I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

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Graceee
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I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Graceee » 9 years 8 months ago (Mon Mar 21, 2011 12:06 pm)

So I'm new to this Forum but I find the whole idea of the holocaust interesting.
I've recently returned from Auschwitz concentration camp where I was told about holocaust deniers and I decided to research what they were all about and I found this site. I've been looking through many of the posts on here and I'm sorry if this has already been asked but I want to know about the gas chambers. I would like unbiased evidence for if the Nazis did or didn't use gas chambers. If anyone could help me out with this I would be really grateful because I'm hooked on finding out weather they really did use them :)
Thanks for reading :)

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Re: I'm after some answers..

Postby Bonesy » 9 years 8 months ago (Tue Mar 22, 2011 6:07 am)

Hi Graceee, welcome to codoh.

This 'holocaust™' is a very large, very complex topic. It's better to ask smaller questions than jump straight on to the big ones.

At Auschwitz, was there anything in particular that you would like to know more about?

While you were there, did the tour guides or any other form of information mention the the holocaust denial movement?
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep-seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

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Re: I'm after some answers..

Postby Kageki » 9 years 8 months ago (Tue Mar 22, 2011 9:29 am)

You can start with the sticky on this forum:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

I would also recommend watching the videos David Cole made at Auschwitz if you haven't already. I think it was Cole that broke the story that the gas chambers at Auschwitz are fake or "reconstructed". Did the tour guides mention that? He talks about it in the video.

I'm also interesting in knowing how you came to hear about holocaust denial while visiting Auschwitz? Seems odd to hear that.

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Re: I'm after some answers..

Postby Graceee » 9 years 8 months ago (Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:51 am)

Thanks for the reply's so far ..

while I was at Auschwitz they only mentioned how ridiculous it was that anyone could deny what happened there, but me being curious wanted to see the evidence on both sides that's why I'm here.

And I watched that video a few days ago and that's one of the reasons for me questioning the credibility of the gas chambers.

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Re: I'm after some answers..

Postby Kageki » 9 years 8 months ago (Tue Mar 22, 2011 10:26 pm)

Graceee wrote:Thanks for the reply's so far ..

while I was at Auschwitz they only mentioned how ridiculous it was that anyone could deny what happened there, but me being curious wanted to see the evidence on both sides that's why I'm here.

And I watched that video a few days ago and that's one of the reasons for me questioning the credibility of the gas chambers.


Who is they? The tour guides?

Well you have to understand how it's kind of ridiculous to just come here and ask such a general question. There has been years of discussion on almost every imaginable detail. That sticky is about forensic investigations that have been done, but I understand it's a really dense and technical explanation that is a bit hard to go through.

So you saw Cole's video and it made you curious. Then you can take it from there about any specifics you want to look into. He talks about the lack of blue stains in gas chambers that are alleged to have been homicidal. There is debate about that detail for instance. The gas chambers are also "reconstruction" or "fake". They are not the originals because the Nazis allegedly blew it up. Then you have some eyewitness accounts notably from Sonderkommandos. There is more. It isn't that simple to just pose a question like that.

What are some things from Cole's video that made you question then?

In any regards, I don't think this thread is entirely appropriate on this forum. General questions and topics are not condoned here and the question is actually more general then you might think.

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Eric Hunt » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:08 am)

Did you tour the fake gas chamber with the doors made of easily breakable wood and glass?

Did they tell you that making that building appear to be a gas chamber was a Soviet post-war creation?
Watch THE TREBLINKA ARCHAEOLOGY HOAX

http://holocausthoaxmuseum.com/treblinka-archaeology-hoax

Semitism = Jewish Supremacism

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby The Warden » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:14 am)

Instead of asking for evidence one way or the other, why not take the evidence presented as fact by the people who claim they existed and scrutinize it thoroughly?
If you believe the evidence is infallible, you'll know which side of the aisle to stand on.

I predict you'll be back here arguing against the existence of gas chambers after the process is complete.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Graceee » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:32 am)

I went with a group called lessons from Auschwitz. they take 200 students from England each year to Auschwitz specifically to educate us. I suspect they told us about deniers to make sure we never become them ourselves.

The things in the video which made me start questioning the gas chambers are the things such as the lack of blue stains, the door and the fact that some of it was reconstructed.

The tour guide only explained to us what we already would have known and because at the time I went I hadn't had any reason to question anything I didn't ask her anything which might have given away the truth.

I think I will have to find more evidence because everyone on here is convinced the whole thing is a lie but what I don't understand is why so many governments would lie to us. obviously I'm a beginner in this subject and need to do a lot more research.

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Kageki » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:38 am)

I think this is interesting. It's about the selection process at Auschwitz:
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitz ... ction.html

There were people that actually survived gas chambers. They were literally gassed, but pulled out and saved in the last minute. From what I can tell a substantial amount of evidence for gas chambers is based on testimonies like this and also from Nazis themselves like Hoess. The thousands of survivor testimonies that people like to mention as evidence.

So here you go. Some evidence for gas chambers at Auschwitz.

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby SevenUp » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:12 am)

Graceee wrote:So I'm new to this Forum but I find the whole idea of the holocaust interesting.
I've recently returned from Auschwitz concentration camp where I was told about holocaust deniers and I decided to research what they were all about and I found this site. I've been looking through many of the posts on here and I'm sorry if this has already been asked but I want to know about the gas chambers. I would like unbiased evidence for if the Nazis did or didn't use gas chambers. If anyone could help me out with this I would be really grateful because I'm hooked on finding out weather they really did use them :)
Thanks for reading :)


There are three points to be made:

1. The gas chambers are preposterous, on their faces. There are only two 'homicidal gas chambers' that are shown to the public, the one at Auschwitz, and the one at Majdanek. You can see photos of both here http://www.holohoax101.com/ Note - both have plate glass windows, it doesn't get any more absurd than that. Scrapbookpages.com reports that a guard was asked about the windows and why the prisoners didn't escape when the gas was administered, the guard replied that a Nazi was stationed outside the room with a gun to shoot anyone who broke the glass. It's completely absurd.

The gas chambers are absurd for other reasons as well - the initial reports, for example out of Dachau, was that the gas was piped in through shower fixtures. But that 'mechanism' for administering the gas could not be sustained, because no plausible way for generating the gas and blowing it through the pipes could be dreamed up. So, a second mechanism was invented, that cyanide pellets used for disinfection were thrown into the room from chutes in the ceiling. The only, ONLY, physical evidence for this mechanism is the chutes in the Auschwitz gas chamber. There is NO other physical evidence for gassing. And, as we now know, the chutes were added to the room by the Soviets/Poles after the war. The only physical evidence for the gas chambers is not evidence for the holocaust, but evidence of a hoax.

Then there is the use of a commercial insecticide, Zyklon B, to kill the Jews. Zyklon was slow release pellets that took one hour to dispense the gas they contained when the temperature was around 70 deg. F, and longer in colder temperatures. It had a warning scent added to alert the persons using it. It is completely inappropriate for gassing people. It would be as if the US army wanted to gas millions of people, and the best they could do was to use Raid room bombs purchased at WalMart.

Then there is the numbers, the consensus of the hoax is that 10,000 Jews per day were gassed at Auschwitz (and Treblinka too), and the idea that 10,000 peopled could be herded into the hoax gas chambers, gassed, taken out, the room cleaned for the next batch, etc., is completely preposterous.

Then there is the problem of getting rid of the 10,000 corpses per day in crematoriums. Another absurdity.

2. Since the hoax gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek were obviously never used to gas people because they have plate glass windows, anyone who claims that they were used to gas people is a degenerate liar the likes of which the world has never before seen. This includes the USHMM, Yad Vashem, the Auschwitz and Majdanek museum authorities, and the whole holohoax establishment.

3. The fact is people are shown the hoax gas chambers at Auschwitz and Majdanek every day, look at the windows, and yet believe the tour guides that these rooms were used to gas people. This shows that if the government, and all the authorities, and endless propaganda, are used to sell a lie, the people will believe the lie even when confronted with obvious physical proof seen with their own eyes that the lie is false.

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby The Warden » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 10:58 am)

Kageki wrote:I think this is interesting. It's about the selection process at Auschwitz:
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/auschwitz ... ction.html

There were people that actually survived gas chambers. They were literally gassed, but pulled out and saved in the last minute. From what I can tell a substantial amount of evidence for gas chambers is based on testimonies like this and also from Nazis themselves like Hoess. The thousands of survivor testimonies that people like to mention as evidence.

So here you go. Some evidence for gas chambers at Auschwitz.


I survived an invisible alien abduction. I said so.
Prove me wrong.

The key is to focus on the ones that allegedly died from gas chambers. Where are they?
Anyone can "survive" anything. What's next? I survived cancer because I never had it? I survived the earthquake and tsunami in Japan because I was on the other side of the Earth?

This is all about the maintaining of the victim status.
There's simply too much at stake for them to come clean at this point.
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Graceee » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:11 pm)

You are all making very valid points but what I don't understand is what would make people lie about it in the first place? that might be a stupid question, but I don't see the point in either side lying, do you know what I mean?

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:36 pm)

SevenUp

An excellent overall summing up, so forgive me if I disagree with you on an issue of detail.

I thought the same as you about the gas chamber capacity, but I've been reading recently -- I'm sorry I can't give precise references but I think on Inconvenient History -- that in fact, in both Auschwitz and the Reinhard camps, the "gas chambers" could have coped adequately, to the point even that the second block at Treblinka would not have been needed, so that the allegation that it was needed and built actually supports Revisionism. The bottleneck was the cremation installations. The mismatch between the capacities of the "gas chambers" and the cremation installations is ludicrous.

If I find the reference I'll come back with it.

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby trevor » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:15 pm)

Graceee wrote:You are all making very valid points but what I don't understand is what would make people lie about it in the first place? that might be a stupid question, but I don't see the point in either side lying, do you know what I mean?


There are not so many liars. There are not so many people claiming they have actually SEEN the gassings themselves. They all just heard about it.
Even witnesses that claimed they have seen it, when interrogated in the court cases with the holocaust deniers had to admit they have only heard about it.

In Nuremberg trials, nobody cross-examined the witnesses and hearsay was allowed as evidence.
Normally it is a criminal offense to lie when you are a witness in a court case but it was not at the Nuremberg trials.
There are very few individuals claiming to have seen gassings. We even learned at school that the reason why there are almost no direct witnesses is because the Nazis killed them all.

Lots of witnesses are dramatizing, exaggerating and describing something they have only heard about as a fact. Some invented lies.

Gassings were one of many wide spread rumors running in the camps and even outside the camps (just like the one about making soap out of Jews).

Read this testimony to learn how everybody arriving to Auschwitz was immediately indoctrinated with the gassing story:


From the Testimony of Jeanne Levy
About the First Time She Heard that People are Being Gassed in
Auschwitz-Birkenau

http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micr ... 204174.pdf



Once they believed the mass hysteria gassing story, a mere showering became “ I have just escaped the death by gassing”

From the Testimony of Judith Becker on Surviving the Gas
Chamber

And by a miracle again, instead of the gas came the water. Later on it turned out that he had switched on the Zyclon and the delivery system had been damaged and it didn't come so instead, the other valve opened up and the water came.
http://www1.yadvashem.org/odot_pdf/Micr ... 204238.pdf


Lots of people died in Auschwitz. The Death Book recorded over 70 000 death in Auschwitz. They died of diseases, malnutrition , natural causes, some were shot etc. The inmates must have seen piles of dead bodies all the time. They believed the widely spread rumor that those bodies were gassed.

The reason why so many perpetrators admitted to it is very simple. Either it was tortured out of them or they were blackmailed (most of them had families). They were said that by admitting the guilt they would escape a death penalty (we know this has been used in the US judicial system up to this day). The Nuremberg trials did not investigate whether the crime happened or not. It only “investigated” how much the accused were involved in the crime. Their only way out was to admit the crime and say they had nothing to do with it or it was an order etc. They did it en mass to save themselves from the gallows or their families from being handed over to the Russians etc.

That is why you hear so much bullshit stories in their affidavits. Hoess admitting to have gassed 3 million Jews in Auschwitz (while only 1 300 000 people were deported there in total ,according to the current official story) , Hoess visiting Treblinka II in 1941 ( it didn't exist yet). Or read the Kurt Gerstein´s affidavits. You will see what kind of fairy tale that is.

Those who refused to admit the guilt were found dead.

The only defendant who did not appear at the Frankfurt Auschwitz Trial in 1963 was Richard Baer, the successor of Rudolf Höss as commandant of Auschwitz. Though in perfect health, he died suddenly in prison before the trial had begun, "in a highly mysterious way" according to the newspaper; Deutsche Wochenzeitung (July 27th, 1973). Baer's sudden demise before giving evidence is especially strange, since the Paris newspaper Rivarol recorded his insistence that "during the whole time in which he governed Auschwitz, he never saw any gas chambers nor believed that such things existed," and from this statement nothing would dissuade him.

Or read about Thies Christophersen who was a German army officer in the Auschwitz camp and wrote the book "The Auschwitz Lie"
http://www.whale.to/b/christophersen_h.html

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Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby castlewarden » 9 years 8 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:35 pm)

Hello Graceee, I am also new in this forum.

I will try to give an overview in as few words as possible:
There is no physical evidence to support the gassing claim and no documents speaking of gassing people or giving an order to do it. Instead the setup of the facilities in those camps suggest that these were just ordinary labour camps and transit camps with the usual disinfection facilities (for delousing the belongings of the inmates, standard procedure since the late 19th century because of Typhus and other contagious illnesses) and gas-tight air raid shelters and crematories (usual in every large city).

The documentary evidence shows that the policy of the German government towards the Jews was this:
since the Nuremberg Laws 1935
- disfranchisement,
- stripping of citizenship
- encouragement to leave Germany

since 1939
- set up of ghettos in occupied Poland and Bohemia/Moravia protectorate

since 1940
- after victory over France idea to ship all Jews to French colony Madagascar, was abandoned because the huge UK sea power made it impossible, and the UK government did not agree to any peace

since 1941
- idea to settle the Jews in Baltikum, Belarus, Ukraine instead
- deportation of Jews into those areas
- because of the war against the USSR more workers were needed, Jews able to work were kept in labour camps, those unable to work were sent to the East, hence the "selections"

Evidence put forward to support the gassing claim consists of these two: 1. Testimonies of a few dozen "witnesses" and "confessions" of defendants. 2. Documents which speak of ordering, construction of and payment for gas-related equipment, namely the above mentioned delousing facilities and air raid shelters.

The statements of these few dozen claimants of mass gassings are all known by name and content. Each contains physical impossibilities and contradictions and has been thoroughly debunked multiple times.

The gassing claim developed over time. In June 1942 the BBC broadcasted it all over Europe. The Soviets also had an interest in keeping the claim alive to divert attention from their atrocity at Katyn. However, the World Zionist Jews at the time most probably believed it. I am convinced that they sincerely believe it. Since then it has developed into a cult, a quasi-religion.


In contrast to the claimed non-existant killing policy towards Jews there was a real one: The T4 "euthanasia" killing policy towards uncurably ill people. It exists the order from Hitler from 1939. When it became public knowledge in Germany in 1941 it was condemned by church officials and Hitler stopped the T4 program.
"Each and every component that makes up your life experience is drawn to you by the powerful Law of Attraction’s response to the thoughts you think and the story you tell about your life." Abraham Hicks


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