Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

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daftman
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Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby daftman » 9 years 1 month ago (Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:00 pm)

For my posts I am only using as REFERENCES the dwgs/blueprints/photos, because they are the only tangible evidence 'supporting the mass extermination of hundreds of thousands of people' with Zyklon-B at Krema II/III.(there is nothing else to reference to and that includes long winded cork-screwing rants). Everybody is free to interpret these blueprints in any way he/she chooses and put the interpretation up for scrutiny). Surely somebody else must have had at least a cursory look at them and found some glaring mistakes and impossibilities and outright idiocies?! This has been done at RODOH “Krema Denial”. The arguments/pictures of the Krema 'deniers' should have sufficed. But the Believers doggedly cling to their beliefs.
To embark on a project on KrII/III, I would consider it essential to analyze the 'blueprints' and photographs rather carefully and objectively. They might just raise a few questions, which would require due consideration first. Everything in my following post can be verified or maybe, wearing Krema goggles, refuted by anybody who can use a photo manipulation programme.

So, if you can do it, DO IT! This is your chance to squeeze the toothpaste back into the tube!

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pic_0.jpg (11.63 KiB) Viewed 3226 times


New terminology:

BD=bakery denier (formerly aka Krema believers), BH=bakery hugger (me) (formerly known as Krema denier)

Mainly used as reference

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part of blueprint, cellar of “KrII”


pics_2

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Here is the view onto the cellar floor, with the extended chute. Distance from “A” (UDR narrow exit) life, to “B” death, (GC entrance) is appr. 5.5 m.

We are being told that from the UDR, holding 2090 people @ 4/persons/sqm, victims were led into the gc, holding 984persons,4/sqm.

inside UDR(scaled)

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Everybody here knows the story, but nevertheless a brief summary ( for beginners ):

The 'UDR' narrows down towards the exit from +-9.5m to 2 m. The 984(minus the space of the pillars) victims 5 m away are being silently herded and compressed into the gc.

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People say nothing. Death comes silently. You do not hear the gc door being forced opened and the kapos and other psychopaths – eating, drinking and smoking- dragging bodies back and forth and on to the lift and so on.....The 1000 future victims, Jews, 'buttock jockeys' and groups of 'mobile ethnic minorities' are also silent. The people behave like terminally ill patients, asking for assisted euthanasia. The wooden doors are impenetrable!

Taking the most 'favourable' figures used by BDs, 4 bodies (floating?) per muffle, as can be seen below; (interesting cremation utensils/-procedure)



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3.5 kg coke, 1 hour cremation time leaves the 1000 persons waiting 16 hours in the 'UDR' for their “shower”! That is excluding the time to bring the bodies up to the ovens. In the real world the waiting time woud be 5-6 days. How deluded do you have to be to believe something like this let alone the delusion that academically trained people must suffer from, who tell other people to believe this to be factual? Future generations will one day find a medical term for this type of brain 'activity'.

This story is so absurd, it flies into the face of common sense and simple logic let alone natural human behaviour. Do you think we could be confronted with something even more absurd?

Yes we can!

The following article was sent to me by a German friend. It was translated from Spanish into German and he translated it into English. Anybody conversant in Spanish should confirm the translation. ( Mr. Makarov seems to contradict himself)

http://www.abc.com.py/abc/nota/70054-Nu ... os-sobre-número-de-muertos-en-Auschwitz/

NEW NUMBERS ABOUT THE DEATH TOLL IN AUSCHWITZ

Moscow (EFE). Between 4 and 6 million people had been killed by the Nazis in the Polish KZ in Auschwitz. This according to published documents by the Russian security services (FSB, ex KGB of USSR), although other sources speak only of 1,1 million persons.

“The fascists did not succeed in destroying all documents about Auschwitz. The Extraordinary Commission [SEC?] which interrogated witnesses and victims [?] reached the conclusion that more than 4 million people died in Auschwitz” explained the Russian historian Vladimir Makarov, the expert of the central archives of the FSB, to the Agency Interfax.

The Polish labourer Anton Hinkish, who had been forced to work on the construction of Auschwitz, declared that during its functioning at least 6 million people had been murdered in that camp, including women, children and the elderly.
Poland commemorates to-morrow the 65th anniversary of the liberation of the extermination camp of Auschwitz-Birkenau (Ozwiecim in Polish and Russian) by the Soviet Army. The camp had been transformed into a museum and was declared 30 years later by UNESCO as “a heritage site for mankind[?]”

According to historians 90% of the victims of Auschwitz, which had been killed with Zyklon B-gas by the Nazis and were later on incinerated, had been Jews transported there from all over Europe. The remainder were Polish partisans, Gypsies, homosexuals and Russian POW.

Makarov emphasized -according to the archives of the FSB- that since 1940 on average 10 trains arrived daily from the Nazi occupied countries with prisoners. Every train had between 40 and 50 coaches/wagons and in every coach were between 50 and 100 people.

70% of arrivals were killed immediately, only for the more stronger ones would the time of their murder be postponed, so that they could use them temporarily as labourers in their war effort, or use them for macabre medical experiments.

The Extraordinary Commission , which investigated the criminal deeds in Auschwitz, determined that since 1940 until the end of January 1945 that camp “operated five crematories with a capacity of about 270.000 corpses PER MONTH”

Emphasis/ […] mine.
If by 'Extraordinary Commission' is meant SEC, Soviet Expert Commission, believers may have a problem, because they quote it ad nauseam as being a source of truth and nothing but the truth.

If you do the maths, don't use a vintage hand held calculator. You might get an 'overflow-error'!


Well, there you have it. This (Auschwitz murders/gassings), according to R Muhlenkamp, was only a fraction of the 'Nazi' crimes.( The back paddeling started already in 2002. Farmhouses! But it's gaining momentum) At that rate there should have been “vast regions of empty Lebensraum for the Germans”. No need to 'create' gigantic massgraves of women and children!

Most of my friends don't have a clue of the actual size of the area between 'UDR' and 'GC'.

A scenario like this could be Dantes 13th level of hell and given even him nightmares; and it goes on for YEARS!?

museum model

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Try to visualize the activities in crematory II (cellar) taking the above nos if the people refuse to behave like that. It must have looked like this:

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Consider: 1 arrow=12 people; black arrows=victims, red arrows=body draggers and gold bucket carriers ( still eating, drinking and smoking). People running all over the place, there is total chaos.
Some abscond up the stairs. Others turn around trying to get back into the 'UDR', or running into the 'gold works'. In the meantime the psychopaths carry on, unhindered, loading (...eating, drinking and smoking) bodies onto the lift for cremation +-3m up to the ground floor.

ALL THIS IS HAPPENING IN AN area THE SIZE OF YOUR LOUNGE/BEDROOM.

However, analyzing the blueprints with some simple logic might give us a completely different picture.

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Top view of part of the ground floor of “KrII”. The grayed out area has no floor (+/- 9sqm),giving us an unobstructed view onto 2 sets of stairs with 12 steps each and a chute leading from ground floor level into the cellar.
The entrance to the stairs and chute is +/- 2.90m wide and +/-2.30m high. Before you reach the stairs, you cross a concrete platform 2.90m wide X 1.40m ( high- lighted ). This makes only sense as a working space for off-loading quantities of material of any kind. The chute presents an interesting 'problem' as well. It extends for 'some reason' far beyond the stairs. Also the side view is very interesting.

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IIRC the chute is/was of plain concrete. A chute of concrete is as good as no chute, unless somebody suggests to roll down Zyklon-B drums. For that one doesn't need a chute like this let alone 2 sets of stairs either side.
At some unknown date, the stairs and chute were removed and the entrance to the cellar was now transferred to the north side and reduced to this crude IDIOCY below.

IIRC the chute is/was of plain concrete. A chute of concrete is as good as no chute, unless somebody suggests to roll down Zyklon-B drums. For that one doesn't need a chute like this let alone 2 sets of stairs either side.
At some unknown date, the stairs and chute were removed and the entrance to the cellar was now transferred to the north side and reduced to this crude IDIOCY below.

PARTII (Coming up)

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby daftman » 9 years 1 month ago (Fri Dec 17, 2010 4:29 pm)

I have a problem. Everytime I want to add a picture the machine freezes up.
I will try later again. Running AVG first.
There are 4 parts alltogether. Sorry about that.

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby holographic » 9 years 1 month ago (Sat Dec 18, 2010 9:03 pm)

Anything BUT daft, daftman! thanks!

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby nathan » 9 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 19, 2010 7:27 am)

Daftman has shoved someone’s thread off the front page so that we can see some toothpaste. Perhaps some expert can help him to consolidate his threads. I am surprised that he is addressing “beginners.” Beginners will take some time to deduce that UDR stands for undressing room.

Using round numbers he considers a story in which 2000 people were crowded into the undressing room and then gassed in two batches of 1000. The second batch had to wait many hours while the first batch were gassed in a room five metres away and then taken up to the crematorium. That would indeed be an incredible story if anyone has tried to tell it. Has anyone? The standard accounts are hard enough to believe, involving numbers that orthodoxy is no longer willing to defend. But do not know of any account in which half the cohort of victims were left in the “Undressing Room” to await their fate.

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby The Warden » 9 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:40 am)

nathan wrote:Using round numbers he considers a story in which 2000 people were crowded into the undressing room and then gassed in two batches of 1000. The second batch had to wait many hours while the first batch were gassed in a room five metres away and then taken up to the crematorium. That would indeed be an incredible story if anyone has tried to tell it.


Especially considering the claims of the infamous "screams" coming from the supposed dying jews. Now I'm no mob mentality expert, but if I'm in a room with 999 other people like me, one room away from 1000 people just like me who are screaming and then suddenly silent, I'm thinking I might just try to organize an effort to overpower the scattered guards to avoid screaming myself.

Is there any logic to be found on the Believers' side?

How can anyone expect 1000 prisoners (who were allegedly aware of their impending death through rumors in the camps) to be unable to even attempt a mass escape?
These people are loony.
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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby nathan » 9 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:55 am)

I seem unable to make myself clear. I am asking who if anyone has actually alleged that this improbable thing happened.

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 9 years 1 month ago (Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:43 pm)

Blurry pictures of building blueprints, computer generated images, and a picture of 2 healthy jews cremating another jew who died from typhus, isn't proof that the holocuast(R) is real

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby The Warden » 9 years 1 month ago (Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:45 pm)

nathan wrote:I seem unable to make myself clear. I am asking who if anyone has actually alleged that this improbable thing happened.


Sorry nathan.

I find a reference in Faurisson's Improvised Gas Chambers & Casual Gassings at Auschwitz & Birkenau,
According to J.-C. Pressac (1989)

Questions Evaded
Pressac has evaded a good twenty essential questions of a technical nature which have been posed by the Revisionists. I shall cite only a few of them:

* - Krema I: How can one explain the presence of a homicidal gas chamberusing Zyklon B (an explosive gas) that opened onto a room where sixcrematory ovens were in operation, sometimes reaching temperatures of800 degrees? How could the supposed gas chamber have had a fragiledoor, one fitted with glass and without a bolt and which, opening asit did to the inside, would have been blocked by heaps of corpses?How could the daily ventilation process have been carried out justtwenty meters away from the windows of the SS hospital?
* - Krema II and III: Since it would appear that the victims came inbatches of 2,000 (16) persons, and it took an hour and a half toincinerate one body in each of the 15 muffles, at the end of thisperiod of time there would still have remained 1,985 bodies toincinerate. Where were they stored in the meantime? How could theventilation be done from the floor to the ceiling (Zyklon is lighterthan air) when everything was set up for ventilation in the oppositedirection? Where did they store the bodies of those who, day in andday out, died of natural causes? In general, how do we reconcile thescanty dimensions of the premises (the little elevator!) with theimmensity of the massacres to be carried out there?
* - Krema IV and V: What were coal stoves doing in the gas chambers?
* - Where were the crowds waiting to enter the crematoria able to gather,considering that the aerial photos taken by the Allies never show eventhe slightest trace of such crowds; and that the area around thecrematoria, far from having been trampled by any crowds, was occupiedby well-laid-out gardens?
* - How is it that the gas slaughterhouses would be located right in themiddle of such a variety of other facilities, which, in strikingcontrast to killing centers, include: a soccer field, hospitalbuildings, decantation basins, and buildings for showering anddisinfection?
* - Where are the countless scientific, technical and medical documentswhich prove that before, during and after the creation and operationof those chemical slaughterhouses (unprecedented in the history ofscience and technology) the Germans supposedly prepared, constructed,and surveyed those pharaonic undertakings for the terrible purposealleged, at a time when circumstances required people to get writtenauthorizations and submit detailed budgets to get even a screw or abrick or a kilo of coal?


The footnote only mentions:
16. This is the figure of the "traditional historians," as Pressac calls them; Pressac himself gives no clear indications on the matter.

If someone is more familiar with Pressac's work, perhaps they can continue to track down the "traditional historians" that Pressac references.
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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:58 pm)

nathan wrote:Daftman has shoved someone’s thread off the front page so that we can see some toothpaste. Perhaps some expert can help him to consolidate his threads. I am surprised that he is addressing “beginners.” Beginners will take some time to deduce that UDR stands for undressing room.

Using round numbers he considers a story in which 2000 people were crowded into the undressing room and then gassed in two batches of 1000. The second batch had to wait many hours while the first batch were gassed in a room five metres away and then taken up to the crematorium. That would indeed be an incredible story if anyone has tried to tell it. Has anyone? The standard accounts are hard enough to believe, involving numbers that orthodoxy is no longer willing to defend. But do not know of any account in which half the cohort of victims were left in the “Undressing Room” to await their fate.


Actually yes, the tour guides told a story very much like that to me back in 2004. Basically they said if there were too many people the overflow sat out on the grass while waiting for the first batch to finish. It lead to a rather lively argument with a retired English chap who thought that was a bit fanciful.....and frowns at his behaviour from other tour participants.

While I realise this is not easy for everybody, actually visiting the site is essential to complete this sort of analysis.

To the best of my knowledge an inspection of the ruins shows that there was neither chute or stairs at that position but the door just opened on the ground floor.

There was only one set of stairs, set outside the building on the other side.

This should be easily visible with the most cursory of archaelogical inspections of both Krema II and III.

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby nathan » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:09 am)

I myself will readily take jnovitz's word for it that in 2004 one of the Auschwitz Museum’s fairground barkers was telling some tall tales about Krema 1. Tall tales seem to me worth refuting only to the extent that they have been published; ideally, a source should be identified. Daftman’s particular tall tale, which is located in the Undressing Room of Krema II, might be more interesting if it has appeared somewhere in print.

I doubt whether I myself would notice anything in the ruins of Krema II that others have not already noticed, but I shall never know.The absence of a chute from the underground part of Krema II would by some be counted an incriminating feature; chutes you don’t need if the corpses-to-be had to walk down.

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Re: Twilight of the Cremas II/III (Coup de grâce)

Postby jnovitz » 9 years 3 weeks ago (Mon Dec 27, 2010 10:27 pm)

I doubt whether I myself would notice anything in the ruins of Krema II that others have not already noticed, but I shall never know.The absence of a chute from the underground part of Krema II would by some be counted an incriminating feature; chutes you don’t need if the corpses-to-be had to walk down.


With respect, I meant that more for daftman. I think he would find a visit very helpful to his analysis (just remember to keep your hands off the Arbeit Macht Frei sign)

In fact, and for some reason I can not have made this clear, there appears to be neither chute or stairs. The door just opens into a corridor on the ground level. As you would have expected from looking at the outside of the building.


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