"Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

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Hektor
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"Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:04 am)

This is in connection with a "Historikerkommission" investigating the alleged role of the "Auswaertige Amt" in the Holocaust. So far I only found German material on the net. Here are some excerpts:
„Liquidation von Juden”

Franz Rademacher (1906-1973) leitete im Auswärtigen Amt das sogenannte Judenreferat. Am 16. Oktober 1941 fuhr er von Berlin aus mit dem Zug nach Belgrad, von dort am 18. April weiter nach Budapest. Im Reiseantrag hieß es als Grund für diese Reise zunächst: „Abschiebung von 8000 Juden”. In das erst anderthalb Jahre später, am 14. April 1943 vollständig ausgefüllte Formular trug Rademacher mit der Hand unter das Feld „Art oder Gegenstand der Dienstgeschäfte” den wahren Grund seiner Reise ein: „Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad und Besprechung mit ungarischen Emissären in Budapest” (siehe unten rechts auf dem Dokument).
Image

Jeder Diplomat wusste von der Existenz der Vernichtungslager. Ein Reiseformular von Franz Rademacher, der das Judenrreferat im Auswärtigen Amt leitete, nennt „Liquidation von Juden” als Zweck einer Dienstreise

http://www.faz.net/s/RubB8A1F85C9BA5496 ... C6E3EB727C



This is about an official trip of Rademacher in October 1941 in 1943 "liquidation of Jews" was filled in as reason.

Any comments?

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Älghuvud » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Oct 30, 2010 1:39 pm)

Hektor wrote:Any comments?


Yes. Strange enough "Liquidation" is the only word that can be read by anyone. The rest is written in Sütterlin.
"They can't prove I wrote it." said the Knave, "There's no name at the end."
"That only makes the matter worse." said the King, "You must have meant some mischief, or else you'd have signed like an honest man."

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sat Oct 30, 2010 11:55 pm)

Älghuvud wrote:
Hektor wrote:Any comments?


Yes. Strange enough "Liquidation" is the only word that can be read by anyone. The rest is written in Sütterlin.

So you are saying "Liquidation" is in a different script then the rest of the text? Can anyone confirm this?

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Älghuvud » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sun Oct 31, 2010 5:22 am)

Hektor wrote:
Älghuvud wrote:
Hektor wrote:Any comments?


Yes. Strange enough "Liquidation" is the only word that can be read by anyone. The rest is written in Sütterlin.

So you are saying "Liquidation" is in a different script then the rest of the text? Can anyone confirm this?


At least it seems as if there were different writers involved. Besides, the word "Liquidation" does not appear very Nazi-like to me. Allegedly most Nazi officials used a code language - similar to that one as in the so called Wannsee Protocol. I do not see any reason why Rademacher should have abandoned the "Abschiebung" (deportation).
Last edited by Älghuvud on Sun Oct 31, 2010 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"They can't prove I wrote it." said the Knave, "There's no name at the end."
"That only makes the matter worse." said the King, "You must have meant some mischief, or else you'd have signed like an honest man."

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Balsamo » 1 decade 5 months ago (Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:36 am)

You should show this to a graphologist... the first world "liquidation" is indeed suspiscious...but the rest is the same writing...

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Hans » 1 decade 5 months ago (Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:28 pm)

I agree that "Liquidierung" seems to be in Latin, whereas the rest seems to be in some German script. But this doesn't necessarily imply a falsification of the document. Post-war tampering with should have left some traces, so this hypothesis could be checked by looking at the original and providing high quality photographs for the rest of us. If there is no sign of altering, the person who created the document in Rademacher's office either changed from Latin to German after starting the sentence or it was filled out by two persons.

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Älghuvud » 1 decade 5 months ago (Mon Nov 01, 2010 2:07 pm)

Hans wrote:I agree that "Liquidierung" seems to be in Latin, whereas the rest seems to be in some German script. But this doesn't necessarily imply a falsification of the document. Post-war tampering with should have left some traces, so this hypothesis could be checked by looking at the original and providing high quality photographs for the rest of us. If there is no sign of altering, the person who created the document in Rademacher's office either changed from Latin to German after starting the sentence or it was filled out by two persons.


Maybe you're right in that there were different people from one office involved. This would fit to my observation that also the Sütterlin handwritings are not completely identical, although Balsamo disagreed about the latter.

Nevertheless it is strange that it is just this important word "Liquidation" that is so clearly visible. As I already said, it seems unlikely to me that Rademacher should have used this treacherous word afterwards for no obvious reason. Why didn't he or his colleague stick to "Abschiebung" (deportation)?

And what's more: "Liquidation" sounds like an anglicism to me. Even you wrote "Liquidierung" instead of "Liquidation".
Last edited by Älghuvud on Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"They can't prove I wrote it." said the Knave, "There's no name at the end."
"That only makes the matter worse." said the King, "You must have meant some mischief, or else you'd have signed like an honest man."

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Hans » 1 decade 5 months ago (Mon Nov 01, 2010 3:06 pm)

Well, a quick search with google in German books prior 1945 shows 88.000 hits for Liquidation and 25.000 hits for Liquidierung, so I think it is fair to say that Liquidation was a very German word at the time and that Rademacher or his staff may have used it. Also to me Liquidierung is more sounding at least when referring to homicidal executions, but then we are not setting any standards, especially not for anybody 65 years ago.

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Älghuvud » 1 decade 5 months ago (Mon Nov 01, 2010 4:14 pm)

Hans wrote:Well, a quick search with google in German books prior 1945 shows 88.000 hits for Liquidation and 25.000 hits for Liquidierung, so I think it is fair to say that Liquidation was a very German word at the time and that Rademacher or his staff may have used it. Also to me Liquidierung is more sounding at least when referring to homicidal executions, but then we are not setting any standards, especially not for anybody 65 years ago.


Maybe. But Hektor was asking for comments. And the word "Liquidation" is an eye-catcher because of its graphologic and contentswise inconsistency with the rest of the document.
"They can't prove I wrote it." said the Knave, "There's no name at the end."
"That only makes the matter worse." said the King, "You must have meant some mischief, or else you'd have signed like an honest man."

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Re: "Liquidation von Juden in Belgrad"

Postby Hektor » 1 decade 5 months ago (Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:41 am)

Hans wrote:I agree that "Liquidierung" seems to be in Latin, whereas the rest seems to be in some German script. But this doesn't necessarily imply a falsification of the document. Post-war tampering with should have left some traces, so this hypothesis could be checked by looking at the original and providing high quality photographs for the rest of us. If there is no sign of altering, the person who created the document in Rademacher's office either changed from Latin to German after starting the sentence or it was filled out by two persons.

Apparently the term used on the document is "Liquidation" not "Liquidierung". Liquidation has a more commercial touch to it, while Liquidierung a more homicidal one. The usage may be a bit out of place, but I don't think that this alone would exclude authenticity.

A change in script would be a strong indicator that something is wrong with the document.


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