make sense out of nonsense.

That's not true. HCN Absortion via skin can contribute to systemic poisoning.
The fact that most of "gassing eyewitnesses" never mention the use of gloves or special clothes for handling the corpses of people gassed or to open their mouth in order to extract their golden teeth is another absurdity of massive homicidal gassing tales.
In addition, sweat on the bodies of victims in panic would have absorbed large amounts of HCN (which is very soluble in water) thus making even more dangerous their handling without any protection.
Routes of Exposure
Inhalation

Hydrogen cyanide is readily absorbed from the lungs; symptoms of poisoning begin within seconds to minutes. The odor of hydrogen cyanide is detectable at 2-10 ppm (OSHA PEL = 10 ppm), but does not provide adequate warning of hazardous concentrations. Perception of the odor is a genetic trait (20% to 40% of the general population cannot detect hydrogen cyanide); also, rapid olfactory fatigue can occur. Hydrogen cyanide is lighter than air.

Children exposed to the same levels of hydrogen cyanide as adults may receive larger doses because they have greater lung surface area:body weight ratios and increased minute volumes:weight ratios.

Skin/Eye Contact

Exposure to hydrogen cyanide can cause skin and eye irritation. More importantly, skin or eye absorption is rapid and contributes to systemic poisoning. After skin exposure, onset of symptoms may be immediate or delayed for 30 to 60 minutes. Most cases of toxicity from dermal exposure have been from industrial accidents involving partial immersion in liquid cyanide or cyanide solutions or from contact with molten cyanide salts, resulting in large surface-area burns.


Children are more vulnerable to toxicants absorbed through the skin because of their relatively larger surface area:body weight ratio.
Ingestion

Ingestion of hydrogen cyanide solutions or cyanide salts can be rapidly fatal.

Source: Medical Management Guidelines for Hydrogen Cyanide (HCN)
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MMG/MMG.asp?id=1141&tid=249

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Dresden » 1 year 5 months ago (Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:10 pm)

Zulu said:

"That's not true"

You missed my point, Zulu, only because I worded it in the way I did.
I took it for granted that we're talking about death in the alleged "homicidal gas chambers".

A comfortable shower before "gassing" renders the Hoax preposterous, so they have to spin some yarn about bodies absorbing Hydrogen Cyanide quicker when they are wet; to try to make sense out of nonsense.

"Skin/Eye Contact

Exposure to hydrogen cyanide can cause skin and eye irritation. More importantly, skin or eye absorption is rapid and contributes to systemic poisoning. After skin exposure, onset of symptoms may be immediate or delayed for 30 to 60 minutes. Most cases of toxicity from dermal exposure have been from industrial accidents involving partial immersion in liquid cyanide or cyanide solutions or from contact with molten cyanide salts, resulting in large surface-area burns"



"Exposure to hydrogen cyanide can cause skin and eye irritation"

Not death.

"Most cases of toxicity from dermal exposure have been from industrial accidents involving partial immersion in liquid cyanide....."

Like falling in a vat of liquid cyanide up to your waist ..... "partial immersion".

"..... resulting in large surface-area burns"

Not death.
Maybe, just maybe, they believe what they are telling you about the 'holocaust', but maybe, just maybe, their contempt for your intelligence and your character is beyond anything you could ever have imagined. -- Bradley Smith

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Re: When is Zyklon B lethal?

Postby Elroy » 1 year 5 months ago (Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:46 am)

Zulu wrote:
Dresden wrote:Death by Hydrogen Cyanide is a result of inhalation, not absorption through the skin.

It's just an attempt to make sense out of nonsense.

That's not true. HCN Absortion via skin can contribute to systemic poisoning.
The fact that most of "gassing eyewitnesses" never mention the use of gloves or special clothes for handling the corpses of people gassed or to open their mouth in order to extract their golden teeth is another absurdity of massive homicidal gassing tales.
In addition, sweat on the bodies of victims in panic would have absorbed large amounts of HCN (which is very soluble in water) thus making even more dangerous their handling without any protection.
Routes of Exposure
Inhalation

Hydrogen cyanide is readily absorbed from the lungs; symptoms of poisoning begin within seconds to minutes. The odor of hydrogen cyanide is detectable at 2-10 ppm (OSHA PEL = 10 ppm), but does not provide adequate warning of hazardous concentrations. Perception of the odor is a genetic trait (20% to 40% of the general population cannot detect hydrogen cyanide); also, rapid olfactory fatigue can occur. Hydrogen cyanide is lighter than air.

Children exposed to the same levels of hydrogen cyanide as adults may receive larger doses because they have greater lung surface area:body weight ratios and increased minute volumes:weight ratios.

Skin/Eye Contact

Exposure to hydrogen cyanide can cause skin and eye irritation. More importantly, skin or eye absorption is rapid and contributes to systemic poisoning. After skin exposure, onset of symptoms may be immediate or delayed for 30 to 60 minutes. Most cases of toxicity from dermal exposure have been from industrial accidents involving partial immersion in liquid cyanide or cyanide solutions or from contact with molten cyanide salts, resulting in large surface-area burns.


Children are more vulnerable to toxicants absorbed through the skin because of their relatively larger surface area:body weight ratio.
Ingestion

Ingestion of hydrogen cyanide solutions or cyanide salts can be rapidly fatal.

Source: Medical Management Guidelines for Hydrogen Cyanide (HCN)
https://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/MMG/MMG.asp?id=1141&tid=249


Zulu;

You are both "correct" in a sense...

Yes absorption through skin can contribute to systemic poisoning, as well as poison on the hands etc being put into cuts on skin or into orifices like the mouth can further contribute in an OH&S sense and in a sense of poisoning risk.

In short if you get cyanide on your skin- you will want to immediately wash it off and seek treatment.

The notion that the showers opened up their pores to allow the gas to kill faster- is moronic though.

In the manner alleged by every eye witness with the parameters given- inhalation is the only method to even conceivably kill a person in this framework- obviously.

I think that's what he was trying to say- even though it's technically incorrect- it's correct regarding an extermination program and every lie-witness.

Of course handling the stuff without gloves and protective equipment etc is equally absurd also.


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