Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

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trevor
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Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby trevor » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 07, 2011 4:48 pm)

Auschwitz -The extermination procedure in the gas chambers

“After they were killed, Sonderkommando prisoners dragged the corpses out of the gas chambers. They cut off the women’s hair and removed all metal dental work and jewelry. Then they burned the corpses in pits, on pyres, or in the crematorium furnaces. (Until September 1942, some of the corpses were buried in mass graves; these corpses were burned from September to November 1942.)
Bones that did not burn completely were ground to powder with pestles and then dumped, along with the ashes, in the rivers Soła and Vistula and in nearby ponds, or strewn in the fields as fertilizer, or used as landfill on uneven ground and in marshes.”

http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/h/index.php? ... mitstart=4


So in Auschwitz they ground to powder bones and teeth from about one million people by PESTLES ! Is that a stupid joke?

Russians came to the Auschwitz camp two months after the alleged gassing had stopped. All physical evidence of gassings -bodies, remains of bodies, bones and teeth, parts of bones and teeth and tons of ashes would have been there to document. And they would be extremely keen to document it and use it to turn away attention from their own crimes. Somehow they “forgot” to ask the perpetrators where it all is and to document it. The Nuremberg trial did not ask for any physical evidence of 4 000 000 gassed (the number presented at Nuremberg trial).

The remains of bones and teeth from contemporary figures- 1000000 gassed- would still be there today.

Read the thread: Bodies do not burn into ashes- photos
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6394
Last edited by trevor on Sun Feb 13, 2011 8:24 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:42 pm)

trevor wrote:So in Auschwitz they ground to powder bones and teeth from about one million people by PESTLES ! Is that a stupid joke?

High technology compared with Treblinka: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/reinhard.html
... [T]he "Ashes Gang," had to sweep up the ashes, place the remaining bones on thin metal sheets, pound them with round wooden dowels, and then shake them through a narrow-mesh metal sieve; whatever remained in the sieve was crushed once more. Bones not burnt and which could not easily be split were again thrown into the fire.

You couldn't make it up. Could you?

But then they also still think diesel engines can poison people:
A diesel engine producing poisonous carbon monoxide, as well as a generator which supplied the whole camp with electricity, were housed in a built-on room.

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby The Warden » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 07, 2011 8:38 pm)

This phenomenon has been one of my favorites throughout discussions of the missing remains.

You ask them where the remains are.
They tell you they were gassed, then buried, then dug up, then burned on open pyres, then cremated, then ground into dust, then used as fertilizer or dumped in rivers.

Then, when you ask them how this miracle of mass murder was committed "in secret", they tell you nothing.

Then, when asked how the food and water supplies weren't tainted by the human remains of MILLIONS, they say nothing.
Especially Auschwitz, since the water table was so shallow.

Then, when you ask them about these squads of grinders, no one has a name.
In turn, you ask them where these grinders were at the time of liberation, they say they were taken with them.
Really? The fleeing Germans took the pestles with them? No kidding?

Then, you ask them how the rivers which have natural pooling spots along the coasts were never photographed while being full of MILLIONS of pounds of ash.

Then, it usually comes down to the usual nonsense. Once they can't provide physical evidence, they claim it was destroyed by the "evil Nazis".

It's laughable.

I remember someone passing on a picture of ash pools, but when I asked for more information, they never responded.
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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby Ilikerealhistory » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 07, 2011 10:12 pm)

I think the question of what happened to the ashes and other evidence can be answered by one of Einsteins unknown theories that states: "The physics involved with conservation of mass and conservation of energy are not applicable to victims of the Holocaust(R) as long as large sums of money can be extracted from the German people for something they didn't do."

The reason why no evidence has ever been found is that SS guards actually fed the remains of jews to their invisible pet Pterosaurs. The Pterosaurs flew away when they saw the Soviets coming and are hiding under the North Pole waiting for the Nazis to return to power. The fact that nobody has ever seen an invisible Pterosaur is proof that they really exist, just like no human remains is proof that the Germans had all the evidence destroyed.

(In reference to the jews and others who continue to perpetuate this nonsense) If someone doesn't know or understand basic physics, they don't deserve to be debated, they deserve sarcasm.

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby Eric Hunt » 8 years 11 months ago (Sat Jan 08, 2011 12:13 pm)

Wait till you hear what the "pestles" were made out of -

I know of one or two sonderkomandos who claim these "pestles" were two large logs they would physically smash together.
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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby joachim neander » 8 years 11 months ago (Sat Jan 08, 2011 2:38 pm)

You are overestimating the masses of ashes. A burnt body gives about 4 kg of bone ashes. 1.2 million Auschwitz dead would make 5,000 tons of ashes, for a period of operating of nearly 5 years makes roughly 1,000 tons per year. By a specific weight of 2, these are 500 cubic meters or 20 truckloads per year. Of course this is is a rough and average calculation, but it shows the magnitude. Not taken into account are those who died in sub-camps and were buried there.

BTW: chemists to the front! Ground fresh bones (Knochenmehl in German) are a good fertilizer because of their phosphorous content, but bone ash should be nearly phosphorous-free, as the phosphorous content of the bones burns away, IIRC (it's a long time that I attended undergraduate courses in chemistry). Has anyone on the forum precise information?

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby trevor » 8 years 11 months ago (Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:36 pm)

Bodies do not burn into ashes. Have a look how many remains are left after burning:
" While on an inspection tour of the newly liberated Ohrdruf concentration camp, General Dwight Eisenhower and a party of high ranking U.S. Army officers, including Generals Bradley, Patton, and Eddy, view the charred remains of prisoners that were burned upon a section of railroad track during the evacuation of the camp."
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... nhower.jpg

Auschwitz
“By June 1943 all four crematoria were operational. Most of the victims were killed during the period afterwards.[21]”

According to the official story the gassings stopped in November 44.

Just in the summer of 1944, about 400 000 Hungarians are claimed to have been gassed.

In January 45, Russians arrived to Auschwitz.

Millions of pieces of bones and teeth and tons of ashes would be somewhere when Russians arrived and they would be somewhere even today.

Oh they would spread 5000 tons of ashes full of teeth and bones from 1 million inmates in the fields? I though the final solution was an event of the utmost secrecy.

And even if they did, it would be there when Russians arrived and it would be there today.
Last edited by trevor on Sat Jan 08, 2011 6:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby ovd1965 » 8 years 11 months ago (Sat Jan 08, 2011 5:51 pm)

This is an typical example of "desk scholarship".

On first view it seems to be ok. But have a closer look :

We are hearing about an "average statistic" , the full operation time in relation to number of victims.

a nice statistical trick ; " the average depth of the creek is 0,60 m , but the cow is drowned"

during two month in 1943 there were 438,000 deportees from hungary.
if we calculate that (Dr. Mengele) selected 2/3 to be gassed than we have 289,000 bodies to be burnt.

289,000 bodies x 4 kg human ash/remains = 1156 tons human ash

lets assume that half burnt with coke by Mr.Vrba and half burnt with wood in the famous open pits

145,000 x 23 kg coke x 9 % ash content of coke = 300 tons of ash
145,000 x 50 kg wood x1.5 % content of ash = 108 tons of ash

summa 1600 tons of ash

(Mr. Neander : your statement about volume / weight ratio of "ash" should be discussed :
"bone ash" : 1100 kg/m3 ; wood ash 450 kg/m3 )

lets solve the transportation problem :
1600 tons / 60 extermination-days = 27 tons/day

27 tons/ day divided with 3,5 tons / truck (lets take the standard Wehrmacht Opel or
Ford truck)

appr. 8 Truck per day for ash transport

( did not mention the needed labor to handle the 27 tons of ash !)

but thats not all ! between the ash dumping tours , we have to transport coke and wood !

145,000 bodies x 23 kg coke 3,335 tons
145,000 bodies x 50 kg wood 7,250 tons
summa 10,500 tons

10,500 tons / 60 days = 175 tons per day 175 tons/d divided with 3,5 tons/truck = 50 truck per day

so we have to handle 58 truckloads per day ...... and handle 220 tons material per day .......

note : i think the coke estimate of 23 kg / body is acceptable , because Pressacs 4 kg are ridiculous.
50 kg wood is the same average heat content as 23 kg coke, and at least a minimum estimate.

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby The Warden » 8 years 11 months ago (Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:55 am)

joachim neander wrote:You are overestimating the masses of ashes. A burnt body gives about 4 kg of bone ashes. 1.2 million Auschwitz dead would make 5,000 tons of ashes, for a period of operating of nearly 5 years makes roughly 1,000 tons per year. By a specific weight of 2, these are 500 cubic meters or 20 truckloads per year. Of course this is is a rough and average calculation, but it shows the magnitude. Not taken into account are those who died in sub-camps and were buried there.

BTW: chemists to the front! Ground fresh bones (Knochenmehl in German) are a good fertilizer because of their phosphorous content, but bone ash should be nearly phosphorous-free, as the phosphorous content of the bones burns away, IIRC (it's a long time that I attended undergraduate courses in chemistry). Has anyone on the forum precise information?


This post seems to imply the Germans created an even amount of ash every day throughout the entire war.
We know this to be false. We know the crematoria were being shut down for maintenance. Also, the capacities will always be in question, and the amount of crematorium was not consistent throughout the war.

Plus, the effects of disease were not spread out evenly. The amount of dead was never consistent.

This post, Mr. Neander, which makes it sound as if the Germans had a calendar, and on the first of the month, they decided to take a single truckload to the river (in secret, mind you) to dump the same amount of ash each time is ludicrous.

If we're to believe some of the claims of the amounts of deaths and bodies being burnt at one time, there would be a convoy of ash trucks.
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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby joachim neander » 8 years 11 months ago (Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:18 pm)

One reads everywhere, also in this thread, that the Germans used the burnt bones of their victims as fertilizer.
Whereas ground fresh bones (Knochenmehl in German) are a good fertilizer because of their phosphorous content, bone ash should be nearly phosphorous-free, as the phosphorous content of the bones burns away, if I remember correctly from my undergraduate chemistry lessons.
Let me, therefore, repeat my question:
Has anyone on the forum precise information about the chemical process occurring in bone-burning in crematoria?

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:40 pm)

So much for the alleged German magical mere-minutes cremations.
- Hannover

Ashes to Ashes: The Cremation Process Explained
http://www.everlifememorials.com/v/urns ... rocess.htm
Cremation Urns
Cremation, as an option for the final disposition of a deceased person, has been around for thousands of years. While the beginnings of cremation involved somewhat primitive methods for achieving the end result, modern times and technology have given rise to a more standardized version of the process. Companies throughout the world manufacture human size cremators that reduce the amount of time necessary to complete the cremation to less than 2 hours. Here is how the cremation process works.

Preparation of the Body
Before a deceased person is cremated, a funeral director must first obtain authorization to cremate the decedent from the closest surviving family members(s). This is usually in the form of a document provided by the funeral home and signed by the family.

Next, the funeral director must remove any items not wished to be cremated along with the body such as jewelry. If the deceased had a pacemaker or other type of medical device, it too will need to be removed to prevent an explosion from occurring during the cremation process. It is not necessary to embalm a body before the cremation unless the family wishes to have a public viewing of the body during a memorial service.

The body is then placed in a cremation casket, usually made of wood, or more often a cremation container which is basically a large cardboard box with a plywood bottom for sturdiness. These types of containers will burn fairly well during the cremation cycle.

The funeral director or crematory operator will place an identification tag in the cremation container with the body to properly identify the cremated remains once returned to the funeral home. This is a very important step as it insures the family does not end up with the wrong set of cremated ashes.

The Cremation
The cremation container/casket containing the body is then placed in the cremation chamber from the end. The cremation chamber, sometimes referred to as the retort, is lined with fire resistant bricks on the walls and ceiling. The floor is made from a special masonry compound formulated specifically to withstand extremely high temperatures. Once the body is in, the chamber door, which is about a half a foot thick, is closed either by hand or in some cases a switch as many of the newer models have automated doors.

The crematory operator then starts the machine which normally goes through a warm up cycle before the main burning begins. After the machine is warmed up, the main burner ignites starting the process of incinerating the body. Temperatures within the chamber often reach the 1800°F - 2000°F range. The burners within a cremator are fueled by either natural gas or propane.

It generally takes about 1-1/2 to 2 hours for a body to be completely reduced to just the bone fragments by cremation. Some cremation furnaces, especially the older ones, may require a little more time.

Processing the Ashes
After the entire incinerating process is complete, a cool down period of 30 minutes to an hour is required before the bone fragments can be handled for further processing. When the time finally arrives, the cremated remains or bone fragments are removed from the cremation chamber and placed on a table work area. It is here that the crematory operator removes all metal debris such as screws, nails, surgical pins or titanium limbs/joints with a magnet and by hand.

The remaining bone fragments are then placed in a special processor which is kind of like a cross between a disposal unit from under a kitchen sink and a blender. This processor pulverizes the bone fragments to a fine powder called cremains or more commonly referred to as the ashes.

The ashes are then placed in a plastic bag within a temporary cremation container or an urn provided one is furnished to the crematory. The ashes are then returned to the family.

and:
The Cremation Process7
http://hubpages.com/hub/cremation
What is Cremation?
Cremation is the practice of disposing of a human corpse by burning which often takes place in a crematorium or crematory. Along with burial, cremation is an increasingly popular alternative for the final disposition of the dead.

Cremation furnace
The place where the cremation takes place is called a 'crematorium'. A crematorium consists of one or more furnaces called 'cremators' (often mistakenly called 'ovens') and facilities for handling of the ashes. A cremator is an industrial furnace capable of reaching high temperatures up to approximately 870-980 °C (1600-1800 °F) with special modifications to ensure the efficient disintegration of the corpse. One of these modifications is the aiming of the flames at the torso, where a majority of the body's mass rests.

A crematorium may be part of chapel or a funeral home, or it may be part of an independent facility or a service offered by a cemetery.

The body burns in the cremator.The cremators use a number of different fuel sources, such as natural or propane gas. Prior to this coal or coke was often used by crematoriums up to the early 1960s. Modern cremators include control systems which monitor the conditions inside the furnace while a cremation is taking place. The operator can make adjustments to provide for more efficient burning, as well as ensuring that minimal environmental pollution occurs.

A cremation furnace is not designed to cremate more than one body at a time, and to do so is illegal in many nations including the USA.

The chamber where the body is placed is called the retort. It is lined with special refractory bricks to help retain the heat. These bricks require replacement after about five years because of continual expansion and contraction due to temperature cycling.

Modern cremators are computer-controlled with safety devices and interlocks to ensure legal and safe use, e.g., the door cannot be opened until the cremator has reached the correct operating temperature. The coffin is inserted (charged) into the retort as quickly as possible to avoid heat loss from the top-opening door. The coffin may be on a motorised trolley (known as a charger) which can insert the coffin at speed, or one that can tilt to tip the coffin down a slope into the cremator.

Crematoriums will allow relatives to view the charging and sometimes this is done for religious reasons, e.g., Hindus. However, notwithstanding the respect with which the deceased is treated, this is fundamentally an industrial process, and not recommended for the sensitive or faint-of-heart.

Cremators are a standard size. Large cities will have access to an oversize cremator that can handle deceased in the 200+ kg range. However, the morbidly obese cannot always be accommodated and must be buried instead. Most large crematoriums have a small cremator installed for the disposal of fetal remains, babies and infants.

Body Container
A body to be cremated is first placed in a container for cremation, which can be a simple corrugated cardboard box or a wooden casket. Most casket manufacturers provide a line of caskets specially built for cremation. Another option is a cardboard box that fits inside a wooden shell designed to look like a traditional casket. After the funeral service the interior box is removed from the shell before cremation, permitting the shell to be reused.

Funeral homes may also offer rental caskets, which are traditional caskets used only for the duration of the services, after which the body is transferred to another container for cremation. Rental caskets are sometimes designed with removable beds and liners, replaced after each use.

In Australia, the deceased is cremated in a coffin supplied by the undertaker. Reusable or cardboard coffins are unknown. If cost is an issue, a plain, particle-board coffin known in the trade as a 'chippie' will be offered. Handles (if fitted) are plastic and approved for use in a cremator. Coffins vary from unfinished particle board (covered with a velvet pall if there is a service) to solid timber. Most are veneered particle board.

Cremations can be 'delivery only' with no preceding chapel service at the crematorium (although a church service may have been held) or preceded by a service in one of the crematorium chapels. Delivery-only allows crematoriums to schedule cremations to make best use of the cremators, perhaps by holding the body overnight in a refrigerator. As a result a lower fee is applicable. Delivery-only may be referred to by industry jargon such as 'west chapel service'.

Burning and Ashes Collection
The box containing the body is placed in the retort and incinerated at a temperature of 760 to 1150 °C (1400 to 2100 °F). During the cremation process, a large part of the body (especially the organs) and other soft tissue is vaporized and oxidized due to the heat, and the gases are discharged through the exhaust system. The entire process usually takes about two hours.

All that remains after cremation are dry bone fragments (mostly calcium phosphates and minor minerals). These representing roughly 3.5% of the body's original mass (2.5% in children, but these figures vary greatly due to body composition). Because the weight of dry bone fragments are so closely connected to skeletal mass, their weight varies greatly from person to person, with the mean weight in a Florida, U.S. sample being 5.3 lbs (approx. 2.4 kg) for adults (range 2 to 8 lbs/900 g to 3.6 kg). This is distributed bimodally, with the mean being 6 lbs (2.7 kg) for men (range 4 to 8 lbs/1.8 kg to 3.6 kg) and 4 lbs (1.8 kg) for women (range 2 to 6 lbs/900 g to 2.7 kg). In this sample, generally all adult cremated remains over 6 lb (2.7 kg) were from males, and those under 4 lb (1.8 kg) were from females.

Jewelry, such as wristwatches and rings, is ordinarily removed and returned to the family. The only non-natural item required to be removed is a pacemaker, as a pacemaker could explode and damage the cremator. In the United Kingdom, and possibly other countries, the undertaker is required to remove pacemakers prior to delivering the body to the crematorium, and sign a declaration stating that any pacemaker has been removed.

After the incineration is completed, the bone fragments are swept out of the retort, and the operator uses a pulverizer called a cremulator[3] (also known informally as a crembola[citation needed]) to process them into what are known as cremains which exhibit the appearance of grains of sand (note that this varies with the efficiency of the cremulator used, and recognizable chips of very dry bone may be seen in some final product cremated remains, depending on origin and facility). Cremulators usually use some kind of rotating or grinding mechanism to powder the bones, such as the heavy metal bearings on older models.

In Japan and Taiwan, the bones are not pulverized unless requested beforehand, and are collected by the family.

This is one of the reasons cremated remains are called ashes although a technical term sometimes used is "cremains" (a portmanteau of "cremation" and "remains"). The ashes are placed in a container, which can be anything from a simple cardboard box to a fancy urn. An unavoidable consequence of cremation is that a tiny residue of bodily remains is left in the chamber after cremation and mixes with subsequent cremations.

Not all that remains is bone. There will be melted metal lumps from missed jewellery, casket furniture, and dental fillings, and surgical implants such as hip replacements. Large items such as titanium hip replacements are usually removed before grinding, as they may damage the grinder. After grinding, smaller bits of metal are sieved out and later interred in common, consecrated ground in a remote area of the cemetery.
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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby Wroclaw » 8 years 11 months ago (Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:42 pm)

Are you contending that commercial funeral homes use the same type of crematoria, Hannover?

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:49 pm)

No, they use state-of-the-art crematorium, which does not speak well for the impossible and embarrassing claims made by Jewish Supremacists about 1940s German technology.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby The Warden » 8 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:34 am)

So just to clarify...

Once the body is cremated, the 4 or 6 pounds (est.) of remains (after the 1 1/2 to 2 hours of burning) consists of bone fragments only?

And...

The rest goes up the chimney after being vaporized, but no smoke is formed, correct?
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Re: Crushing millions of bones and teeth by pestles

Postby ovd1965 » 8 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:26 am)

Yes , most comes from bones and is : Tricalciumphosphat ( a feritilizer)


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