I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
SevenUp
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 255
Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2009 2:54 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby SevenUp » 9 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 6:25 pm)

Graceee wrote:You are all making very valid points but what I don't understand is what would make people lie about it in the first place? that might be a stupid question, but I don't see the point in either side lying, do you know what I mean?


I know what you mean, it's a good question. To understand why they lied you have to know who was lying and why. The liars were Jews. The why is Zionism, a movement begun by the Jews in the late 1800s with the goal of resettling the Jews in Palestine. They started telling lies about massacres of Jews in 1906, and in fact there is a NYT article by a Jewish writer claiming the the Russians were systematically exterminating six million Jews in 1906 ! Let's see if we can google up the link.... (my computer is slow now, will have to wait on this one.) There were many articles in the NYT during WW I, that's ONE, claiming that millions of Jews were being killed in Europe. There is a book where many of these articles are reprinted, 'The First Holocaust, Jewish Fund Raising Campaigns with Holocaust Claims During World War I' by Don Heddesheimer, this book is a must read, available on amazon.com. The same liars from the WW I hoaxes were around at the start of WW II, and many had connections with the Roosevelt administration and the NYT, and the lies began with the start of the war. This is documented in 'The Hoax of the Twentieth Century' by Arthur Butz.

The payoff from the lies cannot be overestimated. The Zionists used the holocaust lies to blackmail the European nations into creating a state for Jews only on Palestinian land. Then there has been the endless payments of reparations and aid, both monetary and military. The hoax has cost the west literally trillions of dollars. What a payoff !
Last edited by SevenUp on Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:03 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Kageki
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:39 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Kageki » 9 years 7 months ago (Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:49 pm)

Graceee wrote:You are all making very valid points but what I don't understand is what would make people lie about it in the first place? that might be a stupid question, but I don't see the point in either side lying, do you know what I mean?


I just have an objection that both sides are lying. Are you or David Cole lying? No. You are questioning. That's how denial all started. The base of it was questions. Not lying.

In a way I don't understand why you would ask about the point of lying. Some survivors have been conclusively outed to be lying even by the mainstream media. The question to me first of all is are they really lying? This is in essence what happens in any court and the point of cross examining witnesses. Can't the Nazis also lie? Sure. According to Nick Terry any Nazi that denied the Holocaust are lying because they had a reason to lie about their own crimes. I presume that reason sort of makes sense to you? So how about for survivors? Do they have a reason to lie? They were imprisoned so wouldn't they have a reason to lie or at least exaggerate? Sure they do.

Do you believe some of these people actually survived a gassing according to their own testimony?

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:07 am)

Hi Graceee and welcome.

On lying. It is hard to look at someone speaking and to think that what they are saying may not be true, But eyewitness evidence is given very low priority in courts of law. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyewitness_testimony

There is also False Memory Syndrome:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_memory_syndrome. A leading expert on this is Elizabeth Loftus, Jewish by birth. She was prepared to give evidence in support of John Demjaniuk (i.e. that his accusers' allegations were not sufficiently reliable) in his trial in Israel, but gave in to pressures which I think we can all understand.

It is not only a matter of lying, i.e. complete invention, but also of exaggeration, embroidering, misinterpretation or selectivity. Anyone who has ever had to justify themselves in something like an insurance claim can understand this.

There is strong motivation in terms of attention and money to tell a nice Holocaust story, and several fraudsters are already publicly exposed. Examples are Binjamin Wilkomirski, Herman Rosenblatt and Misha Defonseca. (Google them).

And testimony, of a very small number of individuals, much, possibly most of it, via Soviet propaganda sources, or else from prisoners in custody, is what the Holocaust story stands on. Documentary evidence is weak and concrete evidence non-existent.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10151
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Hannover » 9 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 24, 2011 2:18 pm)

Gracee, you said:
... but what I don't understand is what would make people lie about it in the first place?

You must consider the fact that there were thousands upon thousands of 'eyewitnesses' and 'confessions' to witchcraft and sorcery. Witchcraft and sorcery were determined in official state courts to be scientific fact.



The question you are really asking is 'why do people lie?'

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Goethe
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 378
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:41 am

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Goethe » 9 years 7 months ago (Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:16 pm)

Here are some interesting items to chew on.

“...most of the memoirs and reports [of 'Holocaust survivors'] are full of preposterous verbosity, graphomanic exaggeration, dramatic effects, overestimated self-inflation, dilettante philosophizing, would-be lyricism, unchecked rumors, bias, partisan attacks...”

—Samuel Gringauz, "Jewish Social Studies" (New York), January 1950, Vol. 12, p. 65.


This a post by Hannover:
Let's look at the specifics of so called 'eyewitnesses', here are just a few examples.

I challenge anyone to post what they believe to be credible eyewitness statements on the alleged gas chambers for discussion here.

- "eyewitness" Wiernik claimed:
1200 people fit into a 7 X 7 m gas chamber, bodies of women were used for kindling, bodies burned on their own once lit, he saw a naked Jewish girl jump a 3m (9 ft.) high fence & shoot two guards, that 900,000 Jews were gassed..buried..exhumed..cremated & all traces disappeared, a Russian diesel tank engine was used for gassings.
Wiernik also claimed he saw a naked Jewish girl leap over a three-meter (9 ft.) high barbed wire fence, wrench the rifle out of the hands of a pursuing guard, shoot two other guards before she was overpowered.

- in court, 3/46, Charles Bendel said groups of 1000 Jews where killed with Zyklon-B in a room measuring 10 meters long by 4 meters wide by 1.6 meters high. When asked, how 1000 people can possibly fit in to a room of 64 square meters, he answered, with 'the German method'.

- Bendel testified that 1 million were gassed at Birkenau from January 1, 1944 to Jan 18, 1945. The latest number (which has changed constantly), now says 1.25 million were gassed for the entire duration of the war. They also say the alleged gassings ceased 11/44. Once again, they can't keep their lies straight

- An "eyewitness" stated that the alleged poison gas had a delayed action, it allowed the victims to leave the gas chambers and walk to the mass graves by themselves - from: Repts. of the Polish Underground, Archiv der Polnischen Vereinigten Arbeiterpartei, 202/III,v.7,pp.120f.,quoted in: P. Longerich, op. cit.(note 271), p. 438.

- So called 'eyewitness' Daniel Bennahmias claimed the alleged gas chambers walls were PAINTED after each gassing. Well, even if true, that would simply 'lock in' the HCN in the mortar and concrete. There is no significant cyanide residue to be found which would indicate mass gassings as alleged. He also claims that he was one of the alleged 'sonderkommandos'; they were supposedly in charge of moving bodies from the alleged gas chambers. The story goes that all sonderkommandos were murdered in order to silence them.
Peculiar, Daniel Bennahmias was not killed and was in fact given a choice of staying in Auschwitz to await the 'liberating' Soviets, or to leave with the SS in retreat; he chose to go with the SS.

- According to Alexander Pechersky, gassings at Sobibor took place via a black heavy substance which exited in spirals from holes in the roof. Then the floor of the gas chamber opened up, and the bodies fell directly into wagons placed in the basement.

- Filip Mueller, whose laughable beststeller "Sonderbehandlung" Raul Hilberg quotes no less than 20 times as a source in his standard work about the "Holocaust" - described how he ate cake in a cyanide-saturated gas chamber

- Former inmate, Moshe Peer, recalled a miraculous escape from death as an eleven-year-old in the camp. In a 1993 interview with a Canadian newspaper, the French-born Peer claimed that he "was sent to the camp gas chamber at least six times...maybe children resist better, I don't know." Gazette, Montreal, Canada, August 5, 1993

- The vacuum chamber...former Treblinka prisoner Samuel Rajzman testified that during the time he was in Treblinka, Jews were "suffocated to death" there with a machine that pumped air out of death chambers. {Rajzman text in: Yuri Suhl, ed., They Fought Back (New York: 1967), p. 130.}

- 'eyewitness' Arnold Friedman's stated that he (and four others at the same time) 'survived' by breathing through a keyhole in the 'gas chamber' door at FLOSSENBERG.

- Ada Bimko (now Hadassah Rosensaft of the Holocaust Memorial Museum, Washington DC): she testified to being shown by an SS officer the huge cylinders of gas in a room above the gas chamber!

- Auschwitz inmate, Regina Bialek stated: I was made to undress and taken by lorry to a gas chamber. There were seven gas chambers at Auschwitz. This particular one was underground and the lorry was able to run down the slope and straight into the chamber. Here we were tipped unceremoniously on the floor. The room was about 12 yards square and small lights on the wall dimly illuminated it. When the room was full a hissing sound was heard coming from the centre point on the floor and gas came into the room. After what seemed about ten minutes some of the victims began to bite their hands and foam at the mouth, and blood issued from their ears, eyes and mouth, and their faces went blue. I suffered from all these symptoms, together with a tight feeling at the throat. I was half conscious when my number was called out by Dr. Mengele and I was led from the chamber. I attribute my escape to the fact that the daughter of a friend of mine who was an Aryan and a doctor at Auschwitz had seen me being transported to the chamber and had told her mother, who immediately appealed to Dr. Mengele.

- In the book, 'Lest We Forget', it describes how Jews were steamed to death, and provides a diagram showing the location of the purported boiler room that produced the live steam. - 'Lest We Forget', World Jewish Congress (New York: 1943), pp.4, 6-7.

- The Polish govt. "conclusively proved" the Germans operated steam death chambers. They carried out "an on site, expert examination of the steam chambers," submitting an "expert report" to the Nuremberg Tribunal.- Nuremberg Trial Document 3311-PS, IMT "blue series"/1947-1949), vol.32, pp.152-158

- Here's more real 'evidence' - Killing in vacuum chamber, with steam, or chlorine gas -----from: W. Grossmann, Die Hölle von Treblinka, Verlag für fremdsprachige Literatur, Moscow 1947; The Black Book of Polish Jewry, Roy Publishers, New York 1943.

- "There was a blue haze after gassing with hydrocyanic acid" (which is colorless) - R. Böck, Frankfurt Public Prosecutor's Office, Ref. 4 Js 444/59, pp. 6881f.

- “In retreat the stationary gas chambers in the eastern part of the camp were restructured, even little turrets and other architectural embellishments were added so that they would look like innocent garages." - ‘The Factory of Death at Auschwitz’ Boris Polevoi, Pravda, 1945

- Communist Jew, Bruno Baum, himself a member of the 'partisans', boasted after the war: "The entire propaganda which started abroad, was made by us with the help of our Polish mates." - Bruno Baum, »Wir funken aus der Hölle« in Deutsche Volkszeitung - Zentralorgan der KPD, Berlin 31.7.1945.; cf. B. Baum

- Elan Steinberg, Executive Director of the World Jewish Congress when discussing accusations of atrocities against Germans:
"The problem is, when you investigate something as serious as this, you can not rely on eyewitnesses who, even with the best of intentions, with the best of intentions, can give you misleading information".

- David Greenburg, reviewing the memoirs of John Toland in the NY Times Book Review- 10-19-97:
"It is not necessary to wonder how, technically, such mass murder was possible. It was technically possible because it took place."
"It is fitting for us to simply repeat this truth: there is not and cannot be any debate on the existence of the gas chambers."

- "…It is not necessary to ask oneself how, technically, such a mass murder was possible. It was technically possible since it took place. Such is the point of departure required of any historical enquiry on the subject. This truth obliges us to state quite simply: there is not, there cannot be, any debate on the existence of the gas chambers." - from a declaration, published in Le Monde, feb 21, 1979. Written by Pierre Vidal-Naquet and Léon Poliakov. And signed by 34 "historians"

And so it goes with each and every 'eyewitness' to alleged gassings and their supporters. Their stories are patently absurd; but if you don't believe them you could go to jail.

- Hannover

Add to all this a real classic:
These Holocaust deniers are very slick people. They justify everything they say with facts and figures.

- Steven Some, Chairman of the New Jersey Commission on Holocaust Education, Newark Star-Ledger, 23 Oct. 1996, p 15.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

trevor
Member
Member
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby trevor » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:31 pm)

Jewish men in the Hallein displaced persons' camp bury bars of soap believed to be made from human fat. [Photograph #48966]
http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarc ... talog.aspx
type 48966 into the database to view the photo


The soap made of Jews story was just a legend and that is officially admitted nowadays. The legend ran already during the WWI and then again during the WWII. It was presented at The Nuremberg trials. Everybody believed it.

Now do the men from the photo above lie (they know the soap story is not true) or do they just fell for the propaganda that was spread and they really believed it?

I think they fell for the propaganda and they really believed they were burying soap made of Jews.

The Holocaust story is a mixture of truth, dramatization, total out of proportion exaggeration, tons of hearsay and also total lies.

Some of those lies were invented on purpose by war propaganda, some were just rumors/legends that naturally occurred in the camps, some were invented during or after the war as a revenge by the inmates, some by attention and fame seeking individuals, some for financial gain, some to keep the gloriole of unique, eternal victimhood of jews going on, some for zionist purposes etc

Zyklon B was used in the camps for killing typhus spreading insects. It is quite likely that most inmates had no idea about its real purpose and when they saw this in the camp:
http://en.auschwitz.org.pl/m/index.php? ... 4&Itemid=3
they genuinely believed it is used to poison inmates.

Especially if they also saw piles of dead bodies near crematoria which they must have seen since lots of people died in the camps.

I do not know if the legend of gas chambers was deliberately started by propaganda or whether it somehow came to life by itself and it spread and spread and everybody believed it and it was fed until it became an indisputable “fact” punished by years of prison if you doubt it.

The Warden
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 436
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:28 pm
Location: 'Murica!

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby The Warden » 9 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 25, 2011 6:55 pm)

trevor wrote:I do not know if the legend of gas chambers was deliberately started by propaganda or whether it somehow came to life by itself and it spread and spread and everybody believed it and it was fed until it became an indisputable “fact” punished by years of prison if you doubt it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave
Why the Holocaust Industry exists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2A81P6YGw_c

Kageki
Member
Member
Posts: 107
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:39 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Kageki » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 01, 2011 8:55 am)

Who actually operated the gas chambers at Auschwitz?

User avatar
Balsamo
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 305
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 1:44 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Balsamo » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:33 am)

since 1940
- after victory over France idea to ship all Jews to French colony Madagascar, was abandoned because the huge UK sea power made it impossible, and the UK government did not agree to any peace


Actually, the Madagascar plan was anterior to the defeat of France. It was already discussed long before the war by Polish diplomats. The Nazis liked the idea too. And at some point the French too.

since 1941
- idea to settle the Jews in Baltikum, Belarus, Ukraine instead
- deportation of Jews into those areas
- because of the war against the USSR more workers were needed, Jews able to work were kept in labour camps, those unable to work were sent to the East, hence the "selections"


Even if one agrees with that. What comes next.
Since 1942, Since 1943?

Would the germans really sent Jews (considered as ennemies and partisans to soon to be "liberated by the red army" areas?)
And why depite all the Jews captured was Speer always crying for the lack of Manpower in his armement factories?

There is not much to add regarding to the Gas chambers stories in itselves as it is based on the definition of proofs. Confessions? of course not, witnesses ? they are all lairs ? But then how are we supposed to listen to a witness that denies the existance of gas chambers? At best, in Chess it would be PAT!

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 10151
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Hannover » 9 years 6 months ago (Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:48 pm)

Notice how Balsamo dodges debate on the alleged 'gas chambers', the topic of this thread. Come on, Balsamo, what are you afraid of? Tell us how they supposedly worked, show us the human remains. Tell us which of the 'eyewitness' you find credible. I'm calling your bluff, let's get to it.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

trevor
Member
Member
Posts: 125
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:01 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby trevor » 9 years 6 months ago (Sat Apr 02, 2011 4:40 pm)

one other in Majdanek wich was not much used neither.


Balsamo, did you for example ask yourself a question how come that the alleged gas chamber in Majdanek ,which was as you correctly pointed out not used much, has extremely strong Prussian Blue stains inside and a little even on the outside wall, whereas the alleged gas chambers in Crema II and III in Birkenau that were allegedly very heavily used have NO stains and they have such minuscule levels of cyanide residues that the cyanide residues found by Rudolf in the inmate barracks were basically the same as in the alleged gas chambers ?

Many aspects of alleged Majdanek gas chambers are too crazy for words. So crazy that believers prefer not to talk about Majdanek, pretending it will just go away. Otherwise they would have to admit it was just a fumigation chamber. It is already extremely embarrassing they had to reduce the death toll in Majdanek from several millions to cca 75 000.


And yes, you can certainly convince us that the H happened. We do not ask anything special. We want answers to the questions that are routinely asked in every murder case.

User avatar
Kingfisher
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1673
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 4:55 pm

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby Kingfisher » 9 years 6 months ago (Mon Apr 04, 2011 4:16 pm)

Kingfisher wrote:SevenUp

An excellent overall summing up, so forgive me if I disagree with you on an issue of detail.

I thought the same as you about the gas chamber capacity, but I've been reading recently -- I'm sorry I can't give precise references but I think on Inconvenient History -- that in fact, in both Auschwitz and the Reinhard camps, the "gas chambers" could have coped adequately, to the point even that the second block at Treblinka would not have been needed, so that the allegation that it was needed and built actually supports Revisionism. The bottleneck was the cremation installations. The mismatch between the capacities of the "gas chambers" and the cremation installations is ludicrous.

If I find the reference I'll come back with it.


This is the reference to the AR camps. http://www.inconvenienthistory.com/archive/2011/volume_3/number_1/gassing_burning_and_burying.php

Plenty of people have commented on the mismatch at Auschwitz with 2000 peole allegedly killed at a time

User avatar
castlewarden
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:17 am

Re: I'm after some answers / 'gas chambers'

Postby castlewarden » 9 years 6 months ago (Wed Apr 06, 2011 2:27 pm)

since 1941
- idea to settle the Jews in Baltikum, Belarus, Ukraine instead
- deportation of Jews into those areas
- because of the war against the USSR more workers were needed, Jews able to work were kept in labour camps, those unable to work were sent to the East, hence the "selections"



Even if one agrees with that. What comes next.
Since 1942, Since 1943?

Would the germans really sent Jews (considered as ennemies and partisans to soon to be "liberated by the red army" areas?)
And why depite all the Jews captured was Speer always crying for the lack of Manpower in his armement factories?


The Jews were sent to the East in the belief that the war against the USSR would be won soon. When the Red Army advanced West both many of the local population (Ukrainians, Belarusians) and the deported Jews were evacuated to the West.


There is not much to add regarding to the Gas chambers stories in itselves as it is based on the definition of proofs. Confessions? of course not, witnesses ? they are all lairs ? But then how are we supposed to listen to a witness that denies the existance of gas chambers? At best, in Chess it would be PAT!


Witnesses are not as important as physical and circumstantial evidence.
Therefore:
- the physical evidence of the facilities,
- the document record,
- the non-existing massgraves/mountains of ash,
- the millions of survivors,
- the threat of career destruction, prison or even physical harm against everyone who questions the Holocaust dogma

point to one conclusion: It did not happen. There was no "industrial mass-killing program". It is a delusion.
"Each and every component that makes up your life experience is drawn to you by the powerful Law of Attraction’s response to the thoughts you think and the story you tell about your life." Abraham Hicks


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests