Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

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AWoLsco
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Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby AWoLsco » 9 years 1 month ago (Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:48 pm)

I have gone through previous posts on this camp, seldom mentioned or quoted by holocaust doubters. In my opinion the deniers/doubters have made a good case with respect to Auschwitz, Majdanek, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka....yet curiously Chelmno gets left out. Yes, I know it was regarded as a minor camp in the grand scheme of things. But if ever a camp fitted the definition of "death camp in the woods" it is this one.There seemed to be no industry whatsoever associated with it, unlike most of the others.
The moral character of the Germans in this area leaves something to be desired(IMHO). What I am saying is that while most of the holocaust story may be untrue or at least grossly exaggerated, is it not possible that the Germans at least tinkered with the idea of mass destruction and disposal? Maybe a sort of pilot scheme had developed? Maybe in the movement of peoples for forced labour there was a certain percentage that were found to be "inconvenient"?

Many of you have requested bones or ashes or combinations of the two.
What is this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxM9z7KaY3Y&feature=related

How much does anyone know about Alan Heath?
Associated with this video, you will see a couple of videos that recount eye-witness testimony, unfortunately in Polish. Can anyone translate them?
Until I get my answers to those questions, I will have to remain in the category of holocaust sceptic rather than holocaust denier.

And once again, a belated appeal to Poles for eye-witness testimony. There are still people alive who saw what really happened, or their offspring heard their accounts. Many people are out there that hold the key to this whole story /fabrication. For the sake of not just White Christian Europe but Humanity....speak up.....or go to the grave as a grubby little selfish Polish Catholic nationalist....which will be noted by the rest of Europe.
Last edited by AWoLsco on Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 1 month ago (Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:41 am)

Carlo Mattogno has just written a book on Chelmno. It's currently being translated into English. It should be out some time this year. In the meantime, the best available work is by Ingrid Weckert. Sorry I don't have a link, but try googling. I think may be in one of Rudolf's collections.

Mattogno finds the usual mix of a small number of contradictory and poorly-supported witness statements, but almost no material or documentary evidence.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Reinhard » 9 years 1 month ago (Thu Mar 03, 2011 5:03 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:In the meantime, the best available work is by Ingrid Weckert. Sorry I don't have a link, but try googling. I think may be in one of Rudolf's collections.


http://www.vho.org/tr/2003/4/Weckert400-412.html
And if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed, if all records told the same tale, then the lie passed into history and became truth. »Who controls the past controls the future; who controls the present controls the past.«
Orwell 1984

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby proxyserver » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Tue Mar 08, 2011 4:52 pm)

I have gone through previous posts on this camp, seldom mentioned or quoted by holocaust doubters. In my opinion the deniers/doubters have made a good case with respect to Auschwitz, Majdanek, Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka....yet curiously Chelmno gets left out. Yes, I know it was regarded as a minor camp in the grand scheme of things. But if ever a camp fitted the definition of "death camp in the woods" it is this one.There seemed to be no industry whatsoever associated with it, unlike most of the others.
The moral character of the Germans in this area leaves something to be desired(IMHO). What I am saying is that while most of the holocaust story may be untrue or at least grossly exaggerated, is it not possible that the Germans at least tinkered with the idea of mass destruction and disposal? Maybe a sort of pilot scheme had developed? Maybe in the movement of peoples for forced labour there was a certain percentage that were found to be "inconvenient"?

Many of you have requested bones or ashes or combinations of the two.
What is this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxM9z7Ka ... re=related


AWoLsco, yours is quite an intriguing post, but it is difficult to know in what context is the above youtube link, in relation, say, to the following conventional analysis of Chelmo: http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... elmno.html In this regard I am disappointed that more experienced revisionists were not able to deal more seriously with your post in this forum, as it gives the impression that they somehow cannot, as far as disinterested observers are concerned, which is not necessarily true. I would assume that the standard revisionist response would be that Jews and others died of non-homicidal causes in the Chelmo concentration camp, and were duly disposed of in open-air cremations (which the youtube video seems to refer to); perhaps, AWoLosco, you are able to affirm the traditional exterminationist narrative, in relation to what Alan Heath (a colleague of David Irving, apparently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDewZBXg6os and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fexU5QoLivY ) presents in his video.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Hannover » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:47 pm)

Many of you have requested bones or ashes or combinations of the two.
What is this? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxM9z7Ka ... re=related

The video is a joke. All we see is what I guess is supposed to be a few bone chips (human? animal? not bones at all?) and heaps of dirt. All that dirt dug up and yet we do not see the massive amount of human remains that are alleged, and would necessarily be there ... if the tall tale was true. And this is their best shot? Truly laughable.

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd and impossible claims of the 'holocaust' is the message.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Hannover » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Tue Mar 08, 2011 7:53 pm)

The ridiculous 'gas vans' are demolished here:

'phoney gas vans / J. McCarthy & 'holocaust' Hist. Proj.'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=73

Only liars need to produce easily debunked forgeries.

also see these:
http://www.codoh.com/found/fndwagon.html

http://www.codoh.com/found/fndieselgc.html

http://ihr.org/jhr/v05/v05p-15_Berg.html

This is too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby AWoLsco » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Tue Mar 08, 2011 8:49 pm)

I thank you for your response "proxyserver" and echo your disappointment at the lack of response and the rather dismissive comments such as "Carlo's bringing a book out about it." Maybe so, but he's taking a long time to do it. That seems to have been the response to enquiries for the last two years. And I have to say I'm not very impressed.
As to the you-tube link and its context. Even to me, a complete amateur at this stuff...all you've got to do is look at the rest of the videos, on the same web-page, by Alan Heath, to get the picture. I asked him to explain more on this website, but he responded by deleting my post.I was not amused, or impressed.
The other thing I was after was the translation of the two videos of eye-witness testimony accompanying the main one with the bones. OK eye-witness testimony is eye-witness testimony... but even so....maybe it dovetails with other events. We don't know. Unfortunately all the Poles here in England that I knew have returned to Poland.Surely there is someone on the internet that can translate these?
This all seems to be coming to a dead-end....for me... but I will soldier on.

The revisionists have done good work on Auschwitz, Treblinka,Majdanek, Sobibor, Belzec and the formerly legendary Babi Yar.
Now Chelmno.....you said you wanted bones....you got 'em,or something like them.
Just seen Hannover's post.
re animal bones etc. possible. couple of things against. Where they are, and any decent forensic facility would identify them in a trice. On the other hand, Heath didn't respond to a request to post on this forum. If he was telling the truth I would have thought Jewry would have been throwing money at him.
Do all those "graves"contain sand with the little white bits that are supposed to be human bones? Are the white bits evenly distributed? If not, could anyone possibly have the brass neck, the sheer cheek to make a false video and put it out on the internet?
That's why it is important to have some insight as to the character of Alan Heath and...I keep coming back to this....Polish eye-witness testimony.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 4 weeks ago (Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:00 pm)

Kingfisher says
Mattogno finds the usual mix of a small number of contradictory and poorly-supported witness statements


I won't waste too much time on the second part which is the "poorly-supported witness statements", only to say that it is strange that there are so few witnesses from the Reinhardt camps...I know most of you don't bother to ask you why there are not more of them...

But what does the "small number" argument mean ? a couple of Jews were killed there, but not that many ?
I don't get it.
If Chelmno was another mysterious "transit" camp, why would anyone have died there ?

WHY WOULD ANYONE DIE IN A TRANSIT-DELOUSING CAMP ? and (WHY ARE THERE NOT MORE WITNESSES FROM THOSE CAMPS ?)

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby trevor » 9 years 3 weeks ago (Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:22 am)

WHY WOULD ANYONE DIE IN A TRANSIT-DELOUSING CAMP ?


Theresin ghetto for example had a very high mortality rate. Nobody ever suggested there was a gas chamber or it was an extermination camp. People died there of old age, diseases, bad conditions. The same elsewhere.

Evacuation of the Jews was brutal.

It is certainly very revealing that in all the extermination camps where allegedly millions were gassed or shot ,much fewer ( better to say almost no) bodies or remains were found comparing to the non-extermination camps. Nazis were masters of millions of bodies and bullets and other evidence letting completely but selectively disappear from the Earth.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 3 weeks ago (Wed Mar 09, 2011 11:36 am)

As far as i know, Chelmno was not a gheto, but in some view was only a stop to be deloused before being sent elsewhere...it does not answer the question...And of course there is the fact that the station were quite far from the camp...
IIRC, only two survivors claim to be from this camp...not a lot...so where are the others ?

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Cloud » 9 years 3 weeks ago (Wed Mar 09, 2011 2:08 pm)

Balsamo wrote:WHY WOULD ANYONE DIE IN A TRANSIT-DELOUSING CAMP ?

Most likely they were already sick and/or close to death on the way there. So when they arrived and died there, the staff couldn't just leave them lying around for sanitary reasons and hence buried them. And when their remains are later discovered, the exterminationist says, "Ha! Revisisionist, here are the bones you were asking for!"
Balsamo wrote:(WHY ARE THERE NOT MORE WITNESSES FROM THOSE CAMPS ?)

Is there a list of the personnel that worked there? Have they been tracked down and interviewed or cross examined in a court?
AWL wrote:and the rather dismissive comments such as "Carlo's bringing a book out about it." Maybe so, but he's taking a long time to do it. That seems to have been the response to enquiries for the last two years. And I have to say I'm not very impressed.

So would you rather have a hastily written book full of errors, or one that is thoroughly written, meticulously researched and fact checked?
AWL wrote:That's why it is important to have some insight as to the character of Alan Heath

He called the Auschwitz swimming pool a "water retention tank." Now, use Google images and see what it shows you a water retention tank looks like. Compare those with the images for the pool. Is the pool really a "water retention tank?"
AWL wrote:Now Chelmno.....you said you wanted bones....you got 'em,or something like them.

But is the quantity of bones consistent with what would be the remains of tens of thousands of human beings? Is it even half that?

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby AWoLsco » 9 years 3 weeks ago (Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:17 pm)

To Kingfisher
Apologies kingfisher. Maybe 'dismissive' is a bit too strong. Nevertheless, a few months back there was the call to show us bones,bone ash or fragments, real forensic evidence.
I thought someone would bring up the subject of this display of forensic material... but no. Strangely no-one did. Yet here is a major challenge. Hardly discussed....because Carlo's bringing out a book about it. Is this how revisionism, pursuit of truth, operates in the age of the internet? We've got to sit about waiting until someone publishes a book....a notable feature of which will be that it will probably be out of date by the time it's published.

To Cloud,
most of whose observations have been addressed, and thanks for some insight on where Alan Heath may be coming from. I take your point about the bones. At first sight, and the language of the video reinforces this, it looks as though there would be a substantial number of corpses involved.....but some 165,000-200,000 have to be accounted for. On the other hand, what are the concrete structures with ventilation pipes? Well, actually only one ventilation pipe is shown.
Bones and ash were tipped into the river Ner...from bridges, supposedly.The sites of which are known.Why not look there? The Ner is not a very deep or fast-flowing river.There would be only a limited number of spots where a lorry or cart could get to the river bank. Bone isn't very soluble in H2O.
Wouldn't a bit of dredging, water sampling be a worthwhile exercise? Is it not possible to organise an archaeological expedition like the one Richard Krege was involved in at Treblinka? What came of that?....apart from the video on you-tube.

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Re: Chelmno...could the believers have a case?

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 9 years 3 weeks ago (Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:45 am)

From what I understand Heath and Irving are friends, but have very different opinions, but are still friends.

Heath is an Englishman who moved to Poland and converted as some point to Judaism. I got that much from reading Irving's "A Radical's Diary."


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