Denial of the Holocaust and the genocide in Auschwitz

[Malle]

I found an article written by Franciszek Piper (the same fellow as in David Cole’s video) at the official web site “Official site of the Auschwitz-Birkenau Memorial and State Museum” It’s about Holocaust denial, and here we have it direct from the horse’s mouth. One page 1 we have some smokescreens:

Despite the fact that the tens of thousands of prisoners who survived Auschwitz were witnesses to the crimes committed there; despite the fact that they left behind thousands of depositions, accounts, and memoirs; despite the fact that considerable quantities of documents, photographs, and material objects remain from the camp—despite all of this, there are people and organizations who deny that hundreds of thousands of people were murdered in this camp, that gas chambers operated there, or that the crematoria could burn several thousand corpses per day. In other words, they deny that Auschwitz was the scene of genocide.

When will this guy get it? It doesn’t matter if he put forward 100.000 eyewitnesses or 100.000 tons of documents or 100.000 pieces of that junk they have in their museum, we are looking for THE document. THE document will tell us how the Germans made a functional homicidal gas chamber and manage to dispose the bodies without almost a trace. Revisionists have smashed all his evidence and he knows it. But he must lie to the average reader so they won’t know.

Further below on the page:

• First: they limited the written record of their crime to a minimum;
• Second: they falsified the record, to the degree that technical and organizations made its existence necessary;
• Third: they destroyed the superfluous and the most incriminating part of the record, once it had served its purpose, in the final phase of the Third Reich. They destroyed not only documents. They also destroyed the mass killing apparatus and liquidated the witnesses.

Sounds familiar? But wait a minute, didn’t he say in the first sentence; “despite the fact that considerable quantities of documents, photographs, and material objects remain”?

On page 2 it continues:

The literature that denies the Holocaust and genocide sometimes takes the form of pseudo-scientific studies furnished with scholarly apparatus in the form of footnotes, extensive bibliographies, and indexes, intended to create an impression of credibility and full objectivity. More frequently, however, these are essays dripping with irony, sarcasm, and mockery. This kind of denial arises out of a certain world-view based on prejudices, xenophobia, and nationalism.

Mr Piper, we haven’t seen any scientific reports from your side of the aisle, people like Germar Rudolf, Jürgen Graf, Thomas Kues or Carlo Mattogno, just to mention some names. Oh yes, I forgot your “Krakow-report” which Germar Rudolf shredded completely. And while we are at it, the Kola-reports from Belzec and Sobibór wasn’t any hit either.

On page 3:

The deniers of the Holocaust and genocide attack three facts in particular:

• the existence of the gas chambers
• the capacity of the crematoria in the camps, which far exceeded the natural death rate
• the enormous scale of the crime.

According to Professor Yisrael Gutman of the Yad Vashem Memorial Institute in Israel, the use of the term “Polish concentration camps” is a form of Holocaust denial. It is a conscious or unconscious way of changing victims into perpetrators and an attempt to blur the question of responsibility for the crime.

Yes Mr Piper, we haven’t seen any functional homicidal German gas chamber, only reconstructions that couldn’t function as a homicidal gas chamber. The capacity of the crematoria we know today, it doesn’t exceed the natural death rate when typhus was raging. And “the enormous scale of the crime” is we still puzzled about. Where were the organization and the budget?

Teams of pseudo-experts posing as tourists clandestinely gouge chunks of plaster from the walls of the gas chambers and later submit them to chemical analysis for the presence of hydrogen cyanide compounds. The quantity of these compounds is always, of course, too small to state that people were killed in the gas chambers.

See answer about the “Krakow-report”.

On page 5 we find this beauty:

A certified German chemist, Germar Rudolf, holder of a doctorate from the respected Max Planck Institute (which totally disavowed Rudolf’s efforts in the field), carried out similar “research” in 1991-1992. Rudolf was sentenced to 14 months imprisonment in Germany in 1994. He escaped to England, and from there to the USA, which in turn deported him in 2005 to Germany, where he was convicted once again of denying the existence of the gas chambers and sentenced to a year and a half behind bars.

Mr Piper, why don’t you present any refuting of Germar Rudolf’s findings? Why do you only smear him? You do the same on page 4 with Leuchter and on the same page as Rudolf you smear Walter Lüftl too.

On the last pages he continues with his smear on all known revisionists. It’s the same mantra over again.

Source: http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/h/index.php? ... mitstart=0

[gbrecht]

or that the crematoria could burn several thousand corpses per day.

What was the exact number of crematory ovens at Auschwitz 1, 2 and 3?

Does anyone have a list?

[Hektor]

or that the crematoria could burn several thousand corpses per day.

What was the exact number of crematory ovens at Auschwitz 1, 2 and 3?
Does anyone have a list?

Don't forget to ask how many were functional at any given time.

[David Baker]

Malle,

Mr. Piper has "Denied the Holocaust". Mr Weisel has "Denied the Holocaust". Ms Frank has "Denied the Holocaust". Every allied commander and western official who wrote their memoirs about WWII "Denied the Holocaust". Even the famous Nazi Hunter himself has "Denied the Holocaust". Let's start with Anne Frank: Her alleged "Diary" does not mention gas chambers at Auschwitz. Mr. Piper admitted that the "Gas Chamber" on display at Auschwitz wasn't built until after WWII. He also presided over the changing of the Auschwitz plaque, which substantially lowered the number of Jews 'executed' at the camp. Mr. Weisel's treatise on his tenure at Auschwitz does not mention gas chambers. The famous Nazi Hunter admitted there were no gassings in Germany, despite the testimony of witnesses who claimed gassings were taking place in that country. EVERY western allied commander and civilian official who wrote their memoirs did not mention a Jewish "Holocaust", much less gas chambers. If "Denying the Holocaust" entails not mentioning gas chambers, Jews have beat revisionists hands down!

[Lohengrin]

Mr. Piper is an outright liar.

Proof of it is easy to deliver.

I restrict this first to the point that he was the man who for decades, stood next to presidents, kings and Popes wailing about the "4 million people murdered in Auschwitz by the Nazi's" and second to his nonsens about cremation capacity.

His anti-revisionistic remarks about the cremation capacity of Auschwitz are laughable: all cremation ovens together operating - which never was the case - could handle not more than 1100 bodies a day.

Moreover, the total installed capacity of ALL Birkenau crematoria was less than the cremation capacity existing in non-"gassing" camps as Buchenwald, Stutthof, and even Auschwitz I !!!

In Auschwitz-Birkenau existed 46 'muffles' (Krema I was closed down), designed for 200.000 inmates in Birkenau.
This is only 1 muffle for 4.350 inmates.

The former Krema in Auschwitz I had 6 muffles for 20.000 inmates, that's 1 muffle for 3.300 inmates, i.e. a greater capacity in a period when nobody spoke of "mass gassings"!

Stutthof had 15 muffles planned for 30.000 inmates, i.e. 1 muffle for 2.000 inmates!

Buchenwald had 1 muffle for 3.000 inmates.

Oranienburg had 1 muffle for 4.125 inmates.

So, all those "non-gassing" camps had higher cremation capacities than Auschwitz-Birkenau!

Okay, the number of 200.000 inmates in Birkenau was not reached; it came to 140.000. However, to it came 20.000 inmates of Auschwitz I, which Krema went out of use, 32 Sub-camps of Auschwitz, the many dead in incoming trains and the burden of frequent typhus epidemics.

Thus, it is crystal clear that the cremation capacity of Birkenau was completely NORMAL and even less than that of "non-gassing" camps and absolutely not designed nor capable of "tens of thousands extra corpses daily from so called "gassings".

Piper and associates are outright liars.

[jheitwler]

Let's start with Anne Frank: Her alleged "Diary" does not mention gas chambers at Auschwitz.

I think her diary ends when she was shipped off to Auschwitz but I'm not sure. If it does there wouldn't be any mention of Auschwitz or Buchenwald in it.

Franciszek Piper wrote:Despite the fact that the tens of thousands of prisoners who survived Auschwitz were witnesses to the crimes committed there; despite the fact that they left behind thousands of depositions, accounts, and memoirs; despite the fact that considerable quantities of documents, photographs, and material objects remain from the camp—despite all of this, there are people and organizations who deny that hundreds of thousands of people were murdered in this camp, that gas chambers operated there, or that the crematoria could burn several thousand corpses per day. In other words, they deny that Auschwitz was the scene of genocide.

I love this kind of moronic rhetoric. He says that "despite the fact that tens of thousands of prisoners who survived Auschwitz were witnesses....." No, not Despite, it's because of all the survivors that we question the story.

Franciszek Piper wrote:A certified German chemist, Germar Rudolf, holder of a doctorate from the respected Max Planck Institute (which totally disavowed Rudolf’s efforts in the field), carried out similar “research” in 1991-1992. Rudolf was sentenced to 14 months imprisonment in Germany in 1994. He escaped to England, and from there to the USA, which in turn deported him in 2005 to Germany, where he was convicted once again of denying the existence of the gas chambers and sentenced to a year and a half behind bars.

You say he holds a doctorate from a well respected research institute and then in the next sentence you say he was imprisoned. Was he imprisoned because he holds a respectable doctorate? WTF?

[The Warden]

Just to add to Lohengrin's summary of the crematoria being incapable of the numbers claimed by the Exaggerationists:

http://www.vho.org/GB/Journals/JHR/8/3/ ... 3-358.html

http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html

[David Baker]

Jheitwler,

You ignore the significance of Anne Frank in sustaining the Holocaust aura. If you ask people where and how she died, many of them will say "Auschwitz, in a gas chamber". The canonization of this young woman betrays a very standard liberal tactic for embellishing whatever "Horror" they are currently whining about. Young girls struggling through trials and tribulations plucks at the heartstrings of both men AND, especially, women. You'll notice the lack of Holocaust 'victims' who were pimps, crooks, enemy agents, spies and other shady operators. The "Survivors" who parade around the world relating their experiences (and receiving a sizable honorarium for the effort..) will not cite their particular relationship or knowledge of Anne Frank, but they DO benefit from their 'association' with her, particularly if they were at Auschwitz, or Bergen-Belsen. These people talk about GAS CHAMBERS, and other horrible scenes of hate and death. Anne Frank's diary contains none of these episodes. You know, there is a very good reason for that...

[Hans]

Mr. Piper is an outright liar.

Proof of it is easy to deliver.

I restrict this first to the point that he was the man who for decades, stood next to presidents, kings and Popes wailing about the "4 million people murdered in Auschwitz by the Nazi's" and second to his nonsens about cremation capacity.

His anti-revisionistic remarks about the cremation capacity of Auschwitz are laughable: all cremation ovens together operating - which never was the case - could handle not more than 1100 bodies a day.

Moreover, the total installed capacity of ALL Birkenau crematoria was less than the cremation capacity existing in non-"gassing" camps as Buchenwald, Stutthof, and even Auschwitz I !!!

In Auschwitz-Birkenau existed 46 'muffles' (Krema I was closed down), designed for 200.000 inmates in Birkenau.
This is only 1 muffle for 4.350 inmates.

The former Krema in Auschwitz I had 6 muffles for 20.000 inmates, that's 1 muffle for 3.300 inmates, i.e. a greater capacity in a period when nobody spoke of "mass gassings"!

Stutthof had 15 muffles planned for 30.000 inmates, i.e. 1 muffle for 2.000 inmates!

Buchenwald had 1 muffle for 3.000 inmates.

Oranienburg had 1 muffle for 4.125 inmates.

So, all those "non-gassing" camps had higher cremation capacities than Auschwitz-Birkenau!

Okay, the number of 200.000 inmates in Birkenau was not reached; it came to 140.000. However, to it came 20.000 inmates of Auschwitz I, which Krema went out of use, 32 Sub-camps of Auschwitz, the many dead in incoming trains and the burden of frequent typhus epidemics.

Thus, it is crystal clear that the cremation capacity of Birkenau was completely NORMAL and even less than that of "non-gassing" camps and absolutely not designed nor capable of "tens of thousands extra corpses daily from so called "gassings".

Piper and associates are outright liars.

This comparison is somewhat flawed. You are just comparing muffles, but the Birkenau ovens had a higher cremation capacity than the ovens supplied by Topf to the concentrations camps in some years before. Also the number of inmates you provide is not consistent.

A more comprehensive analysis of this problem is provided by Van Pelt in his expert report for the Irving vs. Lipstadt trial. According to this, when the extermination of Jews was implemented in Auschwitz, the camp was supposed to have a cremation capacity per inmate which was twice as high as compared to Buchenwald or Dachau.

If we now apply your reasoning, the cremation capacity of Birkenau was completely anormal for a "non-gassing" camp!

[Carolyn Yeager]

Mr. Piper is an outright liar.

Proof of it is easy to deliver.

I restrict this first to the point that he was the man who for decades, stood next to presidents, kings and Popes wailing about the "4 million people murdered in Auschwitz by the Nazi's" and second to his nonsens about cremation capacity.

His anti-revisionistic remarks about the cremation capacity of Auschwitz are laughable: all cremation ovens together operating - which never was the case - could handle not more than 1100 bodies a day.

Moreover, the total installed capacity of ALL Birkenau crematoria was less than the cremation capacity existing in non-"gassing" camps as Buchenwald, Stutthof, and even Auschwitz I !!!

In Auschwitz-Birkenau existed 46 'muffles' (Krema I was closed down), designed for 200.000 inmates in Birkenau.
This is only 1 muffle for 4.350 inmates.

The former Krema in Auschwitz I had 6 muffles for 20.000 inmates, that's 1 muffle for 3.300 inmates, i.e. a greater capacity in a period when nobody spoke of "mass gassings"!

Stutthof had 15 muffles planned for 30.000 inmates, i.e. 1 muffle for 2.000 inmates!

Buchenwald had 1 muffle for 3.000 inmates.

Oranienburg had 1 muffle for 4.125 inmates.

So, all those "non-gassing" camps had higher cremation capacities than Auschwitz-Birkenau!

Okay, the number of 200.000 inmates in Birkenau was not reached; it came to 140.000. However, to it came 20.000 inmates of Auschwitz I, which Krema went out of use, 32 Sub-camps of Auschwitz, the many dead in incoming trains and the burden of frequent typhus epidemics.

Thus, it is crystal clear that the cremation capacity of Birkenau was completely NORMAL and even less than that of "non-gassing" camps and absolutely not designed nor capable of "tens of thousands extra corpses daily from so called "gassings".

Piper and associates are outright liars.

This comparison is somewhat flawed. You are just comparing muffles, but the Birkenau ovens had a higher cremation capacity than the ovens supplied by Topf to the concentrations camps in some years before. Also the number of inmates you provide is not consistent.

A more comprehensive analysis of this problem is provided by Van Pelt in his expert report for the Irving vs. Lipstadt trial. According to this, when the extermination of Jews was implemented in Auschwitz, the camp was supposed to have a cremation capacity per inmate which was twice as high as compared to Buchenwald or Dachau.

If we now apply your reasoning, the cremation capacity of Birkenau was completely anormal for a "non-gassing" camp!

I am beginning to see just how these holocaust promoters, or 'exaggerationists', like Hans operate. They say they have a reason for finding you wrong and refer you to a book or long report (usually without giving a link to it and which most people will never go to) that backs up their view. They don't themselves argue the point. They create confusion around the issue. For anyone who knows something, they are entirely unconvincing, but they hope to uphold some kind of presence in the debate thereby. It is the best they can do, so they do it, hoping to maybe fool a few people that there really is another side -- their side.

It gets really boring and tiresome.

[Hans]

I am beginning to see just how these holocaust promoters, or 'exaggerationists', like Hans operate. They say they have a reason for finding you wrong and refer you to a book or long report (usually without giving a link to it and which most people will never go to) that backs up their view.

Come on, the "van Pelt report" is the first hit on google if you enter this term and is easily found. Well, here it is:

If we now fast forward to February 1943--a time that Birkenau was fully committed to play its central role in the Holocaust--we see that the numbers have changed considerably. In February 1943 the projected inmate population of Auschwitz was 30,000, and of Birkenau 140,000, but the total incineration capacity which was by that time supposed to be available was 75 units.545 This brings the unit-per-inmate ratio to 1 : 2267. This means that, in comparison with Dachau or Buchenwald, Auschwitz has double the incineration capacity. The official incineration capacity of Auschwitz after the completion of all the crematoria was 4,756 corpses per day.546 Assuming the camps to be completed and fully occupied, this would mean that, on average, Auschwitz had an excess incineration capacity of more than 2,350 corpses per day--or, in other words, the ovens could accommodate two daily transports of 1,000 people easily.

http://www.hdot.org/en/trial/defense/van/3

The Van Pelt report on Auschwitz is really a basic source anybody who wants to make any argument against extermination of people in Auschwitz has to read first.

Furthermore, it is really surprising that you have a problem with my post, where I did gave a reference, however you seem to have no problem with Lohengrin's post even though he makes just claims without any reference whatsoever. Very curious, don't you think?

Now, if you google for Lohengrin's numbers you find there are taken from a Dutch person posting at Stormfront as "Riga":

http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t667708/

or from this Dutch article by a certain "Gawain":

http://balder.org/judea/pdf/Gawains-Weerlegging-Van-Nizkors-Holocaustvisie-Stop-Sjoa-Ontkenning-66-Vragen-Ontzenuwd.pdf

As you can see, there is no reference given in these sources either. Perhaps Lohengrin is this Riga/Gawain, or he has just copied it from the Stormfront posting without acknowledgement. Anyway, we are left with an unreferenced claim. Compare this to my posting where did give a reference for my claims. Moreover, the claims made in the Van Pelt report are properly referenced and citations are given.

[The Warden]

Hans, are you ignoring the article I posted earlier?
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndcrema.html

It has plenty of sources as well.

In the interest of space, I didn't copy/paste the entire thing, but it addresses everything from capacities, to the manufacturers, to the coke consumption.
Sections 7, 8, 9, and 10 deal with the major points of interest.

The cremation claims of the Exaggerationists are not possible.
The Lipstadt trial link you posted doesn't refute anything involving the impossibilities of the claims.

[David Baker]

The term"Holocaust Denial" is purposely incendiary. The frequent use of that phrase bestows upon the recipient a vicarious form of guilt for something unproven. It's as if we're supposed to have witnessed the Holocaust unfolding, and now we callously "Deny" seeing it. What I haven't seen is P-R-O-O-F!!! Indeed, there was a shooting war, and Jews were moved around quite openly (even with the parting salvo from their gentile well-wishers yelling "Jews to Soap!" Oh brother!) But no proof exists of gassings, electrocutions, head bashing machines, soap from Jewish fat or Nuclear Death Rays. The crematories existed, and they were utilized as such. Why we now must accept such alarming capacities for those facilities is the 6,000,000 dollar question. There is no way those crematories could have operated as described. That is simply a fact.

[Hans]

The Warden,

Mattogno's description of the cremation capacity of the ovens in Auschwitz in this article is outdated, since it does not discuss two important documents which show the crematorium ovens of Auschwitz in a different light than Revisionists would like them to be. The first is the Erläuterungsbericht of 30 October 1941, according to which the new crematorium in Birkenau will have a cremation rate of 15 min per corpse. The second is a memo by oven engineer Prüfer of 8 September 1942, according to which the ovens in Auschwitz main camp have a cremation rate of 35 min per corpse. More importantly, he is pointing out that the new ovens in Birkenau will have a higher cremation rate than the ovens in the main camp (for references for these documents see for instance Mattogno, Kurt Prüfers Notiz vom 8.9.1942 und die Fantasien des 'Holocaust History Project' in VffG 2004 issue 4). Both documents clearly show that the ovens in Auschwitz were much more powerful than what Mattogno would like us to believe.

[The Warden]

The Warden,

Mattogno's description of the cremation capacity of the ovens in Auschwitz in this article is outdated, since it does not discuss two important documents which show the crematorium ovens of Auschwitz in a different light than Revisionists would like them to be. The first is the Erläuterungsbericht of 30 October 1941, according to which the new crematorium in Birkenau will have a cremation rate of 15 min per corpse. The second is a memo by oven engineer Prüfer of 8 September 1942, according to which the ovens in Auschwitz main camp have a cremation rate of 35 min per corpse. More importantly, he is pointing out that the new ovens in Birkenau will have a higher cremation rate than the ovens in the main camp (for references for these documents see for instance Mattogno, Kurt Prüfers Notiz vom 8.9.1942 und die Fantasien des 'Holocaust History Project' in VffG 2004 issue 4). Both documents clearly show that the ovens in Auschwitz were much more powerful than what Mattogno would like us to believe.

The first is addressed here:
http://www.vho.org/GB/c/CM/lalett.html

Along with the pits and open air claims:
http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/1/Mattogno13-16.html

Mattogno's response to Prufer's statements are here:
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/anf/Mattogno.html
See Chapter 3, Section 2 for capacity, but the entire work is worthy of a read.

I suppose you'll be posting that windbag, Zimmerman's, response next.
Of course, with statements like this:

Mattogno knows that the advantage of making absurd arguments like these is that it is impossible to prove a negative.

One of the points I made in the body disposal study is that since the Germans destroyed all of the relevant records on this topic, there is no way to really know how these ovens functioned.

Although there is no information as to whether this oven was ever overhauled, we can be fairly certain...

We can see where you're heading. This technique of the Exaggerationists is yawn-inducing.
Besides, Mattogno responded to the inevitable Zimmerman posting:
http://vho.org/GB/c/CM/jcz.html


At the end of all of this, the missing element remains; Where are the ashes of the alleged millions of people cremated? Average male and female is roughly 4 and 6 pounds of ash, respectively. Roughly a shoebox full. So I'd like to skip ahead and know where the millions of shoebox's worth of ashes went, especially considering the food and water supplies weren't contaminated from the alleged human remains.