Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

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Carto's Cutlass Supreme
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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 3 months ago (Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:39 pm)

Nicely done. Well organized.

Exposing the world's most well-known holocaust fraud who also is a pro-war activist (with Iran) and supports the land taken in 1967 by Israel, would be a major fissure in the holocaust myth.

And I'm glad it gives credit to Eric Hunt for finding that fore-arm footage. Is Hunt the first person who raised the tattoo issue?

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 3 months ago (Thu Jul 22, 2010 4:44 pm)

Now answer my original question.

If and when you receive enough evidence to prove Wiesel a fraud, what, in particular, will you do with it from there?
Or, would you call it a day because "it's an end in itself"?


How demanding you are. Obviously, it remains to be seen, doesn't it?
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 3 months ago (Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:05 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Nicely done. Well organized.

Exposing the world's most well-known holocaust fraud who also is a pro-war activist (with Iran) and supports the land taken in 1967 by Israel, would be a major fissure in the holocaust myth.

And I'm glad it gives credit to Eric Hunt for finding that fore-arm footage. Is Hunt the first person who raised the tattoo issue?


Thank you for the upbeat response, CCS.

Myklos Gruner has a picture taken from the film in his book Stolen Identity and he pointed out there was no tattoo.
Gruner is the original instigator of all this, and he contacted Eric to congratulate Eric for his encounter with Wiesel in San Francisco and to offer assistance.
Eric is very interested in video. Once it got talked about it here on the codoh forum, Eric captured some stills from the 1996 Wiesel video and made them available,
and then used some of the video for his short version. (I think that's how it went; if not, I hope Eric will correct me.) If he had the funds, he would do more.

We're asking for donations so we can do more. There is lots to do.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Bradley » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 22, 2010 7:59 pm)

Warden:
You ask an interesting question: "If and when you receive enough evidence to prove Wiesel a fraud,
what, in particular, will you do with it from there?"

For myself, I don't know, have no specific suggestions at this time.
I think it is difficult to plan Chapter Two when you are only getting started on Chapter One.
If you were writing a novel, it might be different.
Meanwhile, it is an interesting question. Do you have any suggestions?

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby vincentferrer » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:06 pm)

I think Warden is asking the wrong question.

When it is revealed or proven beyond ALL doubt this man is a fraud, it will serve to add one more building block in the wall of truth that Revisionists have worked decades to construct in the face of brutal repression, threats and more.

I have converted a large number of people ( lawyers, doctors, teachers, judges, priests, high ranking military brass, and even some writers) to Revisionism these past seven years but I did it on facts not hearsay, opinion or speculation.

The more frauds that can be exposed in this hoax, the stronger the voice of the Revisionist. I have exposed several prominent holocaust promoters as
frauds who knew next to nothing about the holohoax, but told the world they were experts in holocaustanity.

Who knows what this accomplishes. The fact is this story is huge and people will pursue it. It already has huge momentum.
The very word holocaust is a pejorative to every German citizen. There was no holocaust,
just lies from the abandoned race.

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:50 pm)

Carolyn Yeager wrote:
SevenUp wrote:The website has a great 'look'.

But this needs to be re-written for sure ...

But the account Wiesel gives of Auschwitz-Birkenau is fictional indeed, not conforming to the accepted historiography of the camp during the time he was supposedly there. For example, there is no mention of homicidal gas chambers in Night, which were allegedly working day and night during the summer of 1944 with the arrival of the Hungarian Jews,


Thanks SevenUp. You are invited to contribute an essay/article/blog/research piece about Night. Begin right now. :D
[...]


SevenUp,
I just came across this important page by Prof. Kenneth Walzer. He's coming out with a new book The Rescue of Children at Buchenwald, which will get a Big Reception. This is helpful for the article on Night you're working on. :wink: You'll get a jump on him. This is how a Jewish professor of German History and Jewish Studies explains away all the discrepancies in Wiesel's books to the reality. Not very convincing. It also shows me that I need to make some changes to my Famous Buchenwald Liberation Photo page. But I'm happy with that. It's a good find.

http://special.news.msu.edu/holocaust/wiesel.php?wiesel

Soon after one of her Book Club selections, a memoir by James Frey, was revealed to be fiction rather than faithful recollection, Oprah Winfrey announced that Elie Wiesel's memoir of his Holocaust experience, "Night," would be her next Book Club choice.

"Night" is an authentic and faithful recollection of Wiesel's experience at Auschwitz and at Buchenwald that originally appeared in 1958. It is an important Holocaust memoir, a key testimony. Yet we should not be surprised that even a memoir like "Night" is somewhat selective in its retelling. Writer Naomi Seidman has described how the text was transformed as Wiesel rewrote and shortened it from the original Yiddish, "Un di velt hot geshvign," to the subsequent French, "La nuit" I want to offer additional observations based on research for a book I am writing called "The Rescue of Children at Buchenwald."

"Night" focuses primarily on the relationship of a father and son who, ripped [?] by the Nazis in mid-1944 from their home in Sighet, Romania, were taken to Auschwitz and to Buna, where they labored as prisoners until January 1945. Both were forced [?] on a death march, and then were sent to Buchenwald, arriving January 26. When Wiesel loses his father three days later, after they have been inducted into Buchenwald, Wiesel drifts in "Night" into a listlessness and fog from which (we know from his later autobiography) he emerged only after liberation. Wiesel recalls thereafter in "Night"only the terrible final days of the camp, in early April 1945, when the Nazis sought first to evacuate Jewish prisoners and then to take all prisoners out together. He was too weak at liberation on April 11 to leave his barracks (hence he was photographed in a famous picture in the barracks on April 12 or 13), [No, it was April 16 and Walzer must/should know that] and he came to understand he was free only days later.

In his autobiography, "All Rivers Run to the Sea" (1995), Wiesel writes that he recalls some time in which he mechanically played chess in the barracks and a Passover service and not much else before the liberation. In "Night" his focus as a writer is primarily on his relation with his father, the presence or absence of God during this ordeal, and his own survival as a person alone and its meaning. He becomes alone and feels alone after his father's death, for this death, he has said many times, also extinguished a part of himself. Writing in this fashion, Wiesel fails to address clearly in "Night" the social context of his existence during the final months of his captivity. The barracks, his place in the camp and his relation to others—other prisoners, Jews, boys—all remain murky save for a brief statement: "I was transferred to the children’s block, where there were six hundred of us."

What is omitted or slighted in "Night" is that during the final months at Buchenwald, the 16-year old Wiesel was assigned to a special barracks that was created and maintained by the clandestine underground resistance in the camp as part of a strategy of saving youths. This block, Block 66, was located in the deepest part of the disease-infested little camp, a separate space below the main camp at Buchenwald that was beyond the normal Nazi SS gaze (the local SS officer actively cooperated and conducted appels inside the barracks). [Then why was he in the picture in Adult Block 56?]

The barracks was overseen by block elder Antonin Kalina, a Czech Communist from Prague, and his deputy, Gustav Schiller, a Polish-Jewish Communist originally from Lvov. Odon Gati, a Communist from Budapest, was stubendienst. Schiller, who appears briefly in "Night," was a father figure and mentor, especially for the Polish-Jewish boys and many of the Czech-Jewish boys, but he was less liked, and even feared, by Hungarian- and Romanian-Jewish boys, especially religious boys, including Wiesel. He appears in "Night" as a menacing figure, armed with a truncheon.

After late January 1945, the underground concentrated all children and youths who could be fit into this windowless barracks—more than 600 children and youth, mostly Jews—and sheltered and protected them. Younger children, like Israel Meir Lau (Lulek) from Piotrkow, later the Chief Ashkenazi rabbi of Israel, not yet 8 years old, and several others were secreted in Block 8 in the main camp and watched by German and Russian prisoners there. Still others, as young as 4 years old, including Josef Shleifstein of Sandomierz and Stefan Jerzy Zweig (Juschu) of Cracow, were hidden elsewhere throughout the camp. When General George Patton's Third United States Army arrived on April 11, 1945, more than 900 children and youth—mostly teenagers, but also younger boys—were discovered among the 21,000 emaciated prisoners. They were alive in part due to a remarkable effort by key elements in the Communist-led underground to assist them to survive until liberation.

Elie Wiesel has acknowledged the role played by the clandestine underground and political prisoners in saving children and youth at Buchenwald, especially in his autobiography, but he did not attend to this in "Night." It was not his purpose or focus in that book. Many of his fellow barracks members, however, who are still alive and remember very well their days and nights in Block 66; their relations with Kalina, Schiller and others; and the hope provided to them there, have been helping fill in the story. Wiesel has generously offered assistance himself.

In this barracks, these survivors recall being protected and sheltered from work, save for occasional forays to clean up after bombing raids in nearby Weimar, where they scavenged for food. They recall extra food in Red Cross packages distributed to them from Danish and other political prisoners in the main camp. They recall efforts by their mentors to raise their horizons in the barracks—songs, stories, even history and math lessons—to convince them there was another world awaiting them. And they recall heroic intervention by Kalina and Schiller during the final days to protect them from being led out when the Nazis sought to clear Jews from the camp.

Many of the boys, despite all that was done for them, were nonetheless marched to the main gate on April 10 and lined up to be marched out. Wiesel says this in "Night": "So we were massed in the huge assembly square in rows of five, waiting to see the gate open." However, American airplanes flew overhead, sirens sounded, the guards ran to the shelters, and Kalina, who marched with them, ordered the boys back to the barracks. They were still there the next afternoon when advanced armored units of the Third Army drove SS guards from the camp towers, the resistance took control, and Americans arrived inside Buchenwald.

Even authentic memoirs are selective, crafted around fragments or pieces of memory, and related in ways shaped by the writer's purpose. It is to be hoped that new attention to Wiesel’s experience and survival at Buchenwald may now also include appreciation of this social and political dimension—that the solitary figure was not alone, though he surely and deeply felt so; he was among hundreds of children and youth rescued or aided by a purposeful effort by elements of the clandestine resistance. In "Night," Wiesel says that when he viewed himself in a mirror after liberation, he saw a corpse gazing back at him. But another picture taken after liberation on April 17, when the boys were led to the former SS barracks outside the camp, shows Wiesel marching out, fourth on the left, among a phalanx of youth moving together, heads held high, a group together guided by prisoners who had helped save them.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 23, 2010 1:37 am)

The image on the left of Wiesel and that woman works nicely. The different expressions work so well together. Pretty hilarious!

Regarding Waltzer: while he was instrumental, even responsible, in exposing Herman Rosenblat, but he strongly stuck up for the veracity of Irene Zisblatt as can be seen in his review on Amazon of her book "The Fifth Diamond" and some of the threads here.

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby The Warden » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:06 am)

Bradley wrote:Warden:
You ask an interesting question: "If and when you receive enough evidence to prove Wiesel a fraud,
what, in particular, will you do with it from there?"

For myself, I don't know, have no specific suggestions at this time.
I think it is difficult to plan Chapter Two when you are only getting started on Chapter One.
If you were writing a novel, it might be different.
Meanwhile, it is an interesting question. Do you have any suggestions?


At the time, no, I didn't, which is what led to me ask the question.
I really didn't see the perceived viability of proving Wiesel a fraud like the others appeared to do.
I believe it's important to expose him, and for all intents and purposes, I think there's enough evidence to do so, but as far as compounding it into something larger, I only see one option; To use his fraudulent existence as a way to hammer the universities. Once the evidence is secure (I'm talking about being able to withstand any and all criticism), Boston University should be held accountable for for some kind of negligence. From there, it might open the door to putting all academic institutions "on notice" about backing hoaxers for no other reason than because they're hoaxers. If anything, in theory, it would put a halt to the carte blanche attitude of hoax purveyors in positions of education. Making the universities corral some of their (what I would call) extremists would be a huge step.

This all rests on several factors, but if it's just "Hey look, Wiesel's a fraud!", then what's the point?
It would be like having every book in the world at your disposal, and being illiterate.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:05 am)

The Warden wrote: At the time, no, I didn't, which is what led to me ask the question.
I really didn't see the perceived viability of proving Wiesel a fraud like the others appeared to do.
I believe it's important to expose him, and for all intents and purposes, I think there's enough evidence to do so, but as far as compounding it into something larger, I only see one option; To use his fraudulent existence as a way to hammer the universities. Once the evidence is secure (I'm talking about being able to withstand any and all criticism), Boston University should be held accountable for for some kind of negligence. From there, it might open the door to putting all academic institutions "on notice" about backing hoaxers for no other reason than because they're hoaxers. If anything, in theory, it would put a halt to the carte blanche attitude of hoax purveyors in positions of education. Making the universities corral some of their (what I would call) extremists would be a huge step.

This all rests on several factors, but if it's just "Hey look, Wiesel's a fraud!", then what's the point?
It would be like having every book in the world at your disposal, and being illiterate.


There is nothing you have said here that "we" don't already know and understand the possibilities of, and, in fact, it's already on the site under our project 'Boston University.' Is that where you got your idea? Or are you expressing your concern with the "viability" of the site without reading it?

What we are asking of people is to take action as we are suggesting and putting it forth on the website. That's how to help. If you want to begin contacting academics at Boston U, perhaps coming up with some sample letters as you think they should be written (although we don't want form letters), or organizing a letter-writing campaign among your contacts, that would be constructive. Commenting at the website in a positive way, and helping people to take action, would also be constructive. No carping, please. :)
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:11 pm)

Mr. Warden,
You are not following your own questions.
Let's review your answers to my question about the future of the Wiesel issue:
Carolyn Yeager wrote:
If Elie Wiesel is proved a fraud, that is an end in itself. Mission accomplished.


Yes. Our intention is to prove Elie Wiesel is a fraud. If/when we do that, we have accomplished our intention. Plain English, isn't it? Too plain for your "advanced" mind?

Is it your practice as a revisionist to criticize things without reading them? Obviously so, and now you are trying to blame me for it ... for not giving you a personal tutorial. People are going to assume you have read carefully the things you comment on; get used to it. A problem you may have is that you think you know more than you do, and you think you're going to teach more experienced revisionists a thing or two.

Your psychological analysis of me is what is childish and laughable. Perhaps you're another one of those therapists. Is that why you keep talking about the psychological approach to the masses out there? Well, do your thing.
In Jewish history there are no coincidences ... Elie Wiesel
Learn more at http://eliewieseltattoo.com

Auschwitz: The Underground Guided Tour http://carolynyeager.net/auschwitz-unde ... uided-tour

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Moderator3 » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:38 pm)

Warden,
Your posts in this thread seem a like an attempt at obfuscation. Yeager has responded to you, enough is enough.
m3

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Cloud » 9 years 2 months ago (Sat Jul 24, 2010 12:59 pm)

The Warden wrote:I don't want to be the "stick in the mud" or come across as challenging the idea, but I'm curious as to the final goal(s) of this site.

If the goal is to prove Wiesel a fraud, then what?


He is an important figure in the Holocaust religion, analogous to a prominent bishop. If he could be successfully exposed as a fraud, no one will be able to cite him any longer as "proof" of the Holocaust.

And the students at BU that took his course in the past should get their tuition money back for being cheated.

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby The Warden » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:29 pm)

Cloud wrote:
The Warden wrote:I don't want to be the "stick in the mud" or come across as challenging the idea, but I'm curious as to the final goal(s) of this site.

If the goal is to prove Wiesel a fraud, then what?


He is an important figure in the Holocaust religion, analogous to a prominent bishop. If he could be successfully exposed as a fraud, no one will be able to cite him any longer as "proof" of the Holocaust.

And the students at BU that took his course in the past should get their tuition money back for being cheated.


Refunds? Small potatoes. Half of them would probably donate their refund to his legal defense fund.

Anyway, you mentioned above he is "an important figure in the Holocaust religion".
Wrong, he was.
Now, he's a fraud.

He should be treated as such. Minimal attention and ignored. It's time to turn his method against him.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Cloud » 9 years 2 months ago (Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:34 pm)

The Warden wrote:Refunds? Small potatoes. Half of them would probably donate their refund to his legal defense fund.

Anyway, you mentioned above he is "an important figure in the Holocaust religion".
Wrong, he was.
Now, he's a fraud.

He should be treated as such. Minimal attention and ignored. It's time to turn his method against him.


No fraud should ever go unpunished, especially this one. It is a pity that the modern world has dispensed with the use of medieval style punishments, as a public flogging would be appropriate here. Now, one is simply sent to prison to play cards and lift weights.

By the way, you have an interesting signature there, Warden. I've noticed lately here that posts and threads vanish without a trace like 6,000,000 bodies off the face of the Earth. For example, one fellow asked about cremations and hearts, but that thread is now gone. I have no material evidence to prove this (ie, before and after screenshots), but only my time eroding memory (ie, eyewitness testimony).

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Re: Website Challenging Elie Wiesel Now Online

Postby Moderator3 » 9 years 2 months ago (Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:29 pm)

I've noticed lately here that posts and threads vanish without a trace like 6,000,000 bodies off the face of the Earth. For example, one fellow asked about cremations and hearts, but that thread is now gone.
And for good reason, otherwise this forum will become a jumbled mess; which is exactly what some people want.
i.e.:
If someone's posts to a thread are not related to the thread's subject, they will be deleted, as stated in guidelines.
Threads which are started, but not related to the "holocaust" story, will be deleted, as stated in our published guidelines.
etc.

Read the guidelines again ... which everyone agreed to when they registered.
Rules and Guidelines:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=358

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