Jewish victims

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trevor
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Jewish victims

Postby trevor » 8 years 9 months ago (Fri Jan 07, 2011 11:14 am)

joachim neander wrote: But A's crime does not justify B's.


I certainly agree.

But I hope that we can also agree on the subject that all victims are equal, whoever it is. The fact that Jews made themselves "the chosen " victims whose suffering is somehow superior, unique and more important than any suffering of anybody else ever is rather disgusting. Millions of people were killed and suffered in the WWI and before that, millions of soldiers and civilians were killed during the WWII and millions of people were killed after the WWII. Yet we have been ad nauseum bombarded for 70 years, from all media, every day, how Jews suffered and how unique suffering in history that was. They got a country, high compensations , they became uncriticisable, untouchable, everything including their crimes is excused by The Holocaust. Their suffering became a compulsory world-wide religion and they managed to push laws that imprison anybody who dares to SAY something against it or does not fully believe it. It shows their total disregard for the victims of Communism, the victims of WWI and before that , of all non-Jewish victims of WWII and of millions of people killed all over this planet after the WWII up to this day.

There are only maybe 5 Jews in this whole planet who do not agree with it and they feel ashamed. One of them is an admirable person Norman Finkelstein who lost his job over it. He believes in the existence of gas chambers. I have no problem with it. This person has ETHICS and is not a coward.

When people point out how others than Jews suffered, it is not because they want to justify/excuse crime A with crime B. It is because they are sick and tired of the fact how other victims are totally overlooked and neglected. Jews suffered during the WWII but it was nothing "special" in history. It was 70 y. ago and it should be treated just like any other suffering of any other victims up to this day (we do not constantly hear about it do we). Lots of people have been killed up to this day and you can doubt any of it or doubt parts of it or whatever with the only exception- the Jewish Holocaust. If you touch that one , your career, your freedom and even your life is over.

I have many friends who believe in gas chambers but they are sick of how it has been constantly used for 70 years to push Jewish agenda and how the word antisemitism has been misused and unfairly used against everybody whom Jews do not like . it seems it will go on for centuries more.

and BTW I belong to a nation that was also allegedly planned to be exterminated by Nazis

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby joachim neander » 8 years 9 months ago (Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:08 pm)

trevor,

you are touching a serious problem, the so-called "uniqueness" of the Holocaust. I can assure you: today hardly a scholar of history - Jewish or non-Jewish - clings to this notion. Historians put the Holocaust into the greater framework of genocides, which are accompanying the history of mankind from the very beginning. Most probably the biggest genocide up to now was the extermination of the Neanderthals by Homo sapiens some ten thousand years ago. And Darfur will not have been the last genocide perpetrated by man.

There exist, as you rightfully remarked, different levels of attention in politics and public opinion given to different genocides. But such is life. Tadeusz Borowski, in his short story U nas w Auschwitz'u, lets his protagonist muse about the hundreds of thousands that died for the construction of the pyramids or the building of the Roman empire (and I would add: the people exterminated by Egypt and Rome). "If the Germans will win, we will be forgotten, writers and historians will praise the grandeur of the Third Reich, its autobahns and representative buildings," and they will tell about the suffering of those who built this Reich, but not of our plight.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby ovd1965 » 8 years 9 months ago (Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:06 pm)

"muse about the hundreds of thousands that died for the construction of the pyramids..."

but today it is obviously not a kind of "blasphemy" to have "another" view about the question who built the pyramids
there is a these , that it is non done by slaves.



"I can assure you: today hardly a scholar of history - Jewish or non-Jewish - clings to this notion. "

Really ? but SHOWING this would require some "ZIVILCOURAGE" ! and obviously the salary, the LEHRSTUHL and the political correct attitide is more important for our scholars !

What was the result of Prof. Noltes (carefully) words ? For a lot of political correctness clowns is he a Nazis! for a lot of people he is at least dubious.

one shameful example : long after the critical attack to the REEMSTMA stuff from polish (!) and hungarian (!) historians , there
was a quote from an german "historian" in an german magazin (perhaps Stern or Spiegel, I dont remember) :

we , german historians have also known all these errors , fakes and false things , but nobody would risk his career !

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Cloud » 8 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:03 am)

joachim neander wrote:trevor,

you are touching a serious problem, the so-called "uniqueness" of the Holocaust. I can assure you: today hardly a scholar of history - Jewish or non-Jewish - clings to this notion. Historians put the Holocaust into the greater framework of genocides, which are accompanying the history of mankind from the very beginning. Most probably the biggest genocide up to now was the extermination of the Neanderthals by Homo sapiens some ten thousand years ago. And Darfur will not have been the last genocide perpetrated by man.


Your bullshit certainly is much easier to spot in this thread than in the others (where you constantly make various claims without citing a single text or document in support [or instead refer to your "notes"]). Based on this, I encourage the other members of the forum to be much more vigilant to prevent the wool from being pulled over their eyes.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby SevenUp » 8 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:05 am)

trevor wrote:
There are only maybe 5 Jews in this whole planet who do not agree with it and they feel ashamed. One of them is an admirable person Norman Finkelstein who lost his job over it. He believes in the existence of gas chambers. I have no problem with it. This person has ETHICS and is not a coward.



Even with that magnanimous praise you fail to do Finklestein justice, the man is a walking MIRACLE ......

Norman Finkelstein, in the video ....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNQSV3BBtZ4

"My father was in Auschwitz"
"My mother was in Majdanek"
"Every single member of my family, on my father's side and on my mother's side, was exterminated."

The miracle? Finklestein was born in 1953 !

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:15 am)

joachim neander wrote:trevor,
you are touching a serious problem, the so-called "uniqueness" of the Holocaust. I can assure you: today hardly a scholar of history - Jewish or non-Jewish - clings to this notion.

Really? Not Lipstadt? Nor Dershowitz? Academics who feel able to pronounce, even if their speciality isn't history. (But neither is Butz's or Hilberg's.) What about van Pelt? But anyway, it's not so much the scholars who are the problem, but the Industry. Are you seriously suggesting that the Holocaust (R) is promoted objectively and in context in all the school programmes and the "Museums of Tolerance"? If the scholars really don't go along with this, why don't they say so? Are they intimidated? If they are, you are admitting to a very serious issue indeed. Not only are Revisionists pilloried and jailed, but conventional historians are afraid to speak, too.

And who are these non-Jewish historians of the Holocaust?

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby trevor » 8 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 09, 2011 11:28 am)

WIKI
"His mother, Maryla Husyt Finkelstein, grew up in Warsaw, Poland, survived the Warsaw Ghetto, the Majdanek concentration camp, and two slave labor camps. Her first husband died in the war. She considered the day of her liberation as the most horrible day of her life, as she realized that she was alone with her parents and siblings gone. Norman's father, Zacharias Finkelstein, was a survivor of both the Warsaw Ghetto and the Auschwitz concentration camp"

Finkelstein´s parents died in 1995.

He did not claim his parents died during the WWII. He claimed the family members of his mother and father did.

Give credit where credit is due.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Roscov » 8 years 9 months ago (Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:54 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:
joachim neander wrote:trevor,
you are touching a serious problem, the so-called "uniqueness" of the Holocaust. I can assure you: today hardly a scholar of history - Jewish or non-Jewish - clings to this notion.

Really? Not Lipstadt? Nor Dershowitz? Academics who feel able to pronounce, even if their speciality isn't history. (But neither is Butz's or Hilberg's.) What about van Pelt? But anyway, it's not so much the scholars who are the problem, but the Industry. Are you seriously suggesting that the Holocaust (R) is promoted objectively and in context in all the school programmes and the "Museums of Tolerance"? If the scholars really don't go along with this, why don't they say so? Are they intimidated? If they are, you are admitting to a very serious issue indeed. Not only are Revisionists pilloried and jailed, but conventional historians are afraid to speak, too.

And who are these non-Jewish historians of the Holocaust?


I have a reference document here regarding the holocaust from my daughter's school. I will have to type it in its entirety if people want to read it as we don't have a scanner.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:57 am)

trevor wrote:WIKI
Finkelstein´s parents died in 1995.


Thanks, Trevor. I was going to make a similar comment, but I decided the post you were commenting on was so pointlessly obtuse that it might be preferable to just ignore it. :)

I can live with Finkelstein not publicly questioning the Holocaust. He has, in his book, shown some empathy with the Revisionist position, but imagine the enormity of that next step for him. He is Jewish and an academic. He would be subject to total pariah status, and probable physical attack, rather than just the levels of vitriol he faces now. He cannot be unaware of what happened to David Cole. But, highly important, he is listened to now and had a major impact on many, many people. (I am one of those he first alerted to the Industry.) And on a personal level, if he believes his family were "exterminated in the Holocaust" there are enormous emotional issues involved.

He who is not for us is not necessarily against us. Finkelstein is a courageous man and deserves our respect.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 3:59 am)

Roscov wrote:
I have a reference document here regarding the holocaust from my daughter's school. I will have to type it in its entirety if people want to read it as we don't have a scanner.


Thanks for the offer, but without a scanner it's not worth your trouble. There are plenty of examples on the Web that people will be familiar with.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Roscov » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:48 am)

Kingfisher wrote:
Roscov wrote:
I have a reference document here regarding the holocaust from my daughter's school. I will have to type it in its entirety if people want to read it as we don't have a scanner.


Thanks for the offer, but without a scanner it's not worth your trouble. There are plenty of examples on the Web that people will be familiar with.


I could try and photograph it instead; it's an interesting document as far as modern English Secondary holocaust education goes.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:34 pm)

Roscov wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
Roscov wrote:
I have a reference document here regarding the holocaust from my daughter's school. I will have to type it in its entirety if people want to read it as we don't have a scanner.


Thanks for the offer, but without a scanner it's not worth your trouble. There are plenty of examples on the Web that people will be familiar with.


I could try and photograph it instead; it's an interesting document as far as modern English Secondary holocaust education goes.


I thought of that after I posted. It would be a lot less trouble for you than typing it out and it would probably work.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Hannover » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:38 pm)

Roscov wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:
joachim neander wrote:trevor,
you are touching a serious problem, the so-called "uniqueness" of the Holocaust. I can assure you: today hardly a scholar of history - Jewish or non-Jewish - clings to this notion.

Really? Not Lipstadt? Nor Dershowitz? Academics who feel able to pronounce, even if their speciality isn't history. (But neither is Butz's or Hilberg's.) What about van Pelt? But anyway, it's not so much the scholars who are the problem, but the Industry. Are you seriously suggesting that the Holocaust (R) is promoted objectively and in context in all the school programmes and the "Museums of Tolerance"? If the scholars really don't go along with this, why don't they say so? Are they intimidated? If they are, you are admitting to a very serious issue indeed. Not only are Revisionists pilloried and jailed, but conventional historians are afraid to speak, too.

And who are these non-Jewish historians of the Holocaust?


I have a reference document here regarding the holocaust from my daughter's school. I will have to type it in its entirety if people want to read it as we don't have a scanner.

And why should we believe what you type? Without seeing the actual original document anything can be claimed and 'interpreted' to mean whatever someone wishes.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Jewish victims

Postby Roscov » 8 years 9 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:06 pm)

I have a reference document here regarding the holocaust from my daughter's school. I will have to type it in its entirety if people want to read it as we don't have a scanner.
And why should we believe what you type? Without seeing the actual original document anything can be claimed and 'interpreted' to mean whatever someone wishes.

- Hannover


Yes I thought that too; and furthermore, since the name of the school doesn't appear anywhere on it, scanning or photographing it doesn't prove its authenticity either. Kind of ironic really, considering the subject matter. :?


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