more from the 'holocaust' Evidence Dept. / so typical

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Sailor
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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Nov 27, 2003 9:24 pm)

hebden wrote: Forgive us, but we are confused as to what the table showing criminal prosecutions for 'thought crimes' actually represents. We suggest to you that offenses for Holocaust-denial constitute only a small subset of these totals.

You claimed that "In the years from 1994 to 2000 74,000 German citizen were prosecuted for infringement of these laws." These laws presumably being "§130 and §244". Upon reflection, do you wish to stand by your statement?

I noticed that the table has been expanded now to the year 2002 (my copy was an older version and covered the years to 2000) and also shows some more information.

So they are now up to over 94,000 cases in Germany.

A couple of thousand are left wingers, Communists, though.

By far the majority are political right wingers:
»Straftaten mit rechtsextremem Hintergrund«, konkret »Propagandadelikte« und »Volksverhetzung«
(»crimes with right wing extreme background« or »propagandistic derelicts « or »incitement of the people«).

I am not a lawyer and don't understand some of their terminologies too well. But yes, in this case these crimes would be those covered by §130 IMHO.

§244 is in Germany actually the socalled "Offenkundigkeits" (self-evidence) paragraph and is used by the courts to block off any type of Holocaust revisionism.

I don't believe, that all these people were sent to jail though. I assume, that some, maybe most, were only fined.

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Postby Rutger » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:11 am)

Sailor, that table, while sinister-looking, isnt telling us anything at all about the state of Holocaust-denial persecution in Germany.

Sailor wrote:A couple of thousand are left wingers, Communists, though


Looking at that table, 5,966 to be precise. They can be taken off the total, along with 7,546 "foreign extremists", which leaves us with 80,703 right-winger crimes. There is a wide variety of right-wing crimes, however: propaganda, incitement of riots, civil disobedience, racial/gender hate crimes and so on (or even regular crimes done under pretense of right-wing ideology). There is no way, therefore, of telling how many of those crimes were even marginally related to Holocaust denial so your earlier statement
The German StGB (penal code) §130 and §244 cover this. Denying the Holocaust or belittling Nazi crimes will be punished with up to 5 years in the slammer. In the years from 1994 to 2000 74,000 German citizen were prosecuted for infringement of these laws. In the year 2000 alone there were 15,000 cases. On a German n.g. someone was posting that at present 5000 young people are imprisoned for coming in conflict with these paragraphs.

is questionable at best, since it seems to imply that all of them were prosecuted on Holocaust-related charges. Also, "someone posting on a German n.g." is hardly a reliable source of information.

PS As you pointed out, we also do not know how many of those prosecuted for Holocaust denial were actually jailed and how many got off with a "slap on the wrist" (fine, probation, community service).
"...Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain..." /Friedrich Schiller/

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 2:31 am)

We really can't expect the Thought Police to broadcast, to those who otherwise respect the right to free speech, the exact number that they have incarcerated for speaking their viewpoints.
It would seem Rutger is in denial of arrests for questioning the absurd 'holocaust' as alleged. Perhaps a chat with Germar Rudolf would clue Rutger in.

It is duly noted that Rutger is unable to defend his belief in the standard story by debating the specifics of it. Will he be so bold as to start a thread on his specific beliefs and then try support them? It doesn't appear so.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:29 am)

Rutger:

It is one thing for a new person to explore, ask awkward questions, make an honest attempt to find out the score, and debate their viewpoints; but you on the other hand are not in that category.

Stand and debate and stop the petty, intentional attempts to distract from the central points of the threads with silly minutiae. Until that time your distracting posts will be deleted, as was your last.

Don't want to debate in good faith? Then adios.

Thanks, RevForum Moderator
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.

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Re: more from the 'holocaust' Evidence Dept. / so typical

Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 10:25 am)

Hebden wrote:
:? Am I correct in saying that the conveyor belt story was a desperate attempt to validate the elleged 6 million number,at a time when it was up against a wall with dispute,being that you could put a large number of jews on to this constantly moving conveyor belt that would electracute them and lead them right into the creamatory ovens so that you are ready for the next groupand that Simon Weisenthal backed this story up?


A long question deserving a short answer: no. The clue lies in the title 'The Death Factory at Auschwitz'.
:? I am not familiar with this title.Is it the title of a book,like Elie Weisel's malicious work of fanciful fabrication"NIGHT"?

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Re: more from the 'holocaust' Evidence Dept. / so typical

Postby Hebden » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:00 am)

Have a look here:

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/Pravda020245.html

We dispute the claim that "The concept of the "factory of death"...appears to have its beginnings here." Mr. Konstantin Simonov's article on the liberation of Majdanek was issued under the title 'The Death Factory Near Lublin".

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:28 am)

Here are the links to the texts of the German penal codes we talked about (They are in German):

Strafprozeßordnung §244
http://dejure.org/gesetze/StPO/244.html
(Hurry! They will charge access fees after 12/31/2003)


§ 130 Volksverhetzung
http://lawww.de/Library/stgb/130.htm

Rutger may be interested in this.

fge

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Re: more from the 'holocaust' Evidence Dept. / so typical

Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:37 am)

Hebden wrote:
:? Am I correct in saying that the conveyor belt story was a desperate attempt to validate the elleged 6 million number,at a time when it was up against a wall with dispute,being that you could put a large number of jews on to this constantly moving conveyor belt that would electracute them and lead them right into the creamatory ovens so that you are ready for the next groupand that Simon Weisenthal backed this story up?


A long question deserving a short answer: no. The clue lies in the title 'The Death Factory at Auschwitz'.
:? I'm sorry,I posted a reply twice to your statement,and I think both times they were removed.I wonder what happened?

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Re: more from the 'holocaust' Evidence Dept. / so typical

Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:40 am)

code yellow wrote:
Hebden wrote:
:? Am I correct in saying that the conveyor belt story was a desperate attempt to validate the elleged 6 million number,at a time when it was up against a wall with dispute,being that you could put a large number of jews on to this constantly moving conveyor belt that would electracute them and lead them right into the creamatory ovens so that you are ready for the next groupand that Simon Weisenthal backed this story up?


A long question deserving a short answer: no. The clue lies in the title 'The Death Factory at Auschwitz'.
:? I'm sorry,I posted a reply twice to your statement,and I think both times they were removed.I wonder what happened?
:roll: Forget it,I found them.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 1:39 pm)

code yellow:
I'm sorry,I posted a reply twice to your statement,and I think both times they were removed.I wonder what happened?


No Sir, they were not deleted. You are in error.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Nov 28, 2003 5:14 pm)

Moderator wrote:code yellow:
I'm sorry,I posted a reply twice to your statement,and I think both times they were removed.I wonder what happened?


No Sir, they were not deleted. You are in error.

- Moderator
:lol: OOPS! Ok,nevermind.Sorry Mr. Moderator.My fault.


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