Camp Tattoo Photos

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joachim neander
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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:40 pm)

CCS, the problem IMO is not the authenticity of the photos as such, but their use, e.g. in propaganda. The Poles took photos of the Danzig Anatomical Institute, they are exactly documented and as such authentic. They were, however, falsely interpreted in propaganda, presenting a scientific institute aa a "human soap factory." This only as an example. I will not dwell on it to avoid being "off-topic."

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby ovd1965 » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:13 pm)

Mr. Neander :

if you look at this site and scroll down , you find a tattoo 19967 .

http://www.cwporter.com/tattoo1.htm

Can you explain please , why we see here a "american" ONE and "american" SEVEN ?

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby Veritas » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 5:52 pm)

joachim neander wrote:Sorry, Veritas, the 6-digit number, written with big characters and covering the whole chest from left to right, is very well legible. There is absolutely no reason to assume a "typo." As I already said, it looks as if the pic is a still from a film. "House of dolls" was screened at least once.

OK, so now we have a "very well legible" number without any reason to assume a typo, just the kind of tattoo that would have qualified for identification purposes. But this one is a fraud, while others which are not as legible and could contain typos and are therefore the kind that would not qualify for identifications, are not.

joachim neander wrote:1) Of course "tattoos can be altered, ... " but not by a prisoner of a concentration camp during their stay in the camp. An ordinary prisoner did not have the means to do that. Maybe one of the higher prisoner functionaries, but these were German Aryan prisoners, who never were tattooed.
2) Your trust in "Germanness" of the organization of Auschwitz is touchingly naive. Go read the Hoess memoirs, you will see that there was nothing like "German Ordnung," there was always disorder, improvisation, a big mess, and poor Hoess had a hard time to keep the camp running.
3) When prisoners escaped, the arrest warrants mentioned, under "besondere Kennzeichen" (special marks): "am linken Unterarm eintaetowierte nr. XXXX" (nr. XXXX tattooed on the left forearm). See, e.g., facsimiles on pages 208 and 209 of "Auschwitz 1940-1945, vol. IV."
4) BTW, the principal reason for tattooing was that the death rate was so high that on some days several hundred corpses had to be disposed of. Because of lack of clothing in the camp, they were quickly stripped by fellow prisoners, and many corpses arrived naked at the morgue. Only after introducing tattooing it was possible to know who had died and who could be crossed out from the personal files.

1) I am assuming that tattooing was common, as in other prisons. You do not need high tech equipment to tattoo, just some ink and a needle. So why wouldn't an ordinary prisoner not have the means? Besides, I was answering trevor who said that tattoos would help "to prevent and find escapees as well." and these escapees would not have been in the camp anymore.
2) Well, most of the people there weren't Germans, were they? But my point was that a messy method wouldn't have been choosen by a commander, German or not, to bring order into chaos. If tattooed numbers could be illegible or contain typos as you yourself said, then it would increase the mess and the confusion rather than lessen it.
3) That sounds interesting and was actually what I was looking for. Though if I understand it correctly, "special marks" could have been any special mark, i.e. any kind of tattoo, birth mark, scar etc. and it does not proof that the numbers were tattooed on orders of the Germans.
4) That and this
Children taken in as prisoners, even those who were born in the camp, received camp numbers and were also tattooed, newborns mostly at other parts of the body than the left forearm, as there was not enough space for tattooing. As I already said, the primary reason for tattooing was to be able to identify a dead body under the "normally" chaotic conditions that prevailed in the camp.

sounds different from the reason you gave earlier:
Tens of thousands of registered Auschwitz prisoners (who therefore were tattooed with their prisoner number) , Jews, Poles and others, were transferred to camps such as Buchenwald and from there to sub-camps for forced labor. As of autumn 1944, you will find bearers of tattoos from Auschwitz nearly everywhere in the CCs in the Reich's interior.

What is it now? Were, at least from a certain point on, all prisoners tattooed or only the labourers that were shifted around? If all prisoners were tattooed, including the children and the following information trevor gave is true:
trevor wrote: "Slightly more than 23.5 thousand children and young people were registered in the camp, out of the total of 400 thousand registered prisoners."
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/h/index.php? ... &Itemid=21

then there should be enough former prisoners around to do a thorough study. And this must begin with doing a scientific assessment that ensures that the alleged tattoos are indeed tattoos. Then it should go on to categorize them and to try to at least roughly determine how many different tattooists (?) were around by distinguishing different styles, take down the testimonies/memories of the tattooed, etc.
Unless this has been done, any further treatment of the topic is superfluous and, since it in fact constitutes allegations against and judgements of the Germans, is even libelous. I rest my case.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby ovd1965 » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:46 pm)

". As I already said, the primary reason for tattooing was to be able to identify a dead body under the "normally" chaotic conditions that prevailed in the camp.under the "normally" chaotic conditions that prevailed in the camp."

thats unbelievable.

they kill hundreds of thousends without any registration ( at least not an ordinary body count)

they work "to death" thousends , because they can grab a new slave any time at the camp , to replace the dead

they shoot , torture , throw into the fire alive, throw apart babies,

but they made this tattooing effort for : the primary reason for tattooing was to be able to identify a dead body

??????????

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:47 am)

ovd1965 wrote:Mr. Neander :

if you look at this site and scroll down , you find a tattoo 19967 .

http://www.cwporter.com/tattoo1.htm

Can you explain please , why we see here a "american" ONE and "american" SEVEN ?

You must read the tattoo correctly, the picture turned 180 degrees.
It reads B 13661. Nothgin problematic.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:55 am)

Veritas asked:
What is it now? Were, at least from a certain point on, all prisoners tattooed or only the labourers that were shifted around?

As I wrote in an earlier post, not all prisoners taken in were tattooed, e.g. Aryan Reichsdeutsch prisoners, Erziehungs-, Polizei- and Depot-Häftlinge were not tattooed. Tattooing began at the end of 1941. From that time, all prisoners that had to be tattooed were tattooed on intake, i.e. when they were registered and obtained their camp number. Older intakes successively were also tattooed, but this was not executed 100 per cent, as nearly everything at Auschwitz.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:56 am)

ovd1965 said:
thats unbelievable.


Maybe for you. History, however, is not a matter of belief.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:59 am)

Veritas is demanding a very high standard in proving:
there should be enough former prisoners around to do a thorough study. And this must begin with doing a scientific assessment that ensures that the alleged tattoos are indeed tattoos. Then it should go on to categorize them and to try to at least roughly determine how many different tattooists (?) were around by distinguishing different styles, take down the testimonies/memories of the tattooed, etc.
Unless this has been done, any further treatment of the topic is superfluous and, since it in fact constitutes allegations against and judgements of the Germans, is even libelous.

May I ask you: Would you apply the same yardstick to the allegations of mass rapes of German women by Red Army soldiers, an allegation and a judgment considered libelous by the Russian people still today?

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby Inquisitive » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 7:45 am)

joachim neander wrote:
May I ask you: Would you apply the same yardstick to the allegations of mass rapes of German women by Red Army soldiers, an allegation and a judgment considered libelous by the Russian people still today?


We shouldn't investigate because Russians find it libelous? :) Your question I believe is more to insight then illuminate.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby joachim neander » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:33 am)

Dear Revisionists - I'll take a holiday break w/o the Web for the weeks to come.
Please don't misinterpret this as "dodging."
Good luck to all of you!

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby trevor » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 8:47 am)

joachim neander wrote:ovd1965 said:
thats unbelievable.


Maybe for you. History, however, is not a matter of belief.


Almost every aspect in the extermination story defies logic and common sense.
Even the planned extermination of Jews would have been done in a logical and common sense way if it had happened. Just like anything else.
I always wonder why when it comes to the Holocaust, people are totally brainwashed into believing that the laws of physics do not apply, the laws of chemistry do not apply, the common laws of investigating criminal acts do not apply, the burden of proof doesn't apply, logic does not apply and a common sense neither. The Holocaust is religion ( based on belief).
Last edited by trevor on Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby ovd1965 » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:19 am)

joachim neander wrote:
ovd1965 wrote:Mr. Neander :

if you look at this site and scroll down , you find a tattoo 19967 .

http://www.cwporter.com/tattoo1.htm

Can you explain please , why we see here a "american" ONE and "american" SEVEN ?

You must read the tattoo correctly, the picture turned 180 degrees.
It reads B 13661. Nothgin problematic.



ok , but the first digit is not a one , at least a "2" and the last digit is still an "american" ONE

seems strange that they did not regulate the "how to tattoo" (place) and HOW TO display the numbers.

look at some of the examples , it makes a lot possibilities to confuse 1 and 7

and 6 and 9 if they not regulate where is the top of the tattoo.......

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby ovd1965 » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:48 am)

joachim neander wrote:Veritas is demanding a very high standard in proving:
there should be enough former prisoners around to do a thorough study. And this must begin with doing a scientific assessment that ensures that the alleged tattoos are indeed tattoos. Then it should go on to categorize them and to try to at least roughly determine how many different tattooists (?) were around by distinguishing different styles, take down the testimonies/memories of the tattooed, etc.
Unless this has been done, any further treatment of the topic is superfluous and, since it in fact constitutes allegations against and judgements of the Germans, is even libelous.

May I ask you: Would you apply the same yardstick to the allegations of mass rapes of German women by Red Army soldiers, an allegation and a judgment considered libelous by the Russian people still today?


It is a characteristic for todays political correctness clownery to have the idea that it could be possible to "apply different yardsticks" in finding the truth.

to have the evil murderer and the "good" murderer.

to have Hitlers victims and Stalins "collateral damages"

Truth is truth. And investigation must be investigation.


an allegation and a judgment considered libelous by the Russian people still today?

the astonishing thing is not that russians find that libelous, that is normal human reaction.

the astonishing thing is that most of germans political correctness mafia find it libelous. (supported by the "OBSERVERS" like Mr. Neander)

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby Cloud » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:22 am)

joachim neander wrote:Maybe for you. History, however, is not a matter of belief.

But the establishment historians have no document or material evidence in support of the gassing claim - all they have are the testimonies. So they believe them, don't they..?
joachim neander wrote:Dear Revisionists - I'll take a holiday break w/o the Web for the weeks to come.
Please don't misinterpret this as "dodging."
Good luck to all of you!

It is.

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Re: Camp Tattoo Photos

Postby trevor » 1 decade 3 weeks ago (Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:30 pm)

Have a nice holiday Joachim


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