Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

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Eric Hunt
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Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Eric Hunt » 9 years 1 week ago (Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:54 pm)

David Irving points out that these guard towers at Auschwitz don't have any way of getting in them (no ladders) . He says that they were created after the war by the Soviets, and they do not appear in old photographs of the camp.

I'm wondering if we can find angles of the camp today that do feature these flimsy towers, and angles of the camp in operation that will debunk them as Soviet creations, along with the gas chamber chimney that doesn't connect to the building.

GuardTower.jpg


It's said that these photographs are angles from the exact same point, I can't tell.

Auschwitz_faketowers_550.jpg

album-auschwitz-img2.jpg
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 1 week ago (Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:25 pm)

Eric Hunt wrote:David Irving points out that these guard towers at Auschwitz don't have any way of getting in them (no ladders) . He says that they were created after the war by the Soviets, and they do not appear in old photographs of the camp.

I'm wondering if we can find angles of the camp today that do feature these flimsy towers, and angles of the camp in operation that will debunk them as Soviet creations, along with the gas chamber chimney that doesn't connect to the building.

GuardTower.jpg


It's said that these photographs are angles from the exact same point, I can't tell.

Auschwitz_faketowers_550.jpg

album-auschwitz-img2.jpg


It's admitted that the Auschwitz gas chamber chimney was built in 1947 by the Soviets at the same time the roof was changed from a peaked roof to a flat roof, and some openings added over what they now call the gas chamber. This doesn't still need to be proven ... unless I misunderstand you.

Last year, when I was just inside the entrance to Birkenau looking at the "example" barracks they show to tourists, a member of my group spent the time examining the guard tower there. He said the same thing David Irving is saying ... there is no way to get up into it and the wood is newer, cheap wood, not the kind of lumber the Germans would have used or did use to build the camp. He was a German-born man who was a young man and a soldier during those years.

As to the lay of the photographs, I suggest you ask the guy who runs Scrapbookpages Blog.
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Malle » 9 years 1 week ago (Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:06 am)

The guard towers were there in 1945. Photo taken by the SOVIETS in winter 1945 and summer 1945 are here:
http://www.air-photo.com/english/wide.html
I can’t see if there are any ladders on the photos.
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Petschau » 9 years 1 week ago (Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:02 am)

The guard towers in the wartime images do not seem to match those of modern day.
I am looking at the "X" frames supporting the legs in the modern photos which seem to be missing in the 1945 images.
There also appears to be a "back wall" of sorts in the 1945 photos, while the modern versions appear open on all sides.

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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby The Warden » 9 years 1 week ago (Mon Oct 11, 2010 9:41 am)

Image



Not sure if this is a guard shack in the left background, but some of the elders here might know:

Image


Image


We can see ladders which appear to be unfixed here:

Image


It looks like the towers on the outside perimeter had enclosed bases, while inside the camp, ladders leaned upon the side were used.
Perhaps the guard towers used shorter ladders which were pulled into the tower after use to avoid enemies from entering the towers, or even more realistic would be a small fixed ladder to one of the walls of the base. Something completely vertical such as a loft ladder in a barn would be suitable.
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 1 week ago (Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:30 pm)

Petschau wrote:The guard towers in the wartime images do not seem to match those of modern day.
I am looking at the "X" frames supporting the legs in the modern photos which seem to be missing in the 1945 images.
There also appears to be a "back wall" of sorts in the 1945 photos, while the modern versions appear open on all sides.

Not so. If you blow up the photos linked to by Malle, the X frames are clearly there.

But even if you could show that Irving is correct, would it help? The Museum have already admitted that the gas chamber is a "reconstruction".

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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 1 week ago (Mon Oct 11, 2010 4:31 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:
Petschau wrote:The guard towers in the wartime images do not seem to match those of modern day.
I am looking at the "X" frames supporting the legs in the modern photos which seem to be missing in the 1945 images.
There also appears to be a "back wall" of sorts in the 1945 photos, while the modern versions appear open on all sides.

Not so. If you blow up the photos linked to by Malle, the X frames are clearly there.

These photos are taken in 1945, after the Soviets arrived. Most guard towers in all German camps were enclosed, with stairs or a ladder inside, not on the outside.

Kingfisher wrote:But even if you could show that Irving is correct, would it help? The Museum have already admitted that the gas chamber is a "reconstruction".

The reconstruction that the museum admits to on a large display sign outside of the Auschwitz "gas chamber" shows only the arrangement of the rooms inside. It doesn't tell about the changes to the roof. They still say it was used as a gas chamber, while before they changed the roof in 1947, it could not have been. This is not explained.
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 1 week ago (Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:25 pm)

The Warden wrote:
We can see ladders which appear to be unfixed here:

Image




In this picture we can clearly see how the Germans stripped the prisoners naked, and how the prisoners were forced to crawl on the ground because they didn't have the strength to stand up do to malnourishment/starvation. You will also not the German soldier, wearing the secret Romulan cloaking device to make himself invisible, whipping the naked crawling prisoners. :roll:

The ladder in the picture doesn't look like it is for a guard tower. It looks like it was for construction purposes. You can see what looks like scaffolding in the background between the first two prisoners heads.

You can also see a saw horse under the ladder.

To me it looks like the were laying bricks for the wall of the building.

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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby The Warden » 9 years 1 week ago (Tue Oct 12, 2010 8:34 pm)

I merely posted that photo to show the use of movable ladders within the camp. It simply shows they were used.
I don't know whether or not they were used for the guard towers. Perhaps the guard leaving his watch shift took it into the camp after being relieved by the one coming on shift, but since the guard towers appear to be enclosed, it's unlikely, and the towers would probably have an internal fixed ladder.
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 1 week ago (Wed Oct 13, 2010 4:26 pm)

I take your point on the "gas chamber", Carolyn, though I'm not sure how it affects the towers issue.

I'm not sure what you mean about the towers (about which I have no knowledge beyond what is on this thread). Are you of the opinion that the Soviets made changes to, or constructed the towers before the 1945 photos were taken? If so, why do you think they would have done this?

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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 1 week ago (Wed Oct 13, 2010 5:13 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:I take your point on the "gas chamber", Carolyn, though I'm not sure how it affects the towers issue.


Eric Hunt brought up the gas chamber chimney in the beginning post. I thought he was questioning that too, but now I see he was just using it as an example of a Soviet creations after the war. However, you didn't seem to know about the roof.

Kingfisher wrote:I'm not sure what you mean about the towers (about which I have no knowledge beyond what is on this thread). Are you of the opinion that the Soviets made changes to, or constructed the towers before the 1945 photos were taken? If so, why do you think they would have done this?


I can only speculate as to why, since they have never come clean about what they did there. They used the camp to hold German prisoners following the surrender. They may have wanted to show more guard towers than were actually there, in places where they had not been. I'm not saying they tore down the German ones to build these, but that they may have added these.
I'm going by the way they look (not like German ones that we see in the photographs when the Germans were in control) and the material they are made of, as D. Irving has said, and the man with my tour group who investigated the one inside the Birkenau entrance, as I said. I put a good deal of faith in what he said. The one he studied was identical to those skimpy ones in the pictures.

Hell, these towers may have been built by the Poles!
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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby joachim neander » 9 years 3 days ago (Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:42 pm)

Birkenau was not built by the Germans for eternity. The material used was, as a rule, of bad quality, a fact about which Camp Commandant Hoess more than once complained, a last time in his memoirs written in Polish captivity. Auschwitz has a rather bad climate, and from the adjacent industrial region of Upper Silesia still today acid rain is pouring down. So wood, steel, and concrete, exposed to the elements, quickly deteriorated and had, for museum purposes (!), to be replaced in the course of the now nearly 70 years since the camp was established. It is normal conservatory work. That, at times, it was done sloppily, is another matter. But nobody should draw too far-reaching consequences from it. To believe that Birkenau did not have watch towers is rubbish. Where else should the over 4,000 SS guards have done their duty?

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Re: Auschwitz Guard Towers - Soviet Creations?

Postby Carolyn Yeager » 9 years 3 days ago (Mon Oct 18, 2010 3:36 pm)

joachim neander wrote:Birkenau was not built by the Germans for eternity. The material used was, as a rule, of bad quality, a fact about which Camp Commandant Hoess more than once complained, a last time in his memoirs written in Polish captivity. Auschwitz has a rather bad climate, and from the adjacent industrial region of Upper Silesia still today acid rain is pouring down. So wood, steel, and concrete, exposed to the elements, quickly deteriorated and had, for museum purposes (!), to be replaced in the course of the now nearly 70 years since the camp was established. It is normal conservatory work. That, at times, it was done sloppily, is another matter. But nobody should draw too far-reaching consequences from it. To believe that Birkenau did not have watch towers is rubbish. Where else should the over 4,000 SS guards have done their duty?

No one has said Birkenau had no guard towers ... just not these particular guard towers. So calling member's comments "rubbish" is inexcusably arrogant. Do you agree that this flimsy open tower shown in the first picture is not an original German built tower? Thus what Poland exhibits at their A-B museum is not all authentic, yet they don't tell the visitors that. A real museum gives as much accurate information as possible; it doesn't try to pawn off fakes to the museum-goers.
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