Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revisionism

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Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revisionism

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 18, 2011 4:42 pm)

The eminent French politician, Simone Veil, is a Holocaust Survivor. She has posted Pages of Testimony on Yad Vashem for her mother, father and brother.

According to Wikipedia, Mme Veil was deported with her mother and one sister to Auschwitz, and later transferred to Belsen on a "Death March". Her mother died of typhus in Belsen, in the chaotic conditions preceding the handover of the camp. http://tinyurl.com/4hqmuch Since there is no Page of Testimony for the sister we assume she also survived, and this is confirmed by French Wikipedia. Her father and brother were deported separately from the Drancy holding camp to "an unknown destination", to which Mme Veil has added on her father's page "no doubt Riga or Kaunas". This comes as something of a surprise since Mme Veil appears not to have heard that all the Jews from France were sent to be gassed at Auschwitz. (French Wikipedia gives the convoy number, and the article on the convoy alleges that its members were sent to an extermination camp in Kaunas. It then contradicts itself by saying the deportees in this convoy were all men, and had probably been sent to work on fortifications.
http://tinyurl.com/658feqm and http://tinyurl.com/4nyycnx

Wikipedia reports that her other sister was arrested as a member of the Resistance and imprisoned in Ravensbrueck, which she survived. (Her brother is recorded a second time by the Klarsfeld Foundation and her own page for her father, André, occurs a second time under the wrong name Jacob Jacob. http://tinyurl.com/666u376. Yad Vashem admit that names may appear more than once, but we are entitled to wonder whether duplicate entries are included in the four million.)

This post is in no way intended as criticism of Mme Veil personally, but her, presumably honest, testimony does not support the conventional narrative. Of six people we have two deported to the East -- fate unknown, one died of typhus in Belsen and three survivors.

I would like to mention that Mme Veil has publicly and strongly opposed both the Fabius-Gayssot Law and Sarkozy's lunatic idea to have every schoolchild in France identify with an "enfant de la Shoah".

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Ray Barren » 8 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:08 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:This post is in no way intended as criticism of Mme Veil personally, but her, presumably honest, testimony does not support the conventional narrative. Of six people we have two deported to the East -- fate unknown, one died of typhus in Belsen and three survivors.


What "conventional" narrative? Wikipedia?

The transport of Simone Veil relatives to baltic states is known among historians. The train had less than 1000 Jews and was only one of its kind in May 1944. OJews who survived this deportation told researchers what happened to them during trip. Not much of a resettlement site.

How does this Testimony of Simone Veil support revisionism? They did not go through any murder camps. Where are the millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944 to those camps?
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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Hannover » 8 years 5 months ago (Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:58 pm)

Ray Barren wrote:The transport of Simone Veil relatives to baltic states is known among historians. The train had less than 1000 Jews and was only one of its kind in May 1944. OJews who survived this deportation told researchers what happened to them during trip. Not much of a resettlement site.

How does this Testimony of Simone Veil support revisionism? They did not go through any murder camps. Where are the millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944 to those camps?

- But according to the standard storyline, the Germans wanted to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.
- Does Ray Barren claim that Simone Veil was never at Auschwitz? Don't True Believers claim that Auschwitz was a 'murder camp'?
- The "millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944" are to be found where Jews are, there is zero proof that they were murdered.
- Does Ray Barren have proof that these "millions" were murdered? If so, I request he tell us in a separate thread. But can he?

Kingfisher:
It then contradicts itself by saying the deportees in this convoy were all men, and had probably been sent to work on fortifications.

- Ah yes, contradictions are yet another big problem within the absurd 'holocaust' mythology; they can't keep their stories straight.

As the expression goes: Tell the truth, it's easier to remember.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:55 am)

Ray Barren wrote:The transport of Simone Veil relatives to baltic states is known among historians. The train had less than 1000 Jews and was only one of its kind in May 1944. OJews who survived this deportation told researchers what happened to them during trip. Not much of a resettlement site.
I knew nothing of this transport previously and still only know what I read on French Wikipedia. According to Fr. W. information about the fate of the prisoners on it only appeared in the 90s, in the form of graffiti on a wall of the castle. I originally wrote based on Mme Veil's P of T dated 1978. I don't know the source of her speculation, as she was deported before the men, but her assumption appears to be that that they were sent East, not that they had been gassed. The later information that they were probably sent East to work on fortifications is perfectly consistent with Revisionist theses; that they were sent all the way to Kaunas to be shot seems illogical. We do not know what happened to them. They may have died of disease, exhaustion or starvation, been shot, escaped and later died, been killed in battle or captured/killed by the Russians. None of these would be inconsistent with Revisionist positions. Only the most bigoted of Revisionist supporters try to pretend the Germans were angels. Scholars most certainly do not. It was a brutal war; what Revisionists oppose is the pretence that it was only brutal on one side.

Ray Barren wrote:How does this Testimony of Simone Veil support revisionism? They did not go through any murder camps. Where are the millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944 to those camps?
Your second question is irrelevant to the topic. On the first, Mme Veil, her mother and her sister were deported to Auschwitz. They were not gassed. They were later transferred to Belsen. We do not know what work they were given, but as upper-class women they were unlikely to be suitable for heavy labour or to have had useful manual skills such as electricians or carpenters. They survived for a year, the mother succumbing to typhus, and the sister nearly dying from it, in the horrendous conditions of Spring 1945 in Belsen. The other sister, a Resistance fighter and a Jew, was imprisoned, not killed. Of six deported: two sent East for labour and not heard of since, one died of typhus in Belsen and three survived. Not exactly supportive of extermination in gas chambers, is it?

(Those with sharp eyesight will have noticed that Mme Veil has recorded her mother's death as in Belsen in 1944, but this can only be a slip on her part as it would not fit in with anything else.)

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby trevor » 8 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:17 am)

I know it is an off topic here but I just want to show that the same can be demonstrated in case of Anne Frank family:
Anne, her mother, father and sister were deported to Auschwitz at the peak of alleged exterminations there. They were not gassed. Her mother died of starvation (or maybe even disease) in late 1944. Anna and her sister died of typhus in Bergen Belsen in 1945. Her father survived. It is a big tragedy that routinely happens in all wars but it is not an organized,intentional extermination.
Last edited by trevor on Thu Jan 20, 2011 2:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Ray Barren » 8 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:27 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:I knew nothing of this transport previously and still only know what I read on French Wikipedia. According to Fr. W. information about the fate of the prisoners on it only appeared in the 90s, in the form of graffiti on a wall of the castle. I originally wrote based on Mme Veil's P of T dated 1978. I don't know the source of her speculation, as she was deported before the men, but her assumption appears to be that that they were sent East, not that they had been gassed. The later information that they were probably sent East to work on fortifications is perfectly consistent with Revisionist theses; that they were sent all the way to Kaunas to be shot seems illogical. We do not know what happened to them. They may have died of disease, exhaustion or starvation, been shot, escaped and later died, been killed in battle or captured/killed by the Russians. None of these would be inconsistent with Revisionist positions. Only the most bigoted of Revisionist supporters try to pretend the Germans were angels. Scholars most certainly do not. It was a brutal war; what Revisionists oppose is the pretence that it was only brutal on one side.


Kingfisher:

Public information on the only French deportation to Baltic states in 1944 were available in 1970s by work of Serge Klarsfeld. Other earlier detail could exist in 1950s and 1960s also for that I cannot say. The deportation received more news in 1990s because of the 50th anniversary. Memorials were held in Baltic states for the French deportation. Flawed wikipedia likely knows of this but not deeper scope. Some revisionists have tried to use this to disprove gassings but without much of a point.

Of 878 French male Jews shipped tin May 1944 most were taken off in Kovno with some more sent to Tallinn. They were worked in different matters and areas, with peat and construction and other sort. Those judged incapable were shot. In retreat the few French Jews still alive were sent to Stutthof and then west. After the war only twenty some survivors of this transport were found alive.

If Revisionists use this transport as proof of resettlement it is awkward and not effective. As male Jews were only in deportation than there was clear need of labor in these sections of Baltics. As you may know, but probably disagree, Jews in these states were already murdered almost completely so they would have to get labor from other areas in Europe. You must question why Kovno would need hundreds of French Jews for work when before the war the city had 35-40000. For something to really support Revisionist positions then you need Jews sent to East from the camps I mentioned that have disappeared since.

On your last point about both sides committing atrocitys, this is where we agree. Where we dont agree is your minimizing of many Revisionists who support the Germans/Nazis as good guys to a small sect. There are many from my experience including at this forum.


Kingfisher wrote:On the first, Mme Veil, her mother and her sister were deported to Auschwitz. They were not gassed. They were later transferred to Belsen. We do not know what work they were given, but as upper-class women they were unlikely to be suitable for heavy labour or to have had useful manual skills such as electricians or carpenters. They survived for a year, the mother succumbing to typhus, and the sister nearly dying from it, in the horrendous conditions of Spring 1945 in Belsen. The other sister, a Resistance fighter and a Jew, was imprisoned, not killed. Of six deported: two sent East for labour and not heard of since, one died of typhus in Belsen and three survived. Not exactly supportive of extermination in gas chambers, is it?


To my knowledge they were all registered. The problem that revisionists still have is the fate of those Jews unregistered who were deported to the murder camps. You can get the Auschwitz Kalendarium to see how the majority of French arrivals in the camp were not registered. On the 71. transport which Veil was on there were 1500 Jews on the train. Of these 165 men and 223 women were registered. That leaves 1100 missing Jews from the one transport.

At the same time of these French deportations there is the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews to the camp. What about the more than 300,000 Hungarian Jews who were not selected for work? It is also clear that conditions in the camps were very deadly by themselves. Half of Veil's family perished and none of them were sent to the gas chamber.
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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Hannover » 8 years 5 months ago (Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:44 pm)

Ray Barren,
You dodged my previous challenges to statement you made. Telling.

Now you say:
Those judged incapable were shot. In retreat the few French Jews still alive were sent to Stutthof and then west. After the war only twenty some survivors of this transport were found alive.

Oh really? Produce the proof for these claims.

and you said:
Jews in these states were already murdered almost completely so they would have to get labor from other areas in Europe. You must question why Kovno would need hundreds of French Jews for work when before the war the city had 35-40000. For something to really support Revisionist positions then you need Jews sent to East from the camps I mentioned that have disappeared since.

Ditto. Produce proof for these claims as well.

Respond or leave the thread as stated in the guidelines you accepted when you registered. No dodging.

The problem with True Believers is that they cannot back-up their claims.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 5 months ago (Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:14 am)

Ray Barren wrote:Public information on the only French deportation to Baltic states in 1944 were available in 1970s by work of Serge Klarsfeld.

That would explain Simone Veil's assumption.
Ray Barren wrote:Of 878 French male Jews shipped tin May 1944 most were taken off in Kovno with some more sent to Tallinn. They were worked in different matters and areas, with peat and construction and other sort. Those judged incapable were shot. In retreat the few French Jews still alive were sent to Stutthof and then west. After the war only twenty some survivors of this transport were found alive.

I haven't seen the evidence, but I'm not one to reject it out of hand. By mid 1944, with the Russians approaching, I would not be surprised if prisoners were shot. There are alternatives though, which I listed in my last post, and included shooting as one of them. I've seen evidence of a French newspaper report of 1944-5 that a group of French Jews had been liberated by the Soviets somewhere in Ukraine or Byellorussia. That only a small number registered as returnees doesn't prove a lot, as registration wasn't compulsory and most deportees from France were not French. In fact I'm curious as to why the Jacob family were deported. Perhaps it was because of the sister's Resistance activity.
Ray Barren wrote:If Revisionists use this transport as proof of resettlement it is awkward and not effective. As male Jews were only in deportation than there was clear need of labor in these sections of Baltics.

I didn't mention settlement, as it clearly was not the case here.
Ray Barren wrote:As you may know, but probably disagree, Jews in these states were already murdered almost completely so they would have to get labor from other areas in Europe. You must question why Kovno would need hundreds of French Jews for work when before the war the city had 35-40000.

I have no opinion one way or the other on this, as I don't have the knowledge. I do know that Jews were hated in the Baltic states because of their perceived (and probably real) support for the Soviet occupation of 1940. Probably further back, as conflicts between Jews and nationalists were common across Eastern Europe. But the Holocaust isn't about local murders, even large-scale ones, by local populace or German military. It's about Auschwitz, the Reinhard camps and planned extermination using gas.
Ray Barren wrote:On your last point about both sides committing atrocitys, this is where we agree. Where we dont agree is your minimizing of many Revisionists who support the Germans/Nazis as good guys to a small sect. There are many from my experience including at this forum.

Revisionist activists (other than Bradley) tend to be people with whom I have little in common beyond our shared scepticism of the Holocaust story. But it is inevitable that something that appears to absolve the Nazis of the main crime they are accused of will attract the White Power mob. It's a circular thing, caused by the taboo. If you convince the world at large that only knuckle-dragging racists are revisionists it tends to discourage people who are not of that persuasion, even if they were allowed to see the arguments, which they are not. But the truth or otherwise of factual assertions is unaffected by anyone's opinions. Revisionist scholarship deals with the history and with the science. Even Berg, a self-avowed Nazi, is objective and professional in his arguments. I see no signs of racism in Mattogno, Rudolf, Graf, Porter, etc. The first Revisionist, Rassinier, was a socialist. David Cole was an American liberal. Bradley is somewhere on the liberal-libertarian spectrum, and absolutely not racist. This site is about open debate. It is only on the forum that you will find the attitudes that you and I both deplore.

I'm a Revisionist insofar as I'm a sceptic, and consider that if someone makes an accusation it is up to them to prove it, not the accused to disprove it. I have seen little convincing evidence of the main accusations: masses of conflicting testimony, most of it from Soviet-controlled sources; not a single gas chamber proved to have existed; absurd stories about breaking up bones with pieces of wood on steel sheets; refusal of proper forensic investigations; quasi-religious promotion by the Holocaust Industry with persecution of heretics, P.R. in the mass media and indoctrination of dogma in schools. To throw people in jail and destroy their careers for examining history and coming to the "wrong" conclusions is Stalinist and despicable. The obvious question is why are they afraid of open debate? And, oft repeated but never adequately answered, why did Churchill (as also de Gaulle and Eisenhower), an ardent Zionist with many Jewish friends and political associates, find the systematic extinction of the Jewish people in gas chambers too insignificant to mention in his six-volume history. This this could go on for some time. I'm not asking you to answer; in fact please don't try. I'm just explaining my position. I don't have an axe to grind; I just want to see pursuit of evidence protected from brutal bullying by vested interests, and the crimes of all parties to the war weighed equally, as also responsibility for starting that war, which I don't attribute to a German desire to conquer the world, or even Europe.

Ray Barren wrote:
Kingfisher wrote:On the first, Mme Veil, her mother and her sister were deported to Auschwitz. They were not gassed. They were later transferred to Belsen. We do not know what work they were given, but as upper-class women they were unlikely to be suitable for heavy labour or to have had useful manual skills such as electricians or carpenters. They survived for a year, the mother succumbing to typhus, and the sister nearly dying from it, in the horrendous conditions of Spring 1945 in Belsen. The other sister, a Resistance fighter and a Jew, was imprisoned, not killed. Of six deported: two sent East for labour and not heard of since, one died of typhus in Belsen and three survived. Not exactly supportive of extermination in gas chambers, is it?


To my knowledge they were all registered. The problem that revisionists still have is the fate of those Jews unregistered who were deported to the murder camps. You can get the Auschwitz Kalendarium to see how the majority of French arrivals in the camp were not registered. On the 71. transport which Veil was on there were 1500 Jews on the train. Of these 165 men and 223 women were registered. That leaves 1100 missing Jews from the one transport.
At the same time of these French deportations there is the deportation of hundreds of thousands of Hungarian Jews to the camp. What about the more than 300,000 Hungarian Jews who were not selected for work? It is also clear that conditions in the camps were very deadly by themselves. Half of Veil's family perished and none of them were sent to the gas chamber.


You'll have to ask the scholars who study that. Butz doubts the Hungarian deportations but Graf disagrees with him. Perhaps the argument that they were shipped for work elsewhere is valid. The world is full of both Polish and Hungarian survivors. I only know that anyone who claims to have a categorical answer to the question has the onus to prove it, and not to demand alternative proofs from others. "They were all gassed but you have to take my word for it" is not an acceptable answer. As for Simone Veil's family, the typhus epidemic and the particular conditions of the end of the war cannot be laid at the door of the Germans. Conditions in the camps seem to have varied a lot with time and place. I read somewhere of a remark by an SS officer that Auschwitz was appalling but Dachau a model camp. We don't know what happened to Mme Veil's father and brother, but I have already listed some possibilities.

But, back to my original post: a family of 6 Jews deported, 1 dead from epidemic, 2 missing after deportation East for labour -- probably dead but maybe captured by the Russians -- and 3 (all women) survived, does not support a genocide by gassing.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Cloud » 8 years 5 months ago (Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:15 am)

Ray Barren's most recent post in this thread (where he responded to Hannover for the 'True Believer' remark [among other points]) was deleted. Why? What rule did he break? It was a thoughtful post that would take time to write.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Moderator3 » 8 years 5 months ago (Fri Jan 21, 2011 2:58 pm)

Cloud:
Ray Barren's most recent post in this thread (where he responded to Hannover for the 'True Believer' remark [among other points]) was deleted. Why? What rule did he break? It was a thoughtful post that would take time to write.

"Thoughtful"? Well perhaps, but he did not post specifics, it was a deflection / a dodge. Read the guidelines. Read what Hannover actually challenges him on.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Moderator3 » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Jan 24, 2011 12:36 pm)

Everyone, stay on topic.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Balsamo » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Jan 24, 2011 1:41 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Ray Barren wrote:The transport of Simone Veil relatives to baltic states is known among historians. The train had less than 1000 Jews and was only one of its kind in May 1944. OJews who survived this deportation told researchers what happened to them during trip. Not much of a resettlement site.

How does this Testimony of Simone Veil support revisionism? They did not go through any murder camps. Where are the millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944 to those camps?

- But according to the standard storyline, the Germans wanted to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.
- Does Ray Barren claim that Simone Veil was never at Auschwitz? Don't True Believers claim that Auschwitz was a 'murder camp'?
- The "millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944" are to be found where Jews are, there is zero proof that they were murdered.
- Does Ray Barren have proof that these "millions" were murdered? If so, I request he tell us in a separate thread. But can he?

Kingfisher:
It then contradicts itself by saying the deportees in this convoy were all men, and had probably been sent to work on fortifications.

- Ah yes, contradictions are yet another big problem within the absurd 'holocaust' mythology; they can't keep their stories straight.

As the expression goes: Tell the truth, it's easier to remember.

- Hannover



Hannover
What is this "STANDARD STORYLINE" you keep referring to ?

No one has ever claimed that no Jews never transited through Auschwitz? Or that every single Jew that arrived at Auschwitz was immidiately killed.
As for Simon Veil, the family was split. Simone, her sister and mother took the convoy 71 (Drancy to Birkenau) (13 april 1944). All were registred, so not gazed upon arrival.
The Father and his son were sent to Lituania on the convoy 73 (15 may 1944)...most of the convoy never came back, gazed or not, but yes only constituted by MEN sent to build fortifications.

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Hannover » 8 years 4 months ago (Mon Jan 24, 2011 4:42 pm)

Balsamo says:
Hannover
What is this "STANDARD STORYLINE" you keep referring to ?

No one has ever claimed that no Jews never transited through Auschwitz? Or that every single Jew that arrived at Auschwitz was immidiately killed.
As for Simon Veil, the family was split. Simone, her sister and mother took the convoy 71 (Drancy to Birkenau) (13 april 1944). All were registred, so not gazed upon arrival.
The Father and his son were sent to Lituania on the convoy 73

The standard storyline says that all Jews too young, too old, or sick were "gassed upon arrival". 'Veil', an appropriately adopted name for this Simone, was a child yet was not gassed, her mother was not gassed, her sister was not gassed ... all went to Auschwitz. You have simply outlined an important point, the lies are so thick that Jewish Supremacists are unable to manage them. They forgot this: "Tell the truth, it's easier to remember". The lies are theirs, they created them and now cannot defend them.
Please Balsamo, no false strawman arguments, no one says "that no Jews never transited through Auschwitz". Why do you make up this lie? In lieu of the curiously missing outbound train records, in lieu of proof to the contrary, it's obvious that Jews by the multitudes were "transited through Auschwitz", none were gassed.
One of the seemingly endless problems with your so called 'holocaust is that there are so many 'suvivors' to begin with. The standard storyline also says that the Germans had a policy to "exterminate" all the Jews they could get their hands on, yet Jews have come out of the woodwork claiming to have been to Auschwitz and other absurdly called 'death camps', proving there was no policy of "extermination". You can't have it both ways.
That is just one of your problems when you attempt to defend the easily debunked religious mythology. Now, I challenge you to start a thread on the preposterous 'gas chambers' and let's debate. Or would you prefer to defend the only forensic report presented in court (at Nuremberg), the one presented by the Communists which 'proved' magical 'homicidal steam chambers'.
And while you're at it, how about showing us the claimed 'holocaust mass graves": show us actual excavations.

Here's your chance.

Regards, Hannover
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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Zulu » 8 years 4 months ago (Tue Jan 25, 2011 4:54 am)

Balsamo wrote:
Hannover wrote:
Ray Barren wrote:The transport of Simone Veil relatives to baltic states is known among historians. The train had less than 1000 Jews and was only one of its kind in May 1944. OJews who survived this deportation told researchers what happened to them during trip. Not much of a resettlement site.

How does this Testimony of Simone Veil support revisionism? They did not go through any murder camps. Where are the millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944 to those camps?

- But according to the standard storyline, the Germans wanted to kill every Jew they could get their hands on.
- Does Ray Barren claim that Simone Veil was never at Auschwitz? Don't True Believers claim that Auschwitz was a 'murder camp'?
- The "millions of Jews deported across Europe from late 1941 to mid 1944" are to be found where Jews are, there is zero proof that they were murdered.
- Does Ray Barren have proof that these "millions" were murdered? If so, I request he tell us in a separate thread. But can he?

Kingfisher:
It then contradicts itself by saying the deportees in this convoy were all men, and had probably been sent to work on fortifications.

- Ah yes, contradictions are yet another big problem within the absurd 'holocaust' mythology; they can't keep their stories straight.

As the expression goes: Tell the truth, it's easier to remember.

- Hannover



Hannover
What is this "STANDARD STORYLINE" you keep referring to ?

No one has ever claimed that no Jews never transited through Auschwitz? Or that every single Jew that arrived at Auschwitz was immidiately killed.
As for Simon Veil, the family was split. Simone, her sister and mother took the convoy 71 (Drancy to Birkenau) (13 april 1944). All were registred, so not gazed upon arrival.
The Father and his son were sent to Lituania on the convoy 73 (15 may 1944)...most of the convoy never came back, gazed or not, but yes only constituted by MEN sent to build fortifications.


Simone Veil, née Simone Jacob, was accounted as "gassed" on the official list of Serge Klarsfeld which registers the fate of jews deported from France.
On the study of that list, Pr. Faurisson discovered that Simone Veil, as well as another famous French, Henri Krasuky, were in reality alive after the war.

The Simone Veil story according with herself and Pr. Faurisson report.

Simone Veil as well as her mother and sister were first sent to Drancy (France) and registered there before entering the train to Auschwitz on April 13th 1944.
At that camp they weren't registered on their arrival on April 16th, 1944.
You must read the book presented as being the Death book of all jews deported to the camps from France : "Le mémorial de la déportation des juifs de France" written by Me Serge Klarsfeld, edited by Beate et Serge Klarsfeld in 1978 in Paris.
On the page 519 of that book, you discover in the left column the name of Simone Jacob, born on July, 13th 1927 in Nice. This young girl takes part of a convoy of 1500 jews, men and women, which left Drancy on April 13th 1944.
To know what happened officially to this convoy, you have to report you to the "Notebooks of Auschwitz". Those Notebooks were redacted by the authorities of the State's Museum of Oswiencim, Poland.
For the jews of France, those authorities worked with the CDJC of Paris (Centre de documentation juive contemporaine, whose principal scientific responsible is the Professeur Georges Wellers); This is the same CDJC which assumes - according to Me Klarsfeld - the main responsibility on holding the history of the convoys and the general counting about the deportation of the French jews.
The Notebook # 7, made public on 1964 mentions on the page 88 of the German edition that such convoy arrived at Auschwitz on April 16, 1944.
You can read exactly:
"Transport (Central Office of Reich Security) from Drancy's camp, 1500 jews. After the selection, 165 men were remitted to the camp as inmates, they received the numbers 184.097 - 184.261. The others were gassed.
Hence, the young Simone, her mother and sister were gassed. If you refer to what the historians wrote about the gassing operation, it is possible that Simone Jacob was gassed the same day upon her arrival, that is on April 16, 1944, precisely at Auschwitz-Birkenau.
The right story tells that until July the family worked at the camp, then sent to a sub-camp of the zone.
On January 18, 1945 they left the camp with the SS on a forced march toward Gleiwitz where they stayed 2 days.
From that place they were sent by train to Bergen Belsen until the liberation of that camp on April 15th, 1945.

Simone Veil account in French
http://www.un.org/holocaustremembrance/ ... veil.shtml

Finally, I would like to put here an extract of a letter of Pr. Faurisson about the ITS, International Tracing Service of Bad Arolsen.

"The ITS archives and files (40 kilometers, I guess) are a fantastic treasure for the historians. I have been in touch, directly or indirectly, with the ITS from January 1975 to April 1988 and I can guarantee you that as a revisionist I would enjoy going freely through their files to discover the real fate of people who were supposedly gassed. Remember how I discovered that a certain Simone Jacob, born on July 13, 1927 in Nice (France) and supposed to have been gassed in Auschwitz on April 16, 1944, had in fact survived, married a Mr Veil and became the famous Simone Veil who was at a time President of the European Parliament. I wrote somewhere that she could be named President of the falsely gassed."

Robert Faurisson, July, 12, 2004

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Re: Simone Veil's Pages of Testim. at Yad V support Revision

Postby Kingfisher » 8 years 4 months ago (Wed Jan 26, 2011 9:29 am)

Zulu wrote:Simone Veil as well as her mother and sister were first sent to Drancy (France) and registered there before entering the train to Auschwitz on April 13th 1944.
At that camp they weren't registered on their arrival on April 16th, 1944.

She claims to have a tattooed number: 78651. So she was registered. Maybe later?


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